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USB cable comparisons


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This is my first post on CAP and I'll admit having read only parts of the thread, so will toss in another cable option blindly and w/o a lot of comparisons under my belt: Ultra Fi Basque Usartza. For the past year I had been using a direct USB two-adapter connection to John Kenny's Ciunas dac, taking suggestion that would be best (it also has a USB powered isolated battery line). When I swapped in the Usartza with its separate data/power lines, also leaving the Ciunas power line connected on a different hub, the Ciunas found a whole new existence, coming alive in a way I'd never heard before. Swapping out the Cuinas for a beta dac that came along with the cable took things to whole other better. I think there have been other threads about Larry Moore's designs under the Ultra Fi brand and others, but I'm not sure if the USB cable has been discussed or evaluated (I won't claim this is one). It is definitely worth consideration, tho. I think it runs around $550 for 1m.

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One thing to be aware of is that Mapleshade's cables have long been consciously designed to have a "leading edge" sound. That may or may not be to your liking (not to mine). If I weren't already using the Ultra Fi USB cable, I'd take a look at Elijah Audio's offerings - Elijah Audio - Products. Michael makes quality USB cables at a good price. Good reviews and customer comments.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I mentioned I would give an update when I received the Elijah Quad Braid USB cable so people would have some more info when looking to buy. As I mentioned earlier I was using the Audioquest Coffee and I liked it, but didn't love it so I wanted to try some other USB cables. I took Jud, Blake and Reverendo's advice and tried out the Mapleshade Clearview Plus and immediately it was much better than the Coffee minus the fact that I wasn't in love with the bass.

...but if you can swing the price go with Elijah cables as it is well worth the extra cash as I was comparing a non burnt in version vs. the Mapleshade with over 125 hours on it. Well done Michael and thanks to highstream for the recommendation!!

Glad it worked out well. I had paid for Michael's single line, no power Cu version, then another option - the Ultra Fi Usartza - came into my lap as part of a package deal and that's worked out well. Wish it was easier in terms of shipping costs to audition Elijah cables, as well as the Jcat. The Mapleshade should sell quickly.

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Not head to head, but…

 

My dealer first loaned me the standard version. This caused my jaw to drop. If you look at my posts in the Heimdall thread, you will see that it easily beat the other USB cables I compared it to.

 

I later purchased the split leg version, and use it with only one leg connected. I think this may offer a slight improvement over what I heard from the standard version, but it's really hard to say for sure.

 

The key point here though is that the Lightspeed's magic is there even with the standard cable. I don't think it would be correct to think that the Lightspeed's kind of magic will happen simply as a result of preventing the flow of power through another brand of USB cable.

I very much agree with your post about cords and cables. I now use Quad 12L powered speakers and HiDiamond cords/cables and more, so the cost has been even greater, absolutely and relative to the Ultra Fi beta dac, but it's been well worth it now and I hope as a long term investment.

 

I'm going to repeat that it would be useful to toss the Ultra Fi Usartza USB cable, which is roughly half the price of the Lightspeed, into the fray. Larry Moore is well known for his dac and cable and amp designs, both via Tranquility and on his own.

 

Speaking of split power/data vs. single USB cables, I found that a Ciunas dac, which uses a separate battery power connection, sounded noticeably better with both Usartza lines connected to the computer (along with the battery line) than only the data line. Larry said that's the way the cable is designed. In theory, it should be with the LS as well, but theory doesn't always win out.

 

P.S. Just noticed there's currently a returned Lightspeed demo up on eBay for $100 off (or offer).

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In the spirit of drez's comment, in looking at reviews of the Lightspeed cable I've been disappointed with the lack of specific comparisons, the kind that a reader - or least this one - would want to hear about to get a feel for a cable's presentation style and specific characteristics, and thus how it might fit with one's tastes and in one's system. I don't think it's all that helpful to summarize that a cable is especially fast, detailed, quiet, etc., any more than it is to say that it leaves others on hand in the dust. Perhaps I've missed a review or two, but the only one of the Lightstream I've come across that does make an explicit comparison with a higher end offering, and tells me something about their relative overall presentations in the process, is Doug Blackburn's at UltraAudio. Here's what he has to say:

 

"It was immediately apparent that the AudioQuest Diamond DBS and Light Harmonic LightSpeed sounded different from each other. The AQ had richer harmonics, with rounder, fuller tone from instruments and voices in every octave. But the LightSpeed delivered quieter backgrounds, more air, and an enhanced sense of a live performance in the room. Older, less well-recorded Phil Spector tracks were more enjoyable with the AQ Diamond -- the LightSpeed was a bit tough on them. “Chan Chan,” from Buena Vista Social Club, had more space, air, and presence in the room through the LightSpeed, but the Diamond delivered a wider soundstage and richer harmonics.

 

And for every track, bit depth, and sample rate, the story was the same. Don’t ask me to say that one cable was better than the other. What I really wanted was a cable that combined the LightSpeed’s and the Diamond DBS’s sound characteristics. But both were preferable to the generic cable."

 

SoundStage! Ultra | SoundStageUltra.com (UltraAudio.com) | Light Harmonic LightSpeed USB Cable

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I think discussion about tone control sometimes misses the point. What dooes it mean to "get out of the way?" Each cable has a sonic presentation style and specific characteristics within that (detail, soundstage, noise level, tonality/timbre, etc.). They are intentionally designed that way in terms of what the developer(s) prefer and aspire to, what tradeoffs they make, and what price points and market slots they are aiming at. As a listener and buyer, the question shouldn't be what is the absolute best - that will often lead to disappointment - but rather what each of us prefers and how it fits in our systems. What one person feels is 'getting out of the way,' another will find 'getting in the way,' just as Blackburn describes between the Lightspeed and AQ Diamond. In fact, in a sense the point is what "gets in the way" in the most pleasing way for one's tastes and system. If that weren't the case, the point about hearing it in your system would be irrelevant. That's why I value comparative reviews like Blackburn's; they give me some clues about where to look and maybe what isn't as likely to do as well for me.

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. That wasn't the design goal of the Lightspeed. It was created during the development of the DaVinci DAC to be as neutral as possible.

 

Agree totally. But if a cable really achieved the goal of getting out of the way relative to the competition, wouldn't there really be little for the reviewer to say other than that the cable is transparent?

 

My suggestion to hear it for myself was because I just rarely find value in most reviewer's impressions. There are only 3-4 that I consider consistently trustworthy. I use reviews only to help come up my short list, then use my own ears. I put far more weight on impressions of friends and some folks here who seem reliable.

 

Not easy to reply with a quote in this small box. So, in order...

 

- Yes, "neutral" relative to what the developer wanted out of the DaVinci, which means complementing the DaVinci's way in a desired way, what you call "getting out of the way." A lot of qualifiers in there. It's the paradox of design.

 

- There are two senses here: transparent, as you note, and complementing the other parts of the system the listener is using the best. Of course, that assume the listener knows what the other components are meant to sound like, which is not necessarily the case.

 

- I'm of the same view with regard to picking reviewers. Unfortunately, those favorites don't always review what I'm looking at. While I haven't read Blackburn before, I liked that he was explicit about what each cable did relative to the other, capturing the whole and not just the parts. I wouldn't be surprised if sitting next to him I came up with similar perceptions. Compare that with most of the other Lightspeed reviews, which are descriptive, pretty much one dimensional.

 

What I'm avoiding here is the question of "absolute sound," i.e., relative to live performance, what Harry Pearson's been chasing for a long time. I haven't listened to the top expensive systems, although I would think that to find that synchronicity is beyond theoretical capabilities. At my level, compromises are a fact of life, as few as possible of course.

 

Thanks to ELF for the reference, but which issue?

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I thought I had done exactly the kind of comparison that you are looking for with the purist ultimate. Did you have a look at it?

[not sure why I haven't seen posts for the past week on "instantly"]

I don't know where your Pursit ultimate review is and am not clear what it has to do with Lightspeed cable reviews. Please clarify.

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here is my direct comparison

and here is the comparison between the Ultimate and the Diamond for some perspective.

Well yes, with no disrespect I did miss your posts #316 and #303. While I was speaking about professional reviews, your #316 post does compare the Lightspeed with another, although unfortunately there's no way to combine your two reviews. My point was that the professional reviewers had more than one cable around and for some reason didn't compare them with the Lightspeed, which left their reviews "one dimensional."

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I understand. :)

OTOH, I'm probably one of the few that have had the most USB cables here at home, although I never had more than four to compare side-by-side. I think you'll find them at least enlightening in one way or the other and will give you and overall view of subjective analysis in the same system. Personally, I have my own difficulties with professional reviews, although I must admit that Michael's impressions are almost exactly the same that I had had in my system with the same cables. The system, though, was pretty different.

Of course, YMMV.

Did you compare the Lightspeed with any others? Are you speaking of a Michael here or the reviewer Lavorgna? The latter's review speaks to everything but timbre/tonality, which is a big omission. For me, well-presented comparisons help illuminate the big picture about how a component/cable sound, while also shedding light on the reviewer's tastes and thoughtfulness.

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I use it with only the data (music) leg plugged in to my computer and I leave the power leg unplugged.

Did you listen both ways? I noted earlier that my Ciunas dac, even with a separate 5v battery line plugged in, sounded better with the USB power line hooked up too.

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You are still using the shield of the cable for the 0 volts lead, as the o volts black wire and shield are usually connected together internally at the device end. If the PC uses a connection to mains earth, this will then cause some degradation due to RF/EMI

I was having an exchange tonight with the Ciunas dac developer and this discussion came up. His thoughts are on it are...

"My take on what is happening is that by connecting the power line side of the cable you are getting a better (lower resistance) ground connection back to the PC."

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  • 1 month later...

It seems system dependent, how it meshes with the sound tendencies of the other components. I saw a review or comment here or elsewhere the other day that said in his system the WW sounded better than the Lightspeed. And yes, the GTX, in my case the Rhodium, made a very noticeable difference right off, not even burned in, vs. the Maestro. I didn't get the Furutech cover, but put foam between the cover and wall. The Furutech fuses in my Quad powered speakers also made a big difference. Electrician really not needed though, unless one doesn't know where the fuse box is or how to use a screw driver.

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Not sure that it does, unless the 5v signal bouncing back and forth between the USB cable's terminations, but not continuing into DAC's circuitry, is still potentially detrimental to SQ. If this is possible, then I will try what you suggest, and report back.

 

I wouldn't say that lifting the power with the Elijah Isolate had no benefit. That cable itself just sounded bad on my rig, worse than a $10 USB printer cable. Somewhat puzzled by the accolades it has received elsewhere.

I had it here recently as part of the U.S. tour, but due to a switch in dacs used the Quad Braid instead and never heard the Isolate. The Braid was quite decent, especially in tone, tho not nearly at the all around level of the two-leg Ultra Fi one I had been using. I probably noted in an earlier post that when I had the Ciunas dac, with its separate internal battery power supply, I found connecting both legs of the Ultra Fi sounded much better than just the data line.

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What makes this forum so interesting is, apart from the scientific stuff, how our perceptions differ so greatly. I have a NAD M51, too, which doesn't require 5V USB power to function. Curious, I purchased an Elijah Audio Isolate Cu USB 1 meter cable, which has no power leg, to see if the power leads in my regular 1 meter Kimber Kable USB's were degrading the SQ. To my surprise, the $180 Elijah sounded decidedly worse than either the $165 Kimber Ag or the $100 Kimber Cu. In fact, notwithstanding the redundant power lead, the basic copper Kimber sounds the best of the three. The silver Kimber is a shade too bright, and the Elijah just sounded flat and dull (no offense, Michael). I hope the forum member who took it off my hands is liking it more than I did. What matters is that I settled on a cable I really like, even if it is the least expensive one that I tried

 

Exactly which of the Kimber USB cables were you referring to, the B Bus and B Bus AG? The B Bus Cu is $50-$60, not $100 unless for 3m. Kimber Kable and http://www.musicdirect.com/m-139-kimber-kable.aspx. I have a friend auditioning Elijah's Isolate Cu and Quad Braid right now with the Ciunas dac and maybe he should listen to the Kimber's as well.

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  • 1 month later...

I have not tried either of the cables. Why I write is to note that Mapleshade's house sound is intentionally designed to emphasize the "leading edge." I found it unbearable with their AC power distributor. To the extent that it's part of the HDMI Plus cable on a TV, and I'm not sure it is, I have no complaints. But then I haven't compared it with any other brands except Monoprice and OEM.

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All I meant was that with a TV HDMI cable it's hard to know if the same leading edge design was employed, since there's a cable box before and a dac after. All I can say is their cable made a substantial improvement on an already near top of the line Samsung LCD. Re "leading edge" design, it's talked about in this two part review:

ClearView Cables From inSound/Mapleshade by Srajan Ebaen

ClearView Cables From inSound/Mapleshade by Srajan Ebaen

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  • 2 weeks later...

Adam, I've found "over a week" is nothing in terms of burnin. I've rarely had a cable, including USB's, that needed less than 200 hours to even start sounding like what they eventually would, and 275-500 is typical. Impatience is an occupational hazard of audiophiles, not a listening skill.

 

Btw, did you consider an Elijah?

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I've found used cables (and components) typically need a substantial amount of burnin. Typically, the previous owner hasn't used thme for awhile. Just as important, burnin involves the various parts of a system adapting to each other (what the burnin naysayers don't get is that no matter how precisely built each part is, in this world everything adapts to everything else around it; I think of it as sort of a corrollary of the theory of evolution).

 

Elijah makes good lower cost cables. I sent a pair of travelling samples to someone who bought a Ciunas dac, Focal powered speakers and some ICs and power cords from me, and he ended up keeping the powerless model (Cu Isolate - the Ciunas uses a separate battery line). I had tried the split data/power one, the Quad Braid, and found it very decent, though not quite in the class of the $500+ ones. Michael uses Audience OCC cryo treated copper, which is very good stuff, and Cardas solder. He's in Australia, so shipping is a bit more ($20), and there is a return policy. Elijah Audio

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The discussion reminds me one of those burnin-denial threads, where a fellow recounted how his auto engineer dad said that his company's engine part tolerances were manufacturered to .0001 or something even more precise, so breakin wasn't necessary. Missed the point that an engine is a group of parts working together under stress. Move the parts to a different engine, same process. In audio, it strikes me also as a corollary of the point that how equipment sounds is determined by how the pieces fit together. Every piece of used equipment I've purchased over time, which is about half, has required burnin, some up to a couple of weeks. There are some manufacturers that say if a cable hasn't been used for a few days, it requires some re-burnin. So yes, if a friend comes over, before listening I'd do at least a couple of play throughs with one of those burnin tone refresher files, e.g., IsoTek's.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looking at the six USB cable/filter reviews linked at the TotalDac site, one thing that stands out to me is how, unless I missed it, not one speaks to tonality/timbre (starting with warm, dry, in-between, aka neutral). The only mention by one is that it's on the dark side of things, vs. the Lightspeed (which I know well and have qualms about in my system). Do you have anything to offer on that score? And did you find 10 days sufficient for burnin?

 

Btw, Vincent uses FedEx shipping to the US, which is 45E, roughly $60. Renders the return policy effectively meaningless, since both directions together one might as well sell it on the used market.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting, I had never heard of YFS. I've been impressed with the TotalDac1, tho it's not yet fully burned in. JCAT dual-lead USB cable is coming out in October (Marcin of JPlay/JCAT just sold his Totaldac cable - unfortunately not to me).

 

Btw, if you need another power cord, I have a 1.5m Teresonic that I've been wanting to sell. They have the same sound quality as their speaker and interconnect cables, but are not advertised because they're typically made for their speaker/component customers. PM if interested.

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  • 1 month later...

(rewritten) Johan, Not sure what YFS is, and also assuming you're running the Wadia in conjunction with a Macbook Pro, not sure what you're asking. The Wadia manual shows a power plug but doesn't specify the voltage or if it's using an adapter or discuss USB cables. As far as I can tell, you can use a quality USB cable from the Mac and block the power pin easily enough, or get something like an Elijah Isolate cable that doesn't have a power line. Another option is using a separate linear power supply with the correct voltage for the Wadia. That would potentially be a lot cleaner. Perhaps someone with a MacBook Pro experience has some specific suggestions.

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