TEAC UD-501: Dual Mono DAC with DSD Streaming

[tapedur]

[...] There is nothing in the manual saying what DSD files are supported. Or PCM for that matter. I can only assume it will handle any async USB connected library. [...]

 

Is not this the job of the player (interfacing through the drivers)? Foobar will play DSD ISO and ddf files, and JRMC 18, SDS ISO, dsf and ddf, I believe.

[wappinghigh]

^ well yes. That's why we need folks like TedB and Miska to get their hands on one and test the drivers.

[Dj]

I am just curious to know why do we need a pre-amp? The user manual shows on page 8 that you can go straight from Line Out to Stereo amp or powered speaker.

 

http://www.teac-audio.eu/downloads/2...-501__EFS_.pdf

[valenroy]

Great Miska. Thanks!!! If it works with your player that's huge. There is nothing in the manual saying what DSD files are supported. Or PCM for that matter. I can only assume it will handle any async USB connected library. But as most CA veterans here will confess, the proof is in the pudding so to speak

 

As stated in the specs, it handles both dsd64 and dsd128. The type of file it plays is dependent on the software player. I have been using foobar with SACD plugin for windows 8 (via ASIO) and audirvana+ for the Mac side (via DoP1.1 - no drivers needed). Just to clarify, dsd128 is supported via DoP on both platforms.

[valenroy]

Hi, I am new to CA. I contacted Brian Tucker yesterday as Stew suggested (sorry Stew, could not remember at the time who that was that gave the advice...) and he confirmed that he could not sell outside of his area and indicated that the $799 price was a misprint; the actual price is $959. I could not find anybody in my area (SOCAL), using the TEAC dealer locator, who knew anything about this DAC though. I was able to contact a dealer who said that he might be able to order it for me, but that since it was new and he did not know anything about it, he was not committing to have it in stock and I would have to work with TEAC to work out return and support conditions. I guess the product is just too new and it seems that TEAC has not done a good job at getting their act together before offering it in this market.

 

I looked up the English version of the owner's manual that valenroy (thanks!) posted a link to, but could not find anything about how one gets the DAC firmware updated. Is that through the driver software? Does anyone know?

 

Also I installed the TEAC Audio Player (looks nice) and saw that it is only documented in Japanese, which again makes me wonder about TEAC's readiness to support the product.

 

I am afraid that there is no provisions for firmware updates like most mass consumer electronics I guess, unless TEAC comes up with a firmware updater through USB which I highly doubt...

[valenroy]

I am just curious to know why do we need a pre-amp? The user manual shows on page 8 that you can go straight from Line Out to Stereo amp or powered speaker.

 

http://www.teac-audio.eu/downloads/2...-501__EFS_.pdf

 

The volume control on the unit is for headphones only. There is no provision for volume attenuation through the analog outputs, which is why you would need a pre-amp. Unless you choose to go through software attenuation like what Audirvana+ offers with MBit+

[wappinghigh]

At $ 800 who needs a firmware upgrade? It does what it does. If it doesn't and you want to move on its not a big capital outlay. You sell on ebay. So what's the end cost? A couple hundred bucks max? No I think they have pitched this beautifully. You get DSD into your pre and a headphones amp with volume control for $800 !! Nothing more. Nothing less. As I said the real exciting thing is a big Japanese player has taken DSD via USB on board. For $799. Awesome.

[TarnishedEars]

Except that its not selling for $800. Its closer to $1K. But admitedly, as long as they get it right initially, then updates are probably not all that important.

[valenroy]

Hi all, I guess I should provide an update on the listening sessions I have with both the Mytek and TEAC. As I have been using my headphone setup more often than my main rig, I did a comparison between the two that are connected to the Audio-GD NFB6 balanced headphone amp. All connections are balanced and played through the Audez'e LCD-02r2 and foobar via ASIO.

 

I am sure everyone here will be happy to hear this as both DACs sounded more alike than different. But it is not an entirely accurate comparison because of the selectable DSD filters that TEAC offers as each filter has a very slightly different response to the music. Like what I had reported earlier, if you prefer a highly detailed and spacious presentation, filter 2 will be for you. And if you prefer a more balanced sound throughout the spectrum, filter 3 provides for the most comfortable listening experience. Because of the greater gain difference for filter 1 & 4, I haven't really experimented with them much. So as I was saying, both DACs sounded so much alike that if I were to be presented with differentiating both DACs in a blind test, I wouldn't be able to tell them apart or perhaps my hearing is just not that much acute anymore. A fairer comparison will be to use filter 2 on TEAC against the Mytek as Mytek's preparation is one that is more spacious and articulate. And both units sound very much alike in that regard. Personally I prefer filter 3 because of its all rounded presentation.

 

Like what I had mentioned before, if functions like pre-amp, remote, multiple computer inputs, internal clock sync, phase inversion, etc are not needed, the TEAC amounts to a great value for money unit. All one needs is a pair of efficient headphones and one could be very happy with up to 2xDSD and DXD reproduction.

 

Subsequently, if I can get around to hooking both units up to the main rig, I will report back again.

[One and a half]

It's exciting to see that DSD DACs now gaining momentum, the Mytek broke through the price barrier, and with the TEAC breaking further ground. This DAC is typically designed for the audiophile in mind, extra clearances around the power and RCA connectors to fit hawser like cables on is a nice touch. Balanced outputs with selectable hot pins is a great idea, other manufacturers please follow this lead.

 

Am impressed with the dual mono construction and power supplies in a neat well manufactured and presented package. If Valenroy perceives the SQ to be nearly similar to the Mytek, then Teac are on to a winner. Drivers are always an issue, but for OSX, there doesn't seem to be an issue with DOP and USB2.0 to 192. Not so sure on 358 what happens there, though.

 

The only puzzle are the selectable filters to tailor the response for DSD. Noise shaping is very well controlled by Playback Designs and EMM labs gear, there are no user filters to tune (PD designs anyway), so wonder which filter on the Teac to use and why/when. Is this a limitation of the processing inside the TEAC, it's just too hard to provide the 'automatic transmission' at the price and there's a manual option instead analogy. I would be keen to understand how the filters work. The two sample rates for DSD are great to be included especially for 128 and future developments in that regard.

 

Upsampling for PCM to 192 is available to those who want it, but better results are obtained if they are converted to DSD, but it's fine, can use or not, it's up to the user. The PCM 1795 are a bit long in the tooth now, but still can produce stunning sound, after all it's how the DAC chips are incorporated.

 

All this for USD1000 and less, you can't go far wrong can you. Worthwhile to consider this DAC as an starter DAC that will provide enjoyment for many years to come. There are many competitors at this level, Benchmark DAC2 HGC, Mytek of course, all with DSD, and with a few more DSD Dacs coming up after CES, the choice and discussions are many!!

[Miska]

Just to clarify, dsd128 is supported via DoP on both platforms.

 

OK, great, due to 384 PCM support I guess the DoP DSD128 is the "single channel" 05/FA marker and not the 06/F9 marker? I support both, but just wanted to confirm which one is the case here. Is it USB Audio Class 2? IOW, does it work with the OS-supplied driver on OS X? That would indicate that it could work on Linux too.

 

Is there an ASIO DSD capable driver supplied that works with DSD128 too?

 

It is always important to test compatibility with Linux, since there has been some slight compatibility issues in the past between Linux USB Audio Class driver and some specific implementations of USB Audio Class hardware.

 

ASIO is also important to test with applications, because there are slight variations on how ASIO driver has been implemented, and especially with regards to DSD.

 

Another important thing I also want to check out if DSD works at 48k-base rates, meaning 3.0/6.1 MHz. It is nice feature for upsampling from 48/96/192/384 material, although not mandatory since I support upsampling to the standard 2.8/5.6 for those rates too.

[Miska]

The only puzzle are the selectable filters to tailor the response for DSD. Noise shaping is very well controlled by Playback Designs and EMM labs gear, there are no user filters to tune (PD designs anyway), so wonder which filter on the Teac to use and why/when. Is this a limitation of the processing inside the TEAC, it's just too hard to provide the 'automatic transmission' at the price and there's a manual option instead analogy. I would be keen to understand how the filters work. The two sample rates for DSD are great to be included especially for 128 and future developments in that regard.

 

Practically it just controls steepness of reconstruction noise filter, quite a lot like less or more ringing oversampling filter choices for PCM. The difference is that on PCM you control how much aliases you let through versus amount of ringing. On DSD you control how much noise you let through versus ringing.

 

In any case due to really high rate and low order of the filter for DSD it really doesn't make much difference from ringing point, so it is practically just control how much ultrasonic sound, including noise, you want to let through. Which one is optimal actually depends most on you gear following the DAC.

 

So there's no universal "right" solution, either the choice is left to you or manufacturer has made some kind of compromise solution based on their best guess.

[valenroy]

 

 

These are the graphs of 4 different analog DSD fir filters from the PCM1795 data sheet for those interested.

[valenroy]

OK, great, due to 384 PCM support I guess the DoP DSD128 is the "single channel" 05/FA marker and not the 06/F9 marker? I support both, but just wanted to confirm which one is the case here. Is it USB Audio Class 2? IOW, does it work with the OS-supplied driver on OS X? That would indicate that it could work on Linux too.

 

Is there an ASIO DSD capable driver supplied that works with DSD128 too?

 

It is always important to test compatibility with Linux, since there has been some slight compatibility issues in the past between Linux USB Audio Class driver and some specific implementations of USB Audio Class hardware.

 

ASIO is also important to test with applications, because there are slight variations on how ASIO driver has been implemented, and especially with regards to DSD.

 

Another important thing I also want to check out if DSD works at 48k-base rates, meaning 3.0/6.1 MHz. It is nice feature for upsampling from 48/96/192/384 material, although not mandatory since I support upsampling to the standard 2.8/5.6 for those rates too.

 

I have no idea which DoP1.1 marker scheme Damian used for Audirvana+. Perhaps he has has to implement both methods based on the PCM bandwidth that the DAC is capable of? I guess it would be a short routine to query the PCM bandwidth first before implementing the appropriate DoP DSD128 packing scheme? This is strictly my guess...

 

USB audio class 2.0? I would think so for it to transmit up to 32/384kHz and it is async as well. As I had previously mentioned, DoP1.1 in MacOSX 10.8.2 does not require any driver installation at all. Audirvana+ easily detected the TEAC.

 

As for the ASIO driver, both DSD64 and DSD128 are supported based on some files I have converted to DSD128 using Audiogate. i.e. the XLO burn-in track.

 

As for upsampling 48kHz based PCM to DSD... well, that is beyond the software players that I am using at the moment. Upsampling from 44.1kHz PCM in the SACD plugin is having issues though, with random pops manifesting along the track. DSD128 files played perfectly though... strange...

[valenroy]

It's exciting to see that DSD DACs now gaining momentum, the Mytek broke through the price barrier, and with the TEAC breaking further ground. This DAC is typically designed for the audiophile in mind, extra clearances around the power and RCA connectors to fit hawser like cables on is a nice touch. Balanced outputs with selectable hot pins is a great idea, other manufacturers please follow this lead.

 

Am impressed with the dual mono construction and power supplies in a neat well manufactured and presented package. If Valenroy perceives the SQ to be nearly similar to the Mytek, then Teac are on to a winner. Drivers are always an issue, but for OSX, there doesn't seem to be an issue with DOP and USB2.0 to 192. Not so sure on 358 what happens there, though.

 

The only puzzle are the selectable filters to tailor the response for DSD. Noise shaping is very well controlled by Playback Designs and EMM labs gear, there are no user filters to tune (PD designs anyway), so wonder which filter on the Teac to use and why/when. Is this a limitation of the processing inside the TEAC, it's just too hard to provide the 'automatic transmission' at the price and there's a manual option instead analogy. I would be keen to understand how the filters work. The two sample rates for DSD are great to be included especially for 128 and future developments in that regard.

 

Upsampling for PCM to 192 is available to those who want it, but better results are obtained if they are converted to DSD, but it's fine, can use or not, it's up to the user. The PCM 1795 are a bit long in the tooth now, but still can produce stunning sound, after all it's how the DAC chips are incorporated.

 

All this for USD1000 and less, you can't go far wrong can you. Worthwhile to consider this DAC as an starter DAC that will provide enjoyment for many years to come. There are many competitors at this level, Benchmark DAC2 HGC, Mytek of course, all with DSD, and with a few more DSD Dacs coming up after CES, the choice and discussions are many!!

 

These are exciting times isn't it? I would like to think that with the prevalence of more DSD hardware retailing at real-world prices, the record labels/distributors will start taking notice and eventually do something with all the past DSD masters that are readily at their disposal.

 

As for your query on 358kHz PCM material, I can confirm that the TEAC plays them fine as well. (2xUpsampling of 176.4kHz in foobar SOX and Audirvana+). Perhaps I can report another interesting behavior for the TEAC at 352.8 and 384 kHz PCM - upsampling will be switched off (duh... make sense doesn't it) and the PCM digital filter will be switched off by default as well... i.e. it will just be playing back the pure PCM stream.

[bprice2]

The DAC, HP amp and amp are each selling for $799. The cd player is $899.

 

Yes that is what the young US Teac rep said to me, and I even asked him abou the $1400 rumors , that the math was mistakenly used for the US price. He reiterated the pricing as above.

 

The US dealer repeated the US list prices...$799 each for the DAC, integrated and hp amp; $899 for the cd player/transport.

 

...indicated that the $799 price was a misprint; the actual price is $959.

 

Except that its not selling for $800. Its closer to $1K.

 

For us popcorn eaters out here the quotes above seem a little confusing...at least to me. We have one member who has talked to both a TEAC US sales rep. and a US dealer who have both reiterated the $799 cost of this dac. Then we have another member who says that he talked to to another US dealer who says that the $799 cost is a "misprint" and that the actual US price is about a $grand. I gotta say, "misprint" sounds a little fishy to me, but maybe it's just because I really want it to be $799, which is a much easier sell on the old lady.

[57gold]

Waiting on someone to comment on sound of TEAC versus Mytek into an hi rez amp and speakers. Some of the promotional materials seemed to indicate some added focus on power supply and analog stage by TEAC. Wonder if this has a positive impact?

 

Only wear headphones on airplanes, the noise canceling type on long flights. So cans capability for me is irrelevant.

[Miska]

These are the graphs of 4 different analog DSD fir filters from the PCM1795 data sheet for those interested.

 

I would use filter 1, unless there would be strong reason for steeper in which case I would use filter 4. Now what I don't know is if the Teac DAC has 1:1 mapping from the filter choices to these, or if they chose to rearrange the filter numbers...

[Miska]

I have no idea which DoP1.1 marker scheme Damian used for Audirvana+. Perhaps he has has to implement both methods based on the PCM bandwidth that the DAC is capable of? I guess it would be a short routine to query the PCM bandwidth first before implementing the appropriate DoP DSD128 packing scheme? This is strictly my guess...

 

Well, yes, you could try to make a guess about 06/F9 if DAC can do 176.4 and has four channels. But it would still be a wild guess and you would be assuming it's a stereo DAC and not a normal four channel pro-interface.

 

So since DoP doesn't have any provisions for auto-detection, I'm not trying to be too clever and instead rely user to configure what the hardware supports. Of course I also support the normal dual-wire PCM that way too to get 2x rates (352.8/384) over AES or USB that is only capable max 192k per channel. Allows for example TCAT Dice Firewire chip to reach eight channels in/out of 384k PCM or DSD128. But the ugly part is that USB Audio Class or DoP doesn't have a way for hardware to tell "I support double rate through channel bonding".

 

Of course no such problems with ASIO drivers.

[valenroy]

I finally got my lazy ass to hook up the Audio-GD balanced hp amp/pre-amp to my Parasound A21 power amp which is driving my ATC SCM19s. Both the Mytek and TEAC are connected to the pre-amp and all connections are balanced throughout. Software player will be my preferred foobar with SACD plugin v0.61. Again, let me state upfront, I am not a professional equipment reviewer and I don't intend to sound like one. I am not here to please anybody except to share my experiences for the benefit of all.

 

Previously, the Mytek was connected directly to the power amp with analog volume control. I am quite surprised that the sound quality took a leap upwards when connected as such! The volume bypass mode (as reported by others) definitely sounds better with a pre-amp in the chain. The music presentation is more dimensional with added depth and width to the soundstage and everything just sounds better through the pre-amp. I suspect that the pre-amp is coloring the sound somehow but I can happily live with that! I do realize now that the balanced output signal is very hot and the range of attenuation using the pre-amp is very narrow. However I am still pleasantly surprised... perhaps it is really time for me to buy a new dedicated pre-amp to my main setup. That Wyred4Sound STP-SE does sound very tempting indeed...

 

Well, lets get on with it. For this session, I am only going to write about the DSD performance as I hardly touch PCM material nowadays. I realized that my SACD collection has expanded from 3 titles to 200+ now after I bought the Mytek which was a year ago - all of which I ripped into ISO images using a PS3. The ISO images used for this listening consisted primarily of Ry Cooder's Meeting By The River (track 3 is a fantastic workout for the system!), Shelby Lynne's Just A Little Lovin', Blue Coast Records Volume 1, Goro Ito's Glashaus (native dsd download from ototoy.jp), Choro Club's Takemitsu Songbook (native dsd download from ototoy.jp) and other picks from my SACD-ISO library of over a thousand albums now.

 

Anyway, after getting familiar with the new Mytek sound with the pre-amp, I switched over to the TEAC with both filters 2 & 3. Again, like what I had reported for the headphone listening session, both sound more alike than different. They share the similar trait of DSD which is music that is a pleasure to listen to with warmth and a natural flowing pace. If I really scrutinise hard enough, the Mytek seem to sound ever so slightly more articulate between the two with better resolvement of dimension and space around background instruments. Seriously, I really tire and frustrated myself just now trying to discern differences and I really wouldn't bother with comparing them again as they both sound very good in my setup and I wouldn't be able to discern the two if I am blindfolded.

 

However this time round the difference between both DSD filters 2 & 3 seem less obvious in my main rig, perhaps the difference between the 2 is more easily discernible using headphones or perhaps really, I am just not good at picking out differences. I would happily live with both but the convenience of the pre-amp of the Mytek and its versatility in terms of additional functions and input options are things a tweaker like me favors. So in my case, if it is strictly for the quality of sound reproduction, I wouldn't hesitate to pickup/audition the TEAC and assuming that it is indeed USD949, which is around 60% of the price of a Mytek, I would have definitely picked the TEAC over the Mytek because of the value preposition. But like what I had mentioned, for the tweaker or power user who prefers the comprehensive set of features that Mytek offers, you won't regret the decision as well.

[valenroy]

I would use filter 1, unless there would be strong reason for steeper in which case I would use filter 4. Now what I don't know is if the Teac DAC has 1:1 mapping from the filter choices to these, or if they chose to rearrange the filter numbers...

 

Thanks Miska for the interpretation of the graphs. The primary reason why I didn't experiment with 1 & 4 is because of the reduced gain for both filters and I was trying to narrow my scope and not get myself confused with so many options. If you personally think I should be using filter 1 or 4 instead, I will gladly heed your advise! As for the mapping of the dsd filters,I think they did a 1:1 implementation. Here's a snapshot of the user manual and the characteristics of all 4 filters. They seem to correspond to the PCM1795 datasheet graphs.

 

[Miska]

Direct DSD D/A conversion is typically characterized by -6 dB gain compared to PCM conversion, unless compensated by the analog stage through a separately switchable extra gain. Same is visible also in the DSD->PCM software conversion which is the reason to typically have a separate switchable +6 dB gain for the conversion. -6 dB gain is also property of for example CS4398's direct DSD mode. (note that while DSD mastering should be generally -6 dB, some over-modulated material can exceed that spec)

 

My guess is that those different gains represent different use of the five (four non-zero) hardware converter levels for implementing the filter. No1 being the "serial PWM mode" while No2 is the "parallel PWM mode" while the 3 and 4 are a combination between the two extremes.

 

Of course differing gains make the comparison more difficult, but it's all just difference in analog domain. A bit like comparing different pick-up cartridges, not to even mention the output level difference between MM and MC...

[Audio_ELF]

Not sure if this was already said, but according to CES 2013: TEAC announces Reference 501, 'the most advanced mini hi-fi system in the world' | whathifi.com each of the 501 series units will be £699 in the UK.

 

Eloise

[tapedur]

Latest official price for the US: $859.99

 

News :: TEAC Announce New 501 Reference Series | TEAC

[Audio_ELF]

Latest official price for the US: $859.99

 

News :: TEAC Announce New 501 Reference Series | TEAC

That's more like it: can't have something cheaper in UK than in US (£699 is around $1100).