LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[wklie]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:43 PM, FIndingit said:

Zooming into the playing album cover in the left corner by holding is nonfunctional now in iOS/iPhone?

 

On iPhone, please horizontal swipe to see the cover.

[DrNikonian]

My friend advises to switch off LED display on Lumin because he believes it can make noise interference into sound quality.

Anyone has experience about this matter?

Thank you

 

[BlueSkyy]

13 minutes ago, DrNikonian said:

My friend advises to switch off LED display on Lumin because he believes it can make noise interference into sound quality.

Anyone has experience about this matter?

Thank you

 

Hello.  The display is not an LED display but another technology.  I always ran my X1 with the display turned off but not because it was a possible source of noise.  From my own experience, I never heard any difference is sound quality with the display on or off.  Give it a critical listen and decide for yourself!

[Liam]

No I have not noticed any difference in sound quality either whether display on or off.  I normally leave it off and rely on the app for information.

[wklie]

The front panel is OLED.  I recall a reviewer saying he turned it off for SQ.

 

The network port LED is of course LED.  It can be turned off in newer models.

[DrNikonian]

6 minutes ago, wklie said:

The front panel is OLED.  I recall a reviewer saying he turned it off for SQ.

 

The network port LED is of course LED.  It can be turned off in newer models.

Can I turn off network port LED in my T1?

[pl_svn]

12 minutes ago, DrNikonian said:

Can I turn off network port LED in my T1?

yes, sure... if you have the option in... options:

 

[wklie]

26 minutes ago, DrNikonian said:

Can I turn off network port LED in my T1?

 

Not in T1.

[wklie]

42 minutes ago, wklie said:

The front panel is OLED.  I recall a reviewer saying he turned it off for SQ.

 

P.S. I asked users a few times whether they heard a difference after turning off the front panel, but I don't recall any user confirming it.  Compared to other SQ survey for Leedh Processing Volume, linear vs minimum phase filter, or even Firmware 14 where I got meaningful responses in all cases, front panel is one that where I did not get any confirmation.  So, from this standpoint, I have to conclude any SQ impact, if any, is negligible.

 

On the other hand, this is my own non-Lumin experience.  At one time my preamp (not a Lumin) developed a fault and made serious noise to the speakers.  This fault turned out to be originated from the VFD display module.

[Liam]

7 hours ago, wklie said:

The front panel is OLED.  I recall a reviewer saying he turned it off for SQ.

 

The network port LED is of course LED.  It can be turned off in newer models.

@wklieI have always turned the network led off on my UI Mini.  I'm a kind of belt and braces guy.  With regard to the display, and sorry if the question has been asked before, is there reduction in lifespan of the display in terms of hours of use?

[wklie]

If lifespan is defined as the duration after which they cease to work, i.e. showing absolutely nothing, no, I don't know of a figure like that.  Even if the panel module manufacturer can give a figure, I'd just treat it the same way I treat the MTBF from HDD (i.e. not very useful from my personal experience.  I don't think any figure can explain my 100% failure with all my units of Toshiba DT01ACA300 of different default firmware, different manufacturing years and via different local distributors.)

[wklie]

In my phone Google news feed, after yet another Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 article (I'd be happy to discuss that but unfortunately this isn't the right place), this article popped up:

 

Since this is a new 16-bit DAC, I'd like to share a finding that I've learned when I was working with users on improving SPDIF / AES data and metadata.

 

A Lumin user has a DAC designed using a super popular old DAC chip that operates internally at 16-bit, but can accept 24-bit data.  When playing 24-bit music, for his DAC in his setup for his tastes, setting Lumin U1 (MINI) to 16-bit actually sounded better to him.  (There are even claims that operating that 16-bit DAC chip in 14-bit mode may sound even better in some aspects, but that's another story.  I'd need to read more about it some day.)

 

I assume / guess this may be the case only if you have a 16-bit DAC instead of the modern 32-bit DAC, and is generally not preferred if you use digital volume for digital output.

 

As for why more bits are not necessarily better for some architectures, I'd like to bring up the Leedh principle again, as one possible hypothesis (out of many other possible explanations): As Stereophile measurements show, you cannot get output better than 22 bits from today's best DAC (and usually less than that).  So the least significant bits become noise added.  Leedh Processing Volume aims to prevent or reduce the presence of those least significant bits after a digital volume operation, thereby reducing noise.  I think very few people take this view seriously, so people generally assume 64-bit floating point math is better.  But math and hearing are different things.

[Liam]

@wklie This what the designer of a dac using a super popular dac chip 😉 told me some time ago.

 

"Also, the 16 bits is MSB (most significant bits) of digital stream.

It means that 16bits out of 24 is not mean 2/3 of entire stream but is about 96-99% of entire stream.

In the days of the study of Philip/Sony s' engineers said that 16 MSB is already the max hearable of human's ears."

 

I am prompted to restrict to 16-bit from my UI Mini, currently set to 'native', and evaluate.  I am using Leedh volume, so will be doubly interesting.

[LuminProac]

Hi Peter, Are there any plans of releasing a widget for the lumin app in future? This would be a great addition for Android. Also, controlling the volume through the device's physical volume keys will be a nice touch.

 

Also, Is there a roadmap on new features that we can look forward to?

Lastly, For T2... Its there a power cable upgrade option and does it make a difference?

 

[wklie]

I don't have any cable recommendation.  The feature requests are noted.

[wklie]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:44 AM, wklie said:

Lumin Firmware 14.2 supporting Jazz Groove (paid) Premium FLAC:

 

I've received an inquiry about several Jazz Groove FLAC channels working, but other channels don't.

 

This could be a regional server issue that only affects some users, since all five channels work in my setup at the time of this post.

 

FYI for anyone happen to be experiencing a similar issue.

 

To debug this, you need to use a web browser (Note: I use Firefox) on a computer or smartphone. Open the Jazz Groove account settings page and sign in to your Premium account, go to Audio Setting. Choose the FLAC quality, a station you’re having problem with, and Stream URL (not PLS). Copy it to a new browser tab and play it using the browser. If you can reproduce the problematic playback with the computer or smartphone, copy the URL from the browser (it is no longer the same as the one on the Jazz Groove account page because it has already redirected you to a new regional server - you need the final link) to an e-mail.

 

Once you’ve got the actual final (already redirected) link(s), you can send these links to Jazz Groove support, they’ll forward it to the streaming service provider and fix the problematic regional server.

[Liam]

@wklie Well, I have contrasted having my Lumin UI Mini set to play natively 16bit or 24bit to my 16bit dac, or setting the UI Mini to play 16bit only.  I upgraded the dac chip from the original R version to a single crown version. 

 

I am converted to the 16bit only setting. I find that a ‘cloud’ is removed when 16bit is set. Notes play into space (say a good piano recording). Singers in a chorus are more clearly separated. Dynamics improve, or are more clearly revealed. Soundstage is more naturally presented, and the music generally less apparently ‘jumbled’, or should I say more accessible.

 

Furthermore, I believe I detect a difference between playing an actual 16bit file using the ‘native’ UI Mini setting contrasted with the actual ‘16bit’ setting. The 16bit setting seeming more open. I thought I detected this effect, compared to what I was used, while doing the initial test. Does that make sense to you.

 

I am not quite sure what you meant in reference to Leedh volume in the paragraph in your original post. As I said I am using Leedh.  Do my preferences go against theory in the case of my set up?

On 9/19/2021 at 6:02 AM, wklie said:

I assume / guess this may be the case only if you have a 16-bit DAC instead of the modern 32-bit DAC, and is generally not preferred if you use digital volume for digital output.

 

[Ropet]

4 hours ago, Liam said:

Furthermore, I believe I detect a difference between playing an actual 16bit file using the ‘native’ UI Mini setting contrasted with the actual ‘16bit’ setting.

I think it is hard to make this as general statement as this is also linked to how different dsp's and dac are working. Many dacs convert to 24 bits and the question is maybe more who are doing this best, U1Mini or the dsp/dac. 

 

I have not noticed the difference you write but I will make a more thorough trial.

[Liam]

17 minutes ago, Ropet said:

I think it is hard to make this as general statement as this is also linked to how different dsp's and dac are working. Many dacs convert to 24 bits and the question is maybe more who are doing this best, U1Mini or the dsp/dac. 

 

I have not noticed the difference you write but I will make a more thorough trial.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding.  I am referring there only to a setting in the Lumin UI Mini streamer. The UI Mini offers the option to select to play a 16bit file by clicking 'native' in settings options, or clicking 16bit to fix the setting to 16bit only irrespective of the incoming bit rate. The latter is the setting I am preferring presently at any rate. 

[Ropet]

3 minutes ago, Liam said:

I am referring there only to a setting in the Lumin UI Mini streamer.

I understand this, but Lumin U1 Mini has no dac. To hear music you need to connect to dac. Some dacs/dsp's convert from 16 to 24 bits like U1 Mini does. Other dacs convert everything to dsd, like Marantz SA-10 and PS Audio.

 

What I say is that their is a chain to consider to make a judgement. In this chain there is also an input to consider like if you take the digital signal över USB from a laptop or you use a server över ethernet. You listen to system there more things can have impact, not just U1Mini. I'm not question what you hear but Will you hear the same things with all dacs? I din not know, but I'm not so sure.

[wklie]

Duplicate post deleted.

[wklie]

1 hour ago, Ropet said:

I think it is hard to make this as general statement as this is also linked to how different dsp's and dac are working.

 

No, he was not making a general statement.

 

@Liam and I were discussing his specific 16-bit DAC chip released in (around) year 1989.  It is not applicable to a modern DAC.

 

[wklie]

6 hours ago, Liam said:

Furthermore, I believe I detect a difference between playing an actual 16bit file using the ‘native’ UI Mini setting contrasted with the actual ‘16bit’ setting. The 16bit setting seeming more open. I thought I detected this effect, compared to what I was used, while doing the initial test. Does that make sense to you.

 

I am not quite sure what you meant in reference to Leedh volume in the paragraph in your original post. As I said I am using Leedh.  Do my preferences go against theory in the case of my set up?

 

The first point is unexpected.

 

As for digital volume, conventional wisdom is more bits are better.  However, that does not apply to your DAC since it only has 16 bits - the additional bits are not useful to your specific DAC.

[Liam]

1 hour ago, Ropet said:

I understand this, but Lumin U1 Mini has no dac. To hear music you need to connect to dac. Some dacs/dsp's convert from 16 to 24 bits like U1 Mini does. Other dacs convert everything to dsd, like Marantz SA-10 and PS Audio.

 

What I say is that their is a chain to consider to make a judgement. In this chain there is also an input to consider like if you take the digital signal över USB from a laptop or you use a server över ethernet. You listen to system there more things can have impact, not just U1Mini. I'm not question what you hear but Will you hear the same things with all dacs? I din not know, but I'm not so sure.

@wklieSummed it up perfectly 🙂

[Liam]

29 minutes ago, wklie said:

 

The first point is unexpected.

 

As for digital volume, conventional wisdom is more bits are better.  However, that does not apply to your DAC since it only has 16 bits - the additional bits are not useful to your specific DAC.

@wklie Ah yes I follow you now regarding the Leedh volume control. Thanks.

 

Regarding the first point.....the comparison between 'native' and 16bit settings...in fairness this was initially a feeling based on familiarity while doing the original comparison testing, which seemed to be borne out subsequently when I briefly did direct comparisons of the 'native' and '16bit' settings.  I did not have time to switch more than three times or so, but will listen more thoroughly tomorrow and report.