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LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player


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1 hour ago, wklie said:

 

In what ways would it be beneficial?

I have been a big user of bubble upnp for years. Once I select my playlist, unless I want to change the playlist or select another song from my current playlist... All I need is to access the play, pause, stop, previous track, next track, vol +, vol - features which are on the bubble widget on homescreen. This ensures I don't have to keep opening the app for frequently required adjustments.

 

Similarly, my homescreen is a single screen with all my apps categorised in respective folders like Tools, Utilities, Finance, Streaming, etc. This helps ensure I have everything available on one screen. Thats how I gave organised my apps on the  android phone. 

 

Also muting and resuming playback after a phonecall is a great feature. Another one is letting phone volume hardware keys control the lumin volume.

 

All these add to the user interaction and experience. Thanks for asking

 

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8 hours ago, BlueSkyy said:

Lumin engineers, both hardware and firmware, spent tons of time perfecting the sounds of their components.  Volume control capabilities aside and maybe it's just me and I certainly could be wrong, but I don't see Lumin going down the rabbit hole of attempting to electronically alter the sound, i.e., implementing equalization capabilities, in any of their devices.  For me, it's all about room treatment and speaker positioning within the room if I find that I can't live with the sound I am getting.

If all of the music you listen too is perfectly recorded, then you're very fortunate. Have you ever been trying to listen to music that you really enjoy, only to find yourself either turning the music off, or down, due to the poor recording quality- harsh/hot treble for me is the worst!

 

My 'dream' Lumin EQ suggestion was aimed at making more music more enjoyable more often, for more people, not as a major room correction/speaker deficiency correction device.  I've no idea if it's even technically possible within the Lumin device architecture, however since Peter seems receptive to user feedback, I thought it worth mentioning in case others were thinking along the same lines.

 

LuminProac's comments are similar to my sentiments regarding  mild eq tweaks to suit needs. Particularly useful for headphones too.

 

With regards to the Roon suggestion, I'm currently midway through my THIRD trial period. I've never been able to get Roon to sound as good as the U1 mini by itself. I've tried all the suggestions given to others by Peter in terms of optimising the U1 to suit, tried 2 different computers, various routers/switches/cable arrangements to no avail. Roon core/server to U1 connection is via ethernet, so should be indistinguishable compared to not using Roon. 

 

It's no fault of the Lumin, as Roon also sounds less-good direct to my Directstream compared to the built-in bridge. Short of me buying a Nucleus/Nuc, plus a Roon subscription, just to be able to tweak treble or bass by 1 or 2 dB on the occasional recording, I think I might be giving up on Roon after the current trial period ends. 

 

With regards to hardware keys being able to control volume, as suggested by LuminProac, that would be a great option- I find myself using that feature all the time when using the Tidal app. Basic controls from phone/ipad lock screen like with Tidal are also useful. I suspect Tidal Connect might resolve both of these issues for people that only use Tidal as their music source?

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25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Would love a convolution engine in Lumin products though. 

Isn't that one of the functions of Roon?

 

(I use my miniDSP SHD and Lumin U1)

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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"With regards to the Roon suggestion, I'm currently midway through my THIRD trial period. I've never been able to get Roon to sound as good as the U1 mini by itsel"

 

i agree with this statement not only on my Lumin but my Innous Zen MK3.  On both, they sounded better to me using either the Lumin app or on the Zen.  Ipeng. 

 

I also agree  with you stating not all music we listen to has been has been mastered the best. It is one of the reasons why I have not upgraded from my older T+A intigrated since it has a loudness button and tone controls.   I know it is un-audiophile of me to use them but, some recordings just need a touch to help.  Granted most of the time i have the defeat button on but, sometimes, that slight reduction of treble or a slight increase on the bass knob is needed.   If Lumin could do something like that, I would also like it.  

Den: Kef LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Lumin D1, Cayin SCD50T, Jolida D9, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Wireworld Eclipse Silver 7 IC

Livingroom: T+A PA1530 r Integrated Amplifier, Innous Zen MKIII, L.K.S audio MH Da004, Tyler Acoustics Highland H2, High Fidelity Reveal IC, Wireworld Eclipse Silver 8 Speaker cable. 

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1 hour ago, erniejade said:

"With regards to the Roon suggestion, I'm currently midway through my THIRD trial period. I've never been able to get Roon to sound as good as the U1 mini by itsel"

 

i agree with this statement not only on my Lumin but my Innous Zen MK3.  On both, they sounded better to me using either the Lumin app or on the Zen.  Ipeng. 

 

I also agree  with you stating not all music we listen to has been has been mastered the best. It is one of the reasons why I have not upgraded from my older T+A intigrated since it has a loudness button and tone controls.   I know it is un-audiophile of me to use them but, some recordings just need a touch to help.  Granted most of the time i have the defeat button on but, sometimes, that slight reduction of treble or a slight increase on the bass knob is needed.   If Lumin could do something like that, I would also like it.  

Yes just a fractional adjustment is fine and tied to the genre and year. 70s rock on digital is bass anaemic,  so a fractional boost to bass as a set and forget based on genre would be marvellous. The eq is only meant for Tidal streaming,  which I don't use.  Instead will invest in a multi memory graphic eq to fix.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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8 hours ago, Mikk said:

If all of the music you listen too is perfectly recorded, then you're very fortunate.

Of course it is not. I fully agree that the old tone controls were usefull, i.e. the good ones. My personal favourite was the one from Quad 44 preamp where you could tilt the whole curve. However I’m not in favour to implement it in Lumïn, especially not in U1/U1 Mini that should stay as ”clean” network bridges. Converting/up- & downsampling is within the domain of a network bridge to make it more flexible depending on the receiving dac.

  • Very few in the market ask for it (I beleive).
  • It will increase the price without value for most users
  • There are separate tone controls on the market for those with special interesr like the one from Shiit (see image).

E34666A7-D845-451E-BAF1-EE9FF0311B15.thumb.jpeg.7f14f1fd8c29dbcdf545609481e82fa4.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Ropet said:

Of course it is not. I fully agree that the old tone controls were usefull, i.e. the good ones. My personal favourite was the one from Quad 44 preamp where you could tilt the whole curve. However I’m not in favour to implement it in Lumïn, especially not in U1/U1 Mini that should stay as ”clean” network bridges. Converting/up- & downsampling is within the domain of a network bridge to make it more flexible depending on the receiving dac.

  • Very few in the market ask for it (I beleive).
  • It will increase the price without value for most users
  • There are separate tone controls on the market for those with special interesr like the one from Shiit (see image).

E34666A7-D845-451E-BAF1-EE9FF0311B15.thumb.jpeg.7f14f1fd8c29dbcdf545609481e82fa4.jpeg

 

That Schitt piece, no pun intended, has some pretty good specs.  If it had balanced I/O circuitry that would be a plus as well.

Denafrips Terminator + DAC fed by a Denafrips GAIA DDC, HTPC running JRiver MC, iFi PRO iCAN Signature headphone amp, Marantz AV8805, OPPO BDP-105 for SACD ripping, Sony UBP-X100ES for watching and listening, McIntosh MC1201s Front L/R with Bryston powering the remaining 5 channels, B&W N-801s, B&W HTM-1 in Tiger Eye, B&W 801 IIIs on the sides and in the rear, JL-F212 sub, ReVOX PR-99Mk II, Rega P10 and Alpheta 3, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Amp, Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-XC, UE18 IEMs, Sony CD3000 rebuilt, Sony VPL-VW995ES laser projector, Joe Kane Affinity 120" screen, Cables: Cardas Clear Beyond speaker, Wireworld Platinum Elite 7 RCA, custom (by me) XLRs using affordable, quality parts 🙂

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On 6/26/2021 at 5:08 PM, LuminProac said:

The other way to tweak the overall presentation is with cables..but that's expensive and experimental

Not a single cable, for any money, will give such magic as replacing the capacitors in the power supply with Elna cerafine.

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15 hours ago, Ropet said:

Of course it is not. I fully agree that the old tone controls were usefull, i.e. the good ones. My personal favourite was the one from Quad 44 preamp where you could tilt the whole curve. However I’m not in favour to implement it in Lumïn, especially not in U1/U1 Mini that should stay as ”clean” network bridges. Converting/up- & downsampling is within the domain of a network bridge to make it more flexible depending on the receiving dac.

  • Very few in the market ask for it (I beleive).
  • It will increase the price without value for most users
  • There are separate tone controls on the market for those with special interesr like the one from Shiit (see image).

E34666A7-D845-451E-BAF1-EE9FF0311B15.thumb.jpeg.7f14f1fd8c29dbcdf545609481e82fa4.jpeg

Similar arguments could easily have been used prior to the introduction of Leedh volume control, yet with the benefit of hindsight I think most people would agree that Leedh was a very beneficial addition to an already impressive piece of firmware, whether they use that feature or not.

If you don't use it, that's just fine, but if you do (as I do) then it's fantastic. I imagine the same could be said of EQ/tone controls, especially if implemented in the digital domain.

 

Agreed that the Schiit Loki measures well- I didn't realise just how well. A bit tricky to install in an all-digital system though! It could also be useful for someone needing better impedance matching between analog devices too...

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Dear All,

My preamp has preamp output with deactivated volume function. Through this output, I just could adjust volume by Leedh on Lumin app.

 

In theory, do you think this way is better than combination of preamp's volume and Leedh through other outputs?

thank you very much in advance.

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6 hours ago, Mikk said:

Similar arguments could easily have been used prior to the introduction of Leedh volume control, yet with the benefit of hindsight I think most people would agree that Leedh was a very beneficial addition to an already impressive piece of firmware, whether they use that feature or not.

I agree, especially when we talk about the models that contains a dac. They are to me integrated pieces with preamp, dac and server. I should not react negatively if they also include tone controls.

 

I more refer to U1/U1 Mini where the main focus (for me) is to act as network bridge/server. To be able to use it you need an external dac. You can then decide to buy a dac with our without volume control or you use the volume control in a regular pre-amp. To include ”everything” in all units is not the ideal solution in my view. I think it is a strength to have a product portfolio in different levels where you chose price and technical features you ask for. It will also be a more clear structure what level you are buying and what features you want to combine in each unit. I think the same way with phonestages. I prefer to make my separate choice. My preamp (VTL TI 6.5) has no phonostage. You have to buy an external one or go for VTL 5.5 that with an integrated phonostage. You can also chose a preamp that include also a dac but from another brand. I beleive in choices where you can start in one level and move upwards on the ladder.

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Lumin is doing a pretty good job of making their various units appeal to a broad audience. I bought my U1 mini to run directly into studio monitors/subwoofer system using AES digital cables only. Leedh volume control was the catalyst for my purchase. My monitors convert all analogue inputs to digital anyway, so using AES in eliminates the ADC stage and uses the monitors built in DAC.

 

It turns out I currently prefer to use an external DAC with volume control, due only to the superior soundstage the external DAC gives. I still use a combination of Leedh/DAC volume control as needed. I'm still experimenting with my setup in order to eliminate the external DAC, aiming to have the simplest 'system' available.

 

@Ropetit sounds like our systems are extremely different, and highlights the balancing act Lumin has to do to try to maximise their product performance/features appeal to many audiences. 

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On 6/28/2021 at 11:36 AM, DrNikonian said:

My preamp has preamp output with deactivated volume function. Through this output, I just could adjust volume by Leedh on Lumin app.

 

In theory, do you think this way is better than combination of preamp's volume and Leedh through other outputs?

 

You are using Lumin T1 not T2, right?  (T2, S1 and X1 have the best implementation of Leedh Processing Volume for analog outputs.)

 

I'm afraid there is no easy answer.  You'll need to experiment to find out what sounds best to you in your setup.  If you are not using T2 / S1 / X1 analog outputs, and if you need to decrease the Lumin volume by too much, it's probably not ideal.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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6 hours ago, wklie said:

 

You are using Lumin T1 not T2, right?  (T2, S1 and X1 have the best implementation of Leedh Processing Volume for analog outputs.)

 

I'm afraid there is no easy answer.  You'll need to experiment to find out what sounds best to you in your setup.  If you are not using T2 / S1 / X1 analog outputs, and if you need to decrease the Lumin volume by too much, it's probably not ideal.

Thank you for quick answer.
Recognise Leedh is an major advantage of digital volume, I wonder why my T1 doesn't have best implementation of Leedh like other Lumins? Can you made change in later firmwares?

Thank you

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1 hour ago, DrNikonian said:

Recognise Leedh is an major advantage of digital volume, I wonder why my T1 doesn't have best implementation of Leedh like other Lumins? Can you made change in later firmwares?

 

All different implementations Leedh Processing Volume inside Lumin firmwares for different models and types of outputs already take the best advantage of the different hardware.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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Slightly off topic but if you like string bass there's a new offering from NativeDSD Music entitled "Mega Bass" that will just about knock your socks off!  That is if your system is capable of reproducing the lowest registers of the 11 foot tall "Octobass".  I got the DSD512 version and my X1 really does the album justice!

Denafrips Terminator + DAC fed by a Denafrips GAIA DDC, HTPC running JRiver MC, iFi PRO iCAN Signature headphone amp, Marantz AV8805, OPPO BDP-105 for SACD ripping, Sony UBP-X100ES for watching and listening, McIntosh MC1201s Front L/R with Bryston powering the remaining 5 channels, B&W N-801s, B&W HTM-1 in Tiger Eye, B&W 801 IIIs on the sides and in the rear, JL-F212 sub, ReVOX PR-99Mk II, Rega P10 and Alpheta 3, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Amp, Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-XC, UE18 IEMs, Sony CD3000 rebuilt, Sony VPL-VW995ES laser projector, Joe Kane Affinity 120" screen, Cables: Cardas Clear Beyond speaker, Wireworld Platinum Elite 7 RCA, custom (by me) XLRs using affordable, quality parts 🙂

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On 6/25/2021 at 12:18 AM, wklie said:

Those with a Lumin X1 / T2 / U1 / U1 MINI and a Tidal subscription, and would like to beta test Lumin Tidal Connect, please let me know.  I hope to have a beta firmware ready by early July.

 

I regret to say that other Lumin models have a platform limitation and therefore cannot run Tidal Connect for now.

 

Could I jump on this? I have a U1 mini.

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