LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[chungjh]

3 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Well, if copper is converted to optical and then back again to copper there's two power supplies that can be removed. Unless the connection is more than 100m, then the extra conversion allows more noise at either end of the optical chain.

 

The X1 is the only Lumin with optical, so it avoids the last conversion externally and is treated inside the X1, fair enough. I'm not willing to spend $$,$$$ to perhaps improve the sound which I may not audibly pick-up. 

 

So for now, the U1 is doing a great job with copper, saving for an Etheregen to add in the future.

I definitely recommend EtherRegen upstream of X1. It makes a noticeable improvement. I am currently using the stock power but I am waiting for a Paul Hynes Srt4 lps which should further improve the sq. 

[One and a half]

37 minutes ago, chungjh said:

I definitely recommend EtherRegen upstream of X1. It makes a noticeable improvement. I am currently using the stock power but I am waiting for a Paul Hynes Srt4 lps which should further improve the sq. 

Thanks for the advice as it mirrors many who have an EtherRegen fitted. There's a few instances where the Etheregen and Lumin have dropped connections now again,  but looks like these are largely solved.

The use of the linear supply would benefit components outside the chain,  as noise can find a path where it likes and ends up in what can be heard. I don't think noise can be eliminated,  but at least add a component to be 'minimal impact' and that ends up with a good LPS as a start.

[dark]

17 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Использование линейного источника питания принесет пользу компонентам за пределами цепи, поскольку шум может найти путь там, где ему нравится, и в конечном итоге попасть в то, что можно услышать.

I have compared and have not heard the difference between linear power supply and switching power supply, in network devices, a waste of money.

[chungjh]

Peter

 

Lumin modules run relatively cool. Many electronics sound better when they are at very warm temperatures (e.g. amplifiers). Has anyone tested whether Lumins, e.g. X1, may sound better if the operating temperature increased by a few degrees?

[vintageaxeman]

8 hours ago, One and a half said:

Well, if copper is converted to optical and then back again to copper there's two power supplies that can be removed. Unless the connection is more than 100m, then the extra conversion allows more noise at either end of the optical chain.

 

The X1 is the only Lumin with optical, so it avoids the last conversion externally and is treated inside the X1, fair enough. I'm not willing to spend $$,$$$ to perhaps improve the sound which I may not audibly pick-up. 

 

So for now, the U1 is doing a great job with copper, saving for an Etheregen to add in the future.

If copper is converted to optical and optical back to copper, you need 2 converters, which are active, POWERED units, with their own wall warts. OR you could add an LPS, but they DO need power!

[wklie]

23 hours ago, chungjh said:

Lumin modules run relatively cool. Many electronics sound better when they are at very warm temperatures (e.g. amplifiers). Has anyone tested whether Lumins, e.g. X1, may sound better if the operating temperature increased by a few degrees?

 

I suspect that is more relevant to amps than other types of equipment.  I never received any report like this for Lumin players.

[One and a half]

On 11/14/2020 at 12:41 PM, dark said:

I have compared and have not heard the difference between linear power supply and switching power supply, in network devices, a waste of money.

many, many others have heard a difference of what an LPS can do. It depends if a SMPS is part of the AC network, the same as the audio, then there will be problems. 

Inside commercial network switches are also SMPS, defeating purposes somewhat.

[barrows]

5 hours ago, One and a half said:

many, many others have heard a difference of what an LPS can do. It depends if a SMPS is part of the AC network, the same as the audio, then there will be problems. 

Inside commercial network switches are also SMPS, defeating purposes somewhat.

I think that you know this, but I also thnk it is important to stress that not all SMPS are created equal.  this applies to linear power supplies as well.  There are some cheap and terrible linear power supplies available, and there are also some very good SMPS available (albeit they can be hard to find).  It is wrong to suggest to readers who may not know better, that all SMPS have problems.  There are even some advantages to SMPS (besides their obvious efficiency advantage) in terms of the spectrum of their noise: the higher frequency noise of SMPS is often easier to deal with than the low frequency noise created by linear power supplies.

Now I am not suggesting that cheapo wall wart will outperform a good linear power supply, but I am warning against a blanket statement that tells people SMPS are "bad" and linear power supplies are "good", the engineering of each matters.

[wklie]

For more details of the Lumin support for Tidal OAuth login, I've created a separate thread here:

 

[wklie]

On 10/19/2020 at 1:02 AM, wklie said:

Lumin remote control as requested by some users, especially those who are using Leedh Processing Volume:

 

 

When - As soon as we finalize the packaging, distribution schemes and logistics. We already have the first batch of actual hardware ready.
All past and present models of Lumin network players and transports are supported.
Price is subject to change, tentatively USD2xx.
Roon compatible.

 

The remote control package comes with a USB IR receiver in the shape of a half sphere, for those who wonder how existing Lumin models can be operated. For Lumin X1 and T2, since there is only one USB port, if you plug in the USB IR receiver, you do not have another port for USB storage (not usable with Roon anyway) or USB DAC output. For the M1, if you already use one USB port for the RCA input adapter, using the other USB port for the USB IR receiver would meaning leaving no USB port for USB storage (not usable with Roon anyway). There should be some USB hub that could workaround this limitation, but I cannot guarantee that because different hubs do behave differently.

 

The remote has buttons for volume up / down / mute / play / pause / next / previous / shuffle / repeat / standby. For using these remote functions, you don’t need to pick up the iPad.  Anything other than these (e.g. playlist adjustment) will still require the iPad.

 

The remote control and the receiver are made in Austria.

 

http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-ir-control-package.html

 

MSRP of Lumin physical remote is USD250, subject to change.

[BlueSkyy]

I always like reading the documentation, release notes, regarding new firmware releases, hopefully before installation, but certainly after installation.

[Steveob]

I just tried to update my D2 to Firmware 13.3 and now my D2 is displaying ‘updating...’ for over 1 hour and not completing the update. I'm pretty sure the update should not take this long.  I updated the Lumin app and it no longer sees my D2.  Has anyone else had this problem with a firmware update?  Does anyone know what I should do to fix this?

[BlueSkyy]

I had good luck with my X1.  Took about four (4) minutes.  Have you done anything like power cycle the D2?

[Ropet]

My Lumin U1 Mini took also around 4 minutes or less.

[wklie]

1 hour ago, Steveob said:

D2 is displaying ‘updating...’ for over 1 hour and not completing the update.

 

Please power cycle the D2

[Steveob]

Thanks for the replies BlueSkyy and Ropet.  Peter, give that it was a firmware update I was afraid to power cycle the D2.  I just did a power cycle and it reverted back to firmware 13.2 and I restarted the 13.3 upgrade.  The upgrade worked and everything is now working again and 13.3 is installed.  Thanks so much!!

[One and a half]

On 11/16/2020 at 1:07 AM, barrows said:

I think that you know this, but I also thnk it is important to stress that not all SMPS are created equal.  this applies to linear power supplies as well.  There are some cheap and terrible linear power supplies available, and there are also some very good SMPS available (albeit they can be hard to find).  It is wrong to suggest to readers who may not know better, that all SMPS have problems.  There are even some advantages to SMPS (besides their obvious efficiency advantage) in terms of the spectrum of their noise: the higher frequency noise of SMPS is often easier to deal with than the low frequency noise created by linear power supplies.

Now I am not suggesting that cheapo wall wart will outperform a good linear power supply, but I am warning against a blanket statement that tells people SMPS are "bad" and linear power supplies are "good", the engineering of each matters.

The commercial reality conflicts with your intentions.

 

I agree that an SMPS with low leakage output with respect to noise is about but not easy to find. There's a brand from Japan, name escapes me for now, but not available for the hobbyist from the likes of Mouser or simialr, inaddition to that nonsense of exclusive distribution to the one country.

 

What is a cheap linear supply? That statement is a bit open ended, but let's find some common ground. It all depends on the load device in question. For instance the EtherRegen or the range of LPS from Uptone. The power supply that they need is fairly crude affair, since the device itself creates stable voltages what it needs. In that case, a non regualted supply is fine; a transformer, diodes, huge cap and fuse is all that's needed. Diode switching noise can be filtered with small caps, and that supply is fine!

 

BUT. If a DAC is dependent on the DC power supply, it must have no noise of its own, be regulated and protected against overvoltage/overcurrent. You can design a linear supply around this, there are some great low noise regulators out there now and with a low component count can prevent noise. Ready made protection relays working on the AC side can respond quick to an overvoltage, and cut off the AC, would be a better result than on the DC low voltage supply.

 

As to the switching frequency, yes, the higher the noise frequency it's easy to filter than lower end, but the noise needs to be measured and then attenuated, then designed as to not escape the system, so how to do when the conductive medium, the output wires can let this noise loose?

 

Compromise all round, but linear supply will always win in my book.

[chungjh]

On 11/17/2020 at 3:44 AM, wklie said:

 

http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-ir-control-package.html

 

MSRP of Lumin physical remote is USD250, subject to change.

Hi Peter

 

I suspect that the answer is no, but is there way to display the volume on the X1 window? I know you can see the volume on the iPad but it would be good to see the volume without tapping on iPad.

[wklie]

When using the physical remote to adjust volume, the volume will be shown on the front panel for a short time.  Then it will go back to the normal display of track name, artist, etc.

[rodrigaj]

1 hour ago, wklie said:

When using the physical remote to adjust volume, the volume will be shown on the front panel for a short time.  Then it will go back to the normal display of track name, artist, etc.

Is it a large display? Able to be seen from across the room? I remember being disappointed at the size of the "mute" display when that was introduced.

[nikolaos1969]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:08 PM, stefano_mbp said:

@Vangelis

 

It seems to me that the comparison is a little unbalanced. Sonore and SOtM are very similar in terms of functionality but Lumin U1 mini is a machine with many more features ... it would seem to me to compare apples and oranges.
I have SOtM SMS 200 Neo (not Ultra) and I find that it works very well despite not having linear power, the improvement of SQ compared to Mac + Audirvana has been remarkable for me.
Regarding the Sonore and SoTM features, they have very similar sw, it has the same origin even if SoTM then followed its own path, they offer MPD UPNP/DLNA roon Ready HQPlayer NAA LMS/Squeezelite Shairport Bubbleupnpserver and just the SOtM Librespot and Minimserver.
I think the comparison should be made on the availability of streaming services such as Qobuz, Tidal (MQA) etc ...
I am not very interested in Tidal and Qobuz but I have tried Tidal these days and, as far as I have been able to understand, the service is accessible only for cd quality, MQA is not available. Furthermore, the availability of navigation options is rather poor compared to the original Tidal app.
I can imagine that Sonore is also on the same level, but I could be wrong.
Very different is the Lumin U1 mini that I do not own but of which I have carefully read the specifications.

I use use the Lumin app which I find exceptional.
Lumin allows you to upscale to DSD, access the most popular streaming services and Web Radios and on paper it is perfectly compatible with Tidal MQA. Last but not least the fact that users talk about it very well also in terms of SQ.
The support offered directly by Lumin on this forum is also effective, precise and almost immediate (considering the time difference).

That said my vote is for Lumin U1 mini

Hi, Stefano I suppose you are talking about sonore ultra rendu. I have tried sotm neo & ultra and I inspected too many drop outs. The modem/router encountered problems with wifi. So, regarding buying a server or a NAS and a streamer the second solution might seem very interested. I have not heard lumin u1 mini but I think I might challenge the purchase

[wklie]

6 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

too many drop outs. The modem/router encountered problems with wifi.

 

If you have a post in another thread talking about your drop out, please link to it.  Otherwise you may describe your network topology (modem, router, switches, access points, NAS, streamer) and how every piece is connected together, via WiFi or Ethernet, etc.  If you are having a network infrastructure or WiFi problem that gives you dropout, changing to our products will likely not solve the problem.

[wklie]

22 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

Is it a large display? Able to be seen from across the room? I remember being disappointed at the size of the "mute" display when that was introduced.

 

During volume display invoked by the physical remote, the progress circle on the right side of the front panel will represent volume, with a volume number shown inside in a larger font size, but the physical dimension of the front panel is quite small.

[nikolaos1969]

21 hours ago, wklie said:

 

If you have a post in another thread talking about your drop out, please link to it.  Otherwise you may describe your network topology (modem, router, switches, access points, NAS, streamer) and how every piece is connected together, via WiFi or Ethernet, etc.  If you are having a network infrastructure or WiFi problem that gives you dropout, changing to our products will likely not solve the problem.

 

[chungjh]

I will be getting a single-ended preamp/amp system downstream of Lumin X1. Will there be any SQ degradation from this? I know I will be getting a 6 db decrease with RCA but I am curious about the sound quality.