LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, Liam said:

Tunein Radio stations are missing in Lumin app despite being signed in, but all seems normal when Tunein accessed in browser. Help appreciated. Thanks. 

 

If you are UK based, there may be issues with you accessing foreign internet radio stations via TuneIn:

https://radiotoday.co.uk/2020/09/international-radio-stations-now-restricted-on-tunein/

[Liam]

3 hours ago, vrdsp0 said:

@Liam you need first to flag the radios you want to listen to as favorites in your Tunein account for example through the browser.

Then you need to sync favorites through the Lumin app (LUMIN options>radios setting>update radios)

@vrdsp0thanks for reply. I did already have various stations in my Tunein Library (see below screen shot).  I’m sure I used to be able to see them in Lumin app. Maybe I am mixing with my Node2i in the other system. Because I was getting  “bad Tunein login” in Lumin app I reset the Tunein password and used that new one in the Lumin app, but still the same message and of course no stations appeared, although Lumin app indicates I am logged in. Perhaps it is related to Cebolla’s post above, though I used Tunein this morning via BluOS Node2i.  I am located in Ireland.  

[Liam]

2 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

If you are UK based, there may be issues with you accessing foreign internet radio stations via TuneIn:

https://radiotoday.co.uk/2020/09/international-radio-stations-now-restricted-on-tunein/

@CebollaThanks very much for your help. When doing a google earlier I came across a post in 2019 about what you referenced, but now as you pointed me too it has come into effect. I am in Ireland. Perhaps we have been grouped with UK. Still though I used Tunein from a Node2i this morning. See also my post above. 

[thingswelike]

9 minutes ago, Liam said:

@CebollaThanks very much for your help. When doing a google earlier I came across a post in 2019 about what you referenced, but now as you pointed me too it has come into effect. I am in Ireland. Perhaps we have been grouped with UK. Still though I used Tunein from a Node2i this morning. See also my post above. 

Hi Liam
Just to confirm - in App > Settings > LUMIN name > Options you have Internet Radio Setting TuneIn Radio Sign In set to the same name as the URL you've got above. i.e. obrianmailtunein. Then hit enter. And then you've tapped Update Radio Channels?

I'm in the UK and I'm seeing Classic FM and Jazz FM for example (sadly BBC are no longer showing).

Edit: I just entered your username and can see The UK 1940s OTR, The UK 1940s Radio Station and 1940's Radio Big Band

[Liam]

9 minutes ago, thingswelike said:

Hi Liam
Just to confirm - in App > Settings > LUMIN name > Options you have Internet Radio Setting TuneIn Radio Sign In set to the same name as the URL you've got above. i.e. obrianmailtunein. Then hit enter. And then you've tapped Update Radio Channels?

I'm in the UK and I'm seeing Classic FM and Jazz FM for example (sadly BBC are no longer showing).

Edit: I just entered your username and can see The UK 1940s OTR, The UK 1940s Radio Station and 1940's Radio Big Band

@thingswelikeproblem solved thank you!  I was using the Tunein password not my username. 👏👍

[erniejade]

I currently have a D1 with sbooster.   I am debating on changing to a U1 mini.  I have an lks mh-da004 dac.  Would I hear a difference? I realize the D1 is only BNC out vs the U1 mini can do USB  and AES/EBU and they might be the better of the outputs for sound quality but, is it worth changing to the U1 Mini? 

[wklie]

Yes, it will be better.

[erniejade]

4 hours ago, wklie said:

Yes, it will be better.

Thank you. I didn't know if the streaming portion was going to make a sound difference over the d1.  Do you recommend USB to the dac or AES/EBU on the u1 mini? 

[wklie]

Please try both AES and USB and see which sounds better to you.  When testing AES, please disconnect USB first.

 

Can you find out the Amanero firmware version your DAC is using?  Note that you'll need to upgrade the Amanero firmware to 2006be10 or later before DSD256 output from U1 MINI will work with it.

[Roy Boy]

If I wanted to drive both an amp and subwoofer crossover from my Lumin A1 via the XLR outputs and I am building my own XLR cables, is there any reason I could not or should not build a Y cable  (1 Female XLR to 2 Male XLR)

to drive both devices?

[BlueSkyy]

6 hours ago, Roy Boy said:

If I wanted to drive both an amp and subwoofer crossover from my Lumin A1 via the XLR outputs and I am building my own XLR cables, is there any reason I could not or should not build a Y cable  (1 Female XLR to 2 Male XLR)

to drive both devices?

Current wisdom thinking seems to imply no, don't double the load (halve the impedance) on the Lumin output.  Additionally, the interaction between the two paralleled loads is unknown.

 

I've loaded both the XLR and RCA outputs at the same time on my device and could not detect any audible difference.  YMMV but, as you are making your own XLR cables and probably the "Y", why not give it a try and see if you can detect anything amiss?  It won't damage anything physically at the very least.

[wklie]

On 11/10/2020 at 12:27 PM, Roy Boy said:

If I wanted to drive both an amp and subwoofer crossover from my Lumin A1 via the XLR outputs and I am building my own XLR cables, is there any reason I could not or should not build a Y cable  (1 Female XLR to 2 Male XLR) to drive both devices?

 

The impedance will become different, but it's hard to say how it affects the SQ (if any) with your setup, and in the worst case you might get a ground loop.  If you try this please let me know your results.

 

Generally to use a subwoofer with Lumin, it's best to use the subwoofer high-level input such as those found in REL (that I use personally) unless you're using a class D amp.

 

If the subwoofer does not have a high level input, a Lumin user has reported success with using Jensen SP-2SX:

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/sp-2sx/

[chungjh]

It is generally believed that playing stored music, let's say on Lumin L1 to X1, sounds better than the same album streamed from Tidal or Qobuz to Lumin X1? Do you think this is true?  If so, how much improvement?

[wklie]

For those who hear a difference, something that can be tried include: LPS for router and switches, and fiber isolation (already built into X1 if you use a SFP switch).

 

A very interesting case study is that one user reported his local CD rip files sounding worse than Tidal / Qobuz streaming.  It turns out that his fiber isolation was done at the wrong place (at the router) instead of the correct place at the input to Lumin.

 

Perhaps most importantly, it should be noted that a version of streaming music can actually be different from the corresponding CD rip, depending on what the labels submit to the streaming services.  In particular, if you encounter UMG watermark, it is no longer the same as the CD rip.  In order to draw any conclusion about SQ of streaming vs local file, the first thing to do is to confirm both are of the same version / master.

[BlueSkyy]

31 minutes ago, wklie said:

A very interesting case study is that one user reported his local CD rip files sounding worse than Tidal / Qobuz streaming.  It turns out that his fiber isolation was done at the wrong place (at the router) instead of the correct place at the input to Lumin.

Hello Peter.  I am not sure I understand.  To implement a fiber link to the Lumin, you need an SFP at both the Lumin and at the switch/router that supplies data to and from the Lumin.  In the situation you mentioned, are you implying that the Lumin was connected via copper to the router?

 

Sorry for not completely understanding.

[wklie]

When not using the Lumin X1 native SFP support, you may still use a pair of fiber media converters (FMC) to have fiber isolation:

 

WiFi router or network switch - (LAN cable) - FMC - (fiber) - FMC - (LAN cable) - Lumin

Lumin T2 / D2 / M1 / U1 (MINI): Use a pair of TP-Link MC210CS

Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 : Use a pair of TP-Link MC110CS (Note: old hardware revisions of MC210CS is not compatible)

Between the pair of non-SFP FMC you need a single mode SC-SC duplex Corning fiber (note: SC-SC is for a pair of FMC, not for SFP or X1) such as:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3m-SC-SC-duplex-9-125um-Corning-ClearCurve-single-mode-bend-insensitive-fiber/232757309790?hash=item36316ab15e:g:ixgAAOSwcJ1a7Oct:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true

The Lumin-side FMC needs to be driven by a LPS, an inexpensive one is:
https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/st...gDrillDownView

 

Another simpler option is to use something like GigaFOIL at higher cost.

[BlueSkyy]

Got it.  Thanks!

[chungjh]

I think the easiest way to test the SQ of stored vs stream is to purchase an album from Qobuz and store it in L1. Then compare it to the same title streamed from Qobuz. May be someone with L1 can test this?

[vintageaxeman]

21 hours ago, wklie said:

When not using the Lumin X1 native SFP support, you may still use a pair of fiber media converters (FMC) to have fiber isolation:

 

WiFi router or network switch - (LAN cable) - FMC - (fiber) - FMC - (LAN cable) - Lumin

Lumin T2 / D2 / M1 / U1 (MINI): Use a pair of TP-Link MC210CS

Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 : Use a pair of TP-Link MC110CS (Note: old hardware revisions of MC210CS is not compatible)

Between the pair of non-SFP FMC you need a single mode SC-SC duplex Corning fiber (note: SC-SC is for a pair of FMC, not for SFP or X1) such as:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3m-SC-SC-duplex-9-125um-Corning-ClearCurve-single-mode-bend-insensitive-fiber/232757309790?hash=item36316ab15e:g:ixgAAOSwcJ1a7Oct:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true

The Lumin-side FMC needs to be driven by a LPS, an inexpensive one is:
https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/st...gDrillDownView

 

Another simpler option is to use something like GigaFOIL at higher cost.

Is it your experience, Peter, that inserting a fibre optic link in this way does improve not only the theoretical isolation, but also the sonic outcome? ie Did Lumin fit the optical input on the X1 because it is KNOWN to have a beneficial effect to the sound? Or is it just there for 'future-proofing' ?

[barrows]

18 minutes ago, vintageaxeman said:

the theoretical isolation

Not Peter but but there is nothing "theoretical" about the isolation proved by an optical fiber Network connection.  The (galvanic) isolation provided by an optical fiber cable is absolute and not subject to "theory".

[vintageaxeman]

29 minutes ago, barrows said:

Not Peter but but there is nothing "theoretical" about the isolation proved by an optical fiber Network connection.  The (galvanic) isolation provided by an optical fiber cable is absolute and not subject to "theory".

Yes, absolutely, of course you are correct, barrows.

 

Perhaps what I should have said is:

"Is it your experience, Peter, that inserting a fibre optic link in this way not only provides galvanic isolation, but that this does actually improves the sonic outcome?   ie Did Lumin fit the optical input on the X1 because it is KNOWN to have a beneficial effect to the sound? Or is it just there for 'future-proofing' ?"

[BlueSkyy]

Vintageaxeman, I think your question was a good one regardless of how you couched it.  For me, the answer could be that providing both interfaces was done for both SQ and "future-proofing" purposes.  I can hear differences in SQ when using copper or fiber although I don't have the verbal skills to actually put the differences into words and the ability to hear the difference is not 100% repeatable on any given day. Suffice it to say that the Lumin sounds sublime when connected both ways.  Also, my wife tells me that sometimes she thinks confirmation bias gets the best of me.

[chungjh]

13 hours ago, vintageaxeman said:

Yes, absolutely, of course you are correct, barrows.

 

Perhaps what I should have said is:

"Is it your experience, Peter, that inserting a fibre optic link in this way not only provides galvanic isolation, but that this does actually improves the sonic outcome?   ie Did Lumin fit the optical input on the X1 because it is KNOWN to have a beneficial effect to the sound? Or is it just there for 'future-proofing' ?"

I compared optical vs and copper ethernet. I found that I like the ethernet connection better. Optical sounded more thin/analytical.

[wklie]

The SFP port was included in Lumin X1 because a number of users with different brands of network streamers have been using fiber network isolation with positive reports.  Having the SFP port built in has the advantage of eliminating the need for the receiver side FMC, its power supply, and another network cable.  So we knew fiber isolation is a useful thing to have.

 

As for SQ, it is taste and setup dependent.  So far on Lumin X1, I have received more reports of preferring fiber input than preferring Ethernet input.  This is basically the same result as what we got from a demo of Lumin X1 comparing copper Ethernet vs fiber, in that event we asked visitors to vote their preference.

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, chungjh said:

I compared optical vs and copper ethernet. I found that I like the ethernet connection better. Optical sounded more thin/analytical.

Well, if copper is converted to optical and then back again to copper there's two power supplies that can be removed. Unless the connection is more than 100m, then the extra conversion allows more noise at either end of the optical chain.

 

The X1 is the only Lumin with optical, so it avoids the last conversion externally and is treated inside the X1, fair enough. I'm not willing to spend $$,$$$ to perhaps improve the sound which I may not audibly pick-up. 

 

So for now, the U1 is doing a great job with copper, saving for an Etheregen to add in the future.