LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[rodrigaj]

12 hours ago, wklie said:

For both the U1 and U1 MINI:

• Only one USB DAC can be connected.  The other USB port may be used for the Lumin USB IR receiver for physical remote control or a USB thumb drive.
• When a USB DAC is detected, the non-USB outputs no longer have correct timing.  So one DAC only.
• When a USB DAC is not detected, AES / BNC / coaxial / toslink can be used together simultaneously, up to 4 DACs.

What is the Lumin USB IR receiver?

[wklie]

Lumin remote control as requested by some users, especially those who are using Leedh Processing Volume:

 

 

When - As soon as we finalize the packaging, distribution schemes and logistics. We already have the first batch of actual hardware ready.
All past and present models of Lumin network players and transports are supported.
Price is subject to change, tentatively USD2xx.
Roon compatible.

 

The remote control package comes with a USB IR receiver in the shape of a half sphere, for those who wonder how existing Lumin models can be operated. For Lumin X1 and T2, since there is only one USB port, if you plug in the USB IR receiver, you do not have another port for USB storage (not usable with Roon anyway) or USB DAC output. For the M1, if you already use one USB port for the RCA input adapter, using the other USB port for the USB IR receiver would meaning leaving no USB port for USB storage (not usable with Roon anyway). There should be some USB hub that could workaround this limitation, but I cannot guarantee that because different hubs do behave differently.

 

The remote has buttons for volume up / down / mute / play / pause / next / previous / shuffle / repeat / standby. For using these remote functions, you don’t need to pick up the iPad.  Anything other than these (e.g. playlist adjustment) will still require the iPad.

 

The remote control and the receiver are made in Austria.

[BlueSkyy]

Silly question but I guess it's too late to ask for an RF interface to compliment the IR interface?

[EvilTed]

@wklie

 

Nice to see Lumin listen to customers :)

How much are these going to run for?

[FIndingit]

Don’t sell them too cheap (so at least $299), the people who beg for these should also pay for them dearly. 😈

[BlueSkyy]

I trust it will be milled from a solid block of 7075-T6 aluminum and, therefore, quite substantial in the hand and sculpted like a fine work of art or................ it could be plastic.

[rodrigaj]

I'd pay $300 to cut off the back overhang 😀.

[BlueSkyy]

2 minutes ago, rodrigaj said:

I'd pay $300 to cut off the back overhang 😀.

I have to enlist the help of a very small person with tiny hands to remove the BNC connector when needed.

[rodrigaj]

The XLR outputs on my A1 are even worse. They have that push button lock release that sits between the overhang and the plug. I have to get a wooden dowel to push it, while I grab both sides of the plug and pull out.

 

Who thinks this overhang is a good idea, and why?

[BlueSkyy]

15 minutes ago, rodrigaj said:

The XLR outputs on my A1 are even worse. They have that push button lock release that sits between the overhang and the plug. I have to get a wooden dowel to push it, while I grab both sides of the plug and pull out.

 

Who thinks this overhang is a good idea, and why?

 

15 minutes ago, rodrigaj said:

The XLR outputs on my A1 are even worse. They have that push button lock release that sits between the overhang and the plug. I have to get a wooden dowel to push it, while I grab both sides of the plug and pull out.

 

Who thinks this overhang is a good idea, and why?

The overhand is esthetically pleasing to look at and is okay as long as the unit is not installed in the inner shelves of any rack system.

 

But I complain too much!  I wouldn't have any other streamer than the Lumin and I know that many of us feel the same way..

[rodrigaj]

+1 The best streamers and the best app!

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, rodrigaj said:

The XLR outputs on my A1 are even worse. They have that push button lock release that sits between the overhang and the plug. I have to get a wooden dowel to push it, while I grab both sides of the plug and pull out.

 

Who thinks this overhang is a good idea, and why?

The overhang is now not going to be removed, it's been there since Noah was a little boy. For months (and years probably) the rear of the Lumin will be undisturbed  allowing moisture and contaminants onto the terminal metal surfaces. Having the overhang will prevent the settling of dust and moisture, so while it's inconvenient for swapping out cables, in the long run it's an advantage.

 

If it's any help, the Quadraspire shelf can be removed from the top of the Lumin allowing the Lumin to be placed upside down, and full access is now possible. It's a way.

 

[rodrigaj]

13 minutes ago, One and a half said:

For months (and years probably) the rear of the Lumin will be undisturbed  allowing moisture and contaminants onto the terminal metal surfaces. Having the overhang will prevent the settling of dust and moisture,

I'm sorry, but there is no way that a half opened overhang is going to stop dust and moisture, only a hermetically sealed back would do that.

 

I believe the overhang is there because Linn products do it and Lumin's case design is highly influenced by Linn. Has been since day one.

 

 

 

 

 

[One and a half]

To revive the Leedh processing a little, the behaviour of the output of my DAC was observed with different sample rates. Leedh Volume was switched on with the Lumin App, and set to 97% and the DAC power cycled.

 

Native file 96/24 displays 96.0 29 bit

Native file 44.1/16 displays 44.1 21 bit

Native file DSD 64, displays 352.8 29 bit

 

I can understand the volume control truncates the bits. Leedh looks like a 24 bit file is changed to 32bit, and tossed 3 bits for the volume control. For 16 bit files, changed to 24, then tossed 3.

 

Volume control is not possible for DSD directly, so the conversion to PCM and 32 bit takes place and doesn't go back to DSD for the DAC to process.  The conversion DSD-PCM-DSD is kind of messy, once from DSD-PCM is a balanced compromise.

 

It does look weird though, when the file displayed on the Lumin is different to what the DAC says. 

 

The DAC's output can be adjusted, and is normally at 0 db, the output levels are OK for the pre-amp since the pre-amp is from the same manufacturer. for this reason, I don't use Leedh processing. Granted if the levels of the Lumin especially on XLR are too high for the pre-amp, then Leedh would work very well.

 

Leedh on, DSD64

 

Leedh off DSD 64

 

 

Redbook on Leedh

[One and a half]

28 minutes ago, rodrigaj said:

I'm sorry, but there is no way that a half opened overhang is going to stop dust and moisture, only a hermetically sealed back would do that.

Yes, stop is a different term to prevent. Where I live in a sub tropical environment, humidity takes its toll of metal surfaces and many the back of an amplifier left to sit 'exposed' will tarnish sooner than those with a shelf to protect the terminals, just an observation. A quick clean with Deoxit or similar every year prior to the summer works a treat in maintaining the metal connector finish. 

  

[Roy Boy]

This is a potentially dumb question. I have an A1 and been using the Leedh volume control to connect directly to my amp. I am looking at potentially changing amps and noticed that the A1 has a max output on RCA of 2 VRMS.  Many amps have an input sensitivity of between 2 and 3 VRMS to drive to full output.  Is there any potential mod to increase the max VRMS over the RCA outputs? I suspect the answer is no but just wanted to check.

  I do recognize that the newer models went to 3 VRMS on RCA and 6 VMS on XLR. Thanks

 

[BlueSkyy]

No questions are dumb.  Although I suspect hardware mods to any of the existing equipment are not in the offing, I can't speak with authority as to anything the the good guys at Lumin can't or won't be doing in the future.

 

My suggestion would be to focus on amplifiers that have switchable or variable sensitivities on their inputs like some Bryston amps have (at least the couple that I have used).

[FIndingit]

41 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

This is a potentially dumb question. I have an A1 and been using the Leedh volume control to connect directly to my amp. I am looking at potentially changing amps and noticed that the A1 has a max output on RCA of 2 VRMS.  Many amps have an input sensitivity of between 2 and 3 VRMS to drive to full output.  Is there any potential mod to increase the max VRMS over the RCA outputs? I suspect the answer is no but just wanted to check.

  I do recognize that the newer models went to 3 VRMS on RCA and 6 VMS on XLR. Thanks

 

XLR to rca cable is the potential mod. 

[One and a half]

26 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

This is a potentially dumb question. I have an A1 and been using the Leedh volume control to connect directly to my amp. I am looking at potentially changing amps and noticed that the A1 has a max output on RCA of 2 VRMS.  Many amps have an input sensitivity of between 2 and 3 VRMS to drive to full output.  Is there any potential mod to increase the max VRMS over the RCA outputs? I suspect the answer is no but just wanted to check.

  I do recognize that the newer models went to 3 VRMS on RCA and 6 VMS on XLR. Thanks

 

The 2V came into being with CD players, due to the high dynamic range (ho, ho) compered with the usual 0.775V  at the time. I wouldn't worry too much, after all, the amp has to be sensitive enough to reproduce really quiet passages as well as full loudness without overloading. Please have a look again at the sensitivity figures as often they are confused with maximum input or something else when publishing figures of irrelevance.

 

Here is a spec for the Accuphase C-2850 pre amp an has the sensitivity of 63mV for rated output of 0.5V.

 

 

For a power amp from the same company, the figures for full rated output based on the input signal. The maximum gain for this amp is 28db and selectable to -12, -6, -3 db from that maximum level.

 

 

Since even loud output is really only a few watts worth of power (coming from the speakers) , there's plenty of gain, sometimes too much from amps these days. Higher power is to overcome the efficiency of the speaker. There's a lot more of course for power amps to control speakers, so that's another story.

 

I think you will be OK.

[DrNikonian]

I have T1 Lumin,  which connected with Cambridge Audio integrated amplifier CXA 80 through XLR cable. It sounds nice.

I am planning to upgrade  into powered amplifier such as Cambridge Edge W. Do you think Lumin T1 good enough as a DAC and pre-amp to driver a powered amplifier? 

 All advise would be highly appreciated, as Cambridge Edge W is an high end and expensive device? Does it deserve to upgrade?

Thank you very much in advance.

[vintageaxeman]

35 minutes ago, DrNikonian said:

I have T1 Lumin...
...I am planning to upgrade  into powered amplifier such as Cambridge Edge W. Do you think Lumin T1 good enough as a DAC and pre-amp to driver a powered amplifier? 
 

I also use a T1. It is very ‘musical’ as well as being detailed and having a wonderful tonal balance. I use the XLR outputs directly into an ATC preamp and it sounds terrific. I prefer using it through the preamp rather than direct to my large active speakers. Its internal DACs are excellent. The T1 benefits from good physical isolation (feet, stand, mass on top, etc.)

It would cost a lot (probably 3 times what I paid for it used) to better it, I feel.

[DrNikonian]

7 minutes ago, vintageaxeman said:

I also use a T1. It is far more musical. As well as being detailed and having a wonderful tonal balance. I use the XLR outputs directly into an ATC preamp and it sounds terrific. I prefer using it through the preamp rather than direct to my large active speakers. Its internal DACs are excellent.

Hi there, 
I am thinking to use my current amp as a preamp and drive it into powered amp. Agree with you, it could be costly!

[thingswelike]

9 minutes ago, DrNikonian said:

Hi there, 
I am thinking to use my current amp as a preamp and drive it into powered amp. Agree with you, it could be costly!

In that case there are no technical problems. It should sound great.

However, most of the criteria involved when choosing a power amplifier are to do with matching to your speakers. Making sure they are a good match for each other would be my priority.

[wklie]

On 10/20/2020 at 6:03 AM, Roy Boy said:

This is a potentially dumb question. I have an A1 and been using the Leedh volume control to connect directly to my amp. I am looking at potentially changing amps and noticed that the A1 has a max output on RCA of 2 VRMS.  Many amps have an input sensitivity of between 2 and 3 VRMS to drive to full output.  Is there any potential mod to increase the max VRMS over the RCA outputs?

 

1. Upgrade to T2 
2. I don't know if there is some XLR to RCA converter that can make the RCA output 4V rms if the the XLR input is 4V rms
3. Use an active preamp

[wklie]

@Roy Boy I forgot to say that if you're looking at changing amp, you really should put balanced input as a requirement.