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18 hours ago, Ropet said:

Initially after I bought U1 Mini, I had frequent issues with my USB cable lost contact with the dac when turning on/off the kitchen fan or when my wine cooler turned on/off. Eventually I gave up and used AES/EBU instead with no issues of what so ever. 

 

After the last upgrade to 13/13a I decided to give the USB a new try. I have no played with my Nordost USB since the upgrade with no hick-ups at all. No lost contacts like before, not a single one! I can now enjoy my DSD files again without convert to PCM. On top of this I think the latest upgrade gives a more distinct sound stage. 

 

Could it be that the 13/13a makes the USB output more stable? It seems so...🙂

The switching noise of the fan and wine cooler are generated HF noise radiated as well as conducted noise through the power cables. 

 

In the case of the fan, the wall switch can be replaced, the cooler would need a new thermostat and or cap change on the motor. Both are inexpensive repairs and that crud is still there left untreated.

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20 hours ago, One and a half said:

In the case of the fan, the wall switch can be replaced, the cooler would need a new thermostat and or cap change on the motor. Both are inexpensive repairs and that crud is still there left untreated.

Thanks, @One and a half. I will contact Bosch referring to your tip.

 

At the same time I did not have this issue with AES. I guess it is less sensitive (higher voltage?) than USB. But for USB I lost contacts many times per day during my first months with Lumin. But since approx 2 weeks using USB again it has worked with no hick ups. The only changes made is new version 13/13a. Could not USB connections be more or less sensitive against HF noise?

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18 minutes ago, Ropet said:

Thanks, @One and a half. I will contact Bosch referring to your tip.

 

At the same time I did not have this issue with AES. I guess it is less sensitive (higher voltage?) than USB. But for USB I lost contacts many times per day during my first months with Lumin. But since approx 2 weeks using USB again it has worked with no hick ups. The only changes made is new version 13/13a. Could not USB connections be more or less sensitive against HF noise?


Did you possibly use ISO Regen between Lumin and dac before? I have it between Lumin U1 Mini and Gustard U16. Every time I switch off lights in a certain closet, I lose the connection. 

Say NO to ROON

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11 minutes ago, Ropet said:

Thanks, @One and a half. I will contact Bosch referring to your tip.

 

At the same time I did not have this issue with AES. I guess it is less sensitive (higher voltage?) than USB. But for USB I lost contacts many times per day during my first months with Lumin. But since approx 2 weeks using USB again it has worked with no hick ups. The only changes made is new version 13/13a. Could not USB connections be more or less sensitive against HF noise?

As this happens when you something turn on, or off, the sensitivity is most likely to a DC offset on the AC line.  When motors turn on, and off, there can be a momentary DC offset.  This may also happen because of home wiring problem related to your ground connections.  I would not expect this to happen with a product from Bosch, for example, so perhaps you might investigate whether the home wiring has any ground issues.  Proper grounding for AC power is always a good idea, just for general safety, so I would consider having an electrician inspect your home wiring.

 

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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10 hours ago, barrows said:

As this happens when you something turn on, or off, the sensitivity is most likely to a DC offset on the AC line.  When motors turn on, and off, there can be a momentary DC offset.  This may also happen because of home wiring problem related to your ground connections.  I would not expect this to happen with a product from Bosch, for example, so perhaps you might investigate whether the home wiring has any ground issues.  Proper grounding for AC power is always a good idea, just for general safety, so I would consider having an electrician inspect your home wiring.

 

DC offset, no, not that sinister.

When an inductor like a motor loses voltage, there's a transient voltage created which can be 2-5 times the line voltage, not so? That transient energy is destructive at the source affecting motor windings and switchgear that turns off the motor like a thermostat. 

Increased voltages breakdown the insulation of the thermostat until it fails. 

 

Coax is single ended 0.5V pp compared to ground, a transient can easily swamp that figure and overload the receiver. When @Ropet went to AES, the transient may have been only induced into one conductor, being differential, the spike would have been ignored by the receiver.

 

For USB, it's also differential, however the distances on the USB pins to the shield which is grounded are closer than the AES3 pins by a factor of some 3 times+. 

 

I agree that the grounding should be looked at in some detail as well as the wine cooler and fan switch.

Causes-and-Effects-of-Transient-Voltages.pdf

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@wklie, Peter, I use the U1 mini, I tried the Leedh Processing Volume on the unit with my analog preamp volume set at max.  When using it this way, I get a loud popping noise in my speakers when changing albums.  Is there a fix that I can do on my end to take advantage of the Leedh processing to see if it outperforms my analog preamp?

 

Thanks for your continued help.

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@hoppy100 This is probably related to your DAC.  Please turn down the analog preamp volume to usual, then stop using the Lumin digital volume by setting Volume Control to Off.  This will reset the Lumin volume and Max Volume % to 100.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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Lumin iPad Application bugs.

 

I have had some serious problems with the Lumin iPad application and would like to verify if others are witnessing the same problems.

 

1) Turning OFF LeedH volume Control during Roon (Tidal) playback results in loud crack through speakers

Roon (Tidal) playback was turned off.

 

2) Turning OFF Analog Volume Control during Roon (Tidal)

Roon (Tidal) playback continues and was NOT turned off.

 

This one is a very dangerous bug.

 

According to Lumin:

 

"When user manually switch Volume Control from On to Off, ALL current playback (playing from NAS/USB HDD, TIDAL, Qobuz, Spotify, Roon, TuneIn radio, Airplay and Multi-Room) will be stopped automatically. This is to prevent sudden change of excessive playback volume.
And LUMIN app will pop up a message (as in your screen capture) to remind user the volume setting change is effectively fixed output volume at max.
Then user must resume playback manually."

 

Can others please verify and behavior you get.

I'm using iPad with 13.5.1.

 

 

 


 

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On 6/19/2020 at 1:50 PM, wklie said:

Sorry about that.  Although a lot of effort went into preventing this from happening, please stop playback before changing volume scheme.

 

Again I'm sorry about any undesirable issues arising from volume scheme changes during playback.  Please stop playback before changing volume scheme or On/Off.

 

We will continue to test this for different usage scenarios, and make any improvements as necessary.

 

Please note that the Max Volume % setting should be set once before playback, then the setting dialog should then be closed.  Only the main volume circle should be changed during playback.  When changing the volume through the app, please exercise the same care as changing the volume of a preamp.  We recognize it's easier to make accidental changes with a tablet or phone, that's why the Max Volume % is there for speaker protection.

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

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@wklie

 

The above quote is from Li On, the X1 Product Manager.

He is stating that playback will be automatically stopped, but it isn't and that is a big problem.

 

The other problem is that the dialog is telling the user of a potentially destructive action AFTER THE FACT.

In interaction design, it is a best practice to warn the user BEFORE any potentially destructive action and allow them to course correct, if necessary.

The Lumin Application actually applies 100% volume and then tells you after the fact.

To add insult to injury it has an OK button.

Sorry, but this is never OK and because of your sloppy design, I have a blown channel on my power amp :(

 

 

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8 hours ago, EvilTed said:

@wklie

 

Luckily my amplifier manufacturer has a lifetime, no questions asked warranty.

I told him what happened with Lumin and he sent me a new amplifier module free of charge.

That's REAL customer service!

 

Excellent news regarding getting your amplifier back up and operational and I am glad you were able to get this resolved satisfactorily.

 

If I may, what brand of amplifier provides such a great warranty as I am considering replacing a couple of twenty year old amplifiers I've got in the very near future.  As an aside, I am wondering why the amplifier's protective circuits didn't kick in to protect itself from destruction?

 

Thanks for the info on your amps!

Denafrips Terminator + DAC fed by a Denafrips GAIA DDC, HTPC running JRiver MC, iFi PRO iCAN Signature headphone amp, Marantz AV8805, OPPO BDP-105 for SACD ripping, Sony UBP-X100ES for watching and listening, McIntosh MC1201s Front L/R with Bryston powering the remaining 5 channels, B&W N-801s, B&W HTM-1 in Tiger Eye, B&W 801 IIIs on the sides and in the rear, JL-F212 sub, ReVOX PR-99Mk II, Rega P10 and Alpheta 3, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Amp, Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-XC, UE18 IEMs, Sony CD3000 rebuilt, Sony VPL-VW995ES laser projector, Joe Kane Affinity 120" screen, Cables: Cardas Clear Beyond speaker, Wireworld Platinum Elite 7 RCA, custom (by me) XLRs using affordable, quality parts 🙂

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Hey guys I just wanted to update everyone that my AES out problem wasn't u1 mini's fault.  It may be a cable or dac issue. Still working it out. But I confirmed its not Lumin u1 mini. The Mini is a rock solid tank and incredibly reliable. I will be doing a review in the future of my front end on my site www.sonicvisions.org.

 

Props to Steven Huang from audiosensibility. He is an audio master, a great guy and I consider him a friend. Highly recommended.

 

Lumin you are lucky to have him as you representative. I have dealt with dozens and dozens of dealers and reps and Steven's efforts, time, care and masterful technical knowledge is truly unique and an asset to Lumin.

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I received a new X1 power cable a few days ago from Angus Leung of WestminsterLab in H.K.  Upon opening the box I received a bit of a surprise because I had read somewhere, or maybe imagined, that the Lumin X1 power supply had used a 9-pin connector.  To my surprise, the new cable had 10-pin Hirose connectors which sent a chill up my spine and I thought it might not work.  No worries as the OEM cable was also a 10-pin configuration.

 

I borrowed a friend's Keithley 2182A nano-voltmeter to do some, probably useless, measurements of the noise at the output of the X1.  I connected the meter to the X1's left channel XLR output terminated in a "dummy load" of 20kohms and played a track ripped from a "SilentCD".  The tracks on this disk are described as absolute silence and, with the OEM cable, I measured an RMS voltage level of about .0063741mv which I assume is the noise level of the output.  I then swapped in the new 0.6m Westminster cable with the optional carbon fiber wrap, played the same track and took the measurement.  The RMS value of the noise I measured dropped from .0063741mv to .0042476mv.  If my calculations are correct, that appears to be about a -3.5db drop in "noise" at the output just by changing from the long OEM to this shorter custom cable.  I am also not saying that the drop in output noise level would ever be audible, but it is just a data point, but it still caught my attention that something changed measurably.

I have listened to the system now for several days with the new cable and my initial impressions are that the music emerges from a darker, more velvety background.  Before the cable swap, I used to have to almost strain to enjoy the opening bars of Leonard Slatkin and the Orchestre National de Lyon’s rendition of Ravel’s Bolero in 192khz 24bit.  Either due to the drop in noise floor and/or increase in my system’s ability to reveal more of the low-level information, i.e. “micro dynamics” (?), brought by the WestminsterLab cable, my system now allows me to become fully involved in the music without having to ride the gain control early on in the piece.  Also, on Shelby Lynne’s “Just A Little Lovin’, also at 192khz 24bit, the cymbals shimmer a bit more to my liking and the drum rim shots seem to have quite a bit more “attack” or sharper transients in the opening sequence.   Finally, in Leopold Ludwig and the LSO’s version of Dvorak’s New World Symphony also in 192khz 24bit, the English Horn solo in the Largo, or second movement, is the best I’ve ever heard it.  Although I didn’t do any A/B comparisons to the cable I do intend to revisit that idea at some point.

 

My initial observations tell me that my overall system performance has been improved with the replacement of the OEM power cable.  As the cable runs in and if any other changes, pro or con, are noticeable I will come back with my findings.

Denafrips Terminator + DAC fed by a Denafrips GAIA DDC, HTPC running JRiver MC, iFi PRO iCAN Signature headphone amp, Marantz AV8805, OPPO BDP-105 for SACD ripping, Sony UBP-X100ES for watching and listening, McIntosh MC1201s Front L/R with Bryston powering the remaining 5 channels, B&W N-801s, B&W HTM-1 in Tiger Eye, B&W 801 IIIs on the sides and in the rear, JL-F212 sub, ReVOX PR-99Mk II, Rega P10 and Alpheta 3, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Amp, Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-XC, UE18 IEMs, Sony CD3000 rebuilt, Sony VPL-VW995ES laser projector, Joe Kane Affinity 120" screen, Cables: Cardas Clear Beyond speaker, Wireworld Platinum Elite 7 RCA, custom (by me) XLRs using affordable, quality parts 🙂

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Thanks for the information.  The actual measured reduction in background noise level out of the X1 on the shorter WestminsterLab cable that has me intrigued and speaks to possibly better shielding and/or less susceptibility to any EMI coming from my particular system configuration.

 

Whatever is happening I am liking the change.

Denafrips Terminator + DAC fed by a Denafrips GAIA DDC, HTPC running JRiver MC, iFi PRO iCAN Signature headphone amp, Marantz AV8805, OPPO BDP-105 for SACD ripping, Sony UBP-X100ES for watching and listening, McIntosh MC1201s Front L/R with Bryston powering the remaining 5 channels, B&W N-801s, B&W HTM-1 in Tiger Eye, B&W 801 IIIs on the sides and in the rear, JL-F212 sub, ReVOX PR-99Mk II, Rega P10 and Alpheta 3, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Amp, Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-XC, UE18 IEMs, Sony CD3000 rebuilt, Sony VPL-VW995ES laser projector, Joe Kane Affinity 120" screen, Cables: Cardas Clear Beyond speaker, Wireworld Platinum Elite 7 RCA, custom (by me) XLRs using affordable, quality parts 🙂

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What are you angry about?  Just askin'..  And this will be my last with you because I've learned my lesson.

Denafrips Terminator + DAC fed by a Denafrips GAIA DDC, HTPC running JRiver MC, iFi PRO iCAN Signature headphone amp, Marantz AV8805, OPPO BDP-105 for SACD ripping, Sony UBP-X100ES for watching and listening, McIntosh MC1201s Front L/R with Bryston powering the remaining 5 channels, B&W N-801s, B&W HTM-1 in Tiger Eye, B&W 801 IIIs on the sides and in the rear, JL-F212 sub, ReVOX PR-99Mk II, Rega P10 and Alpheta 3, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Amp, Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-XC, UE18 IEMs, Sony CD3000 rebuilt, Sony VPL-VW995ES laser projector, Joe Kane Affinity 120" screen, Cables: Cardas Clear Beyond speaker, Wireworld Platinum Elite 7 RCA, custom (by me) XLRs using affordable, quality parts 🙂

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2 hours ago, BlueSkyy said:

I received a new X1 power cable a few days ago from Angus Leung of WestminsterLab in H.K.  Upon opening the box I received a bit of a surprise because I had read somewhere, or maybe imagined, that the Lumin X1 power supply had used a 9-pin connector.  To my surprise, the new cable had 10-pin Hirose connectors which sent a chill up my spine and I thought it might not work.  No worries as the OEM cable was also a 10-pin configuration.

 

I borrowed a friend's Keithley 2182A nano-voltmeter to do some, probably useless, measurements of the noise at the output of the X1.  I connected the meter to the X1's left channel XLR output terminated in a "dummy load" of 20kohms and played a track ripped from a "SilentCD".  The tracks on this disk are described as absolute silence and, with the OEM cable, I measured an RMS voltage level of about .0063741mv which I assume is the noise level of the output.  I then swapped in the new 0.6m Westminster cable with the optional carbon fiber wrap, played the same track and took the measurement.  The RMS value of the noise I measured dropped from .0063741mv to .0042476mv.  If my calculations are correct, that appears to be about a -3.5db drop in "noise" at the output just by changing from the long OEM to this shorter custom cable.  I am also not saying that the drop in output noise level would ever be audible, but it is just a data point, but it still caught my attention that something changed measurably.

I have listened to the system now for several days with the new cable and my initial impressions are that the music emerges from a darker, more velvety background.  Before the cable swap, I used to have to almost strain to enjoy the opening bars of Leonard Slatkin and the Orchestre National de Lyon’s rendition of Ravel’s Bolero in 192khz 24bit.  Either due to the drop in noise floor and/or increase in my system’s ability to reveal more of the low-level information, i.e. “micro dynamics” (?), brought by the WestminsterLab cable, my system now allows me to become fully involved in the music without having to ride the gain control early on in the piece.  Also, on Shelby Lynne’s “Just A Little Lovin’, also at 192khz 24bit, the cymbals shimmer a bit more to my liking and the drum rim shots seem to have quite a bit more “attack” or sharper transients in the opening sequence.   Finally, in Leopold Ludwig and the LSO’s version of Dvorak’s New World Symphony also in 192khz 24bit, the English Horn solo in the Largo, or second movement, is the best I’ve ever heard it.  Although I didn’t do any A/B comparisons to the cable I do intend to revisit that idea at some point.

 

My initial observations tell me that my overall system performance has been improved with the replacement of the OEM power cable.  As the cable runs in and if any other changes, pro or con, are noticeable I will come back with my findings.

I think something is wrong with your measurements.  The noise floor of the DAC while playing with a 16/44.1 bit file (you said the silence track is ripped from CD) should not be able to rise above the inherent noise floor of the quantization noise of the CD source-that is, I would expect the noise floor of a DAC at the level of the X-1 to be lower than that of a Redbook CD.  I think you would need a 24 bit "silence" source file to see any kind of a difference here.  With most of the good DACs I have heard here, the higher noise floor of CD vs 24 bit material is quite audible....

 

@EvilTed: If this aftermarket cable is sleeved in carbon fiber, it is indeed shielded.  Carbon fiber can be a very effective shield, it is highly conductive, and it is also capable of absorbing and dispersing RF energy (hence stealth technology).

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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@barrows

 

It is a carbon fiber sleeve, so it is NOT electrically shielded (in that it is not connected to ground at either end).

Yes, it may provide some benefit, but not as much as a traditional screened cable which uses a metal braid that is connected electrically to ground.

 

The other point is that if Lumin X1s designers used unscreened cable in their umbilical and designed the PSU to be set within mm of the side of the DAC, I doubt that there is much chance of noise bleeding in over the DC cable, unless you are operating an old drill or something on the same mains circuit.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, barrows said:

I think something is wrong with your measurements.  The noise floor of the DAC while playing with a 16/44.1 bit file (you said the silence track is ripped from CD) should not be able to rise above the inherent noise floor of the quantization noise of the CD source-that is, I would expect the noise floor of a DAC at the level of the X-1 to be lower than that of a Redbook CD.  I think you would need a 24 bit "silence" source file to see any kind of a difference here.  

Hi Barrows.  I am not savvy enough to understand fully what you are saying and I will defer to you.  I did confirm the files were 44.1khz 16bit and not 24bit.  I wonder if JRiver MC could have manipulated the files it was streaming to the X1?  I'll check that later.  Inn any event, the readings are what I got and will probably go back to confirm the measured change at some point further along with the cable.

 

Maybe not playing anything would have been a better idea?

Denafrips Terminator + DAC fed by a Denafrips GAIA DDC, HTPC running JRiver MC, iFi PRO iCAN Signature headphone amp, Marantz AV8805, OPPO BDP-105 for SACD ripping, Sony UBP-X100ES for watching and listening, McIntosh MC1201s Front L/R with Bryston powering the remaining 5 channels, B&W N-801s, B&W HTM-1 in Tiger Eye, B&W 801 IIIs on the sides and in the rear, JL-F212 sub, ReVOX PR-99Mk II, Rega P10 and Alpheta 3, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Amp, Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-XC, UE18 IEMs, Sony CD3000 rebuilt, Sony VPL-VW995ES laser projector, Joe Kane Affinity 120" screen, Cables: Cardas Clear Beyond speaker, Wireworld Platinum Elite 7 RCA, custom (by me) XLRs using affordable, quality parts 🙂

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