LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[LuminProac]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:36 PM, wklie said:

a. If a unity gain cannot be found, please turn down the Lumin volume and turn up the amp volume.

 

b. Right.

I am new to this forum. I recently got a lumin t2. I have a cxa81 integrated to which t2 connects via a xlr. Would appreciate tips on the right settings. Given that cxa81 does not have unity gain which you recco on the connecting amplifiers, 1.Should Leedh be kept on or off given I am connecting to the pre of cxa81?
2. Should Analog output level be set to normal or low? With normal, three steps from zero on the through the amp remote comes across as loud

3. Should volume control be on or off?
3. If on, at what gain level should it be set?

 

Just by switching between these options, I am unable to discern the right settings. Thanks in advance

 

Amit

 

 

[LuminProac]

2 hours ago, wklie said:

 

1,3. For your case (T2 analog output), please keep Volume Control and Leedh Processing Volume turned on.

 

2. Set Analog Output Level to Low.  With this settings X1 T2 output 2V rms to the XLR, and 1V rms to the RCA.

 

4. If Lumin volume 100 at Low setting still does not give you a sufficient useful range of the preamp volume control, then you can further reduce the Lumin volume.

 

Alternatively, if you don't need to use other inputs of the amp, you may exclusively use the Lumin volume instead of the preamp volume.

Got it. Thank you. This did the trick. This let's me operate by setting the preamp volume between 9 o clock - 10 o clock and control the desirable loudness from the lumin app. I am assuming changing lumin volume is not adversely impacting

the dynamics and microdetail being output from lumin to cxa81(very hard to tell by ear). Thanks again.

 

Amit

[LuminProac]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

What we need to do is match the T2 to the sensitivity of the amplifier. Looks like the sensitivity on the amp is way high as only a few notches and there's full power.

I had a look at the Cambridge website, but doesn't show how much voltage is required for full output, bummer.  Neither does the Lumin, what gives here?

 

Try this.

 

Set the Leedh to 10% output. Analog out to low. Set the amp volume to zero. Play something very easy & low dynamic range  content like Katy Perry, DR of 2.

Gradually increase the volume on the amp to setting say 10 o'clock max.

If the volume is too soft, increase the Leedh a little at a time. 10 o'clock on most amps is about rated. Keep going on the Leedh until it's REALLY loud and undistorted, and you're done.

 

It's also possible to connect a Coaxial cable <3m from the T2 to the amp. There's no volume control necessary, set the Leedh to 100% or off. Could also try USB, err, the transmission needs a fixer to control the noise, then the SQ becomes tolerable.

 

From both either anlaog or digital methods, you can pick which DAC you like best, the one in the T2 or the amplifier. 

Thank you for the suggestions. I will try with a coaxial cable and check. Anyways it would be cool to do a/b between lumin and cxa81 dac.. An things being constant. Will give usb also a shot. I have my entire 2 tb collection hosted through  Plex media server and earlier rendered through Google CCA and now to T2. Significant difference between CCA through cxa81 dac. Will try and also connect directly from lumin to cxa81 and check. That being said the main purpose to get T2 was to better the cxa81 dac I already gave

[LuminProac]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

Yes, level matching is becoming more of a problem than it should be. There are some insane DAC outputs like 10V, when most pre-amps or even power amps have a 2V maximum to full scale. Even 4V on XLR for an old DAC still gives me problems. For legacy amplifiers, the levels are less at 0.775V. 

 

Without causing an expectation to arise, the Lumin T2 has a firmer control on power supplies and shielding than the cxa81 would have, the advantage is already there, but you never know.  Allow quite a few hours on the Lumin to settle in, give it at least a week or two.

I agree. Playing through the T2 with the amp off when I am not even listening. Already like what I hear

[LuminProac]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

Yes, level matching is becoming more of a problem than it should be. There are some insane DAC outputs like 10V, when most pre-amps or even power amps have a 2V maximum to full scale. Even 4V on XLR for an old DAC still gives me problems. For legacy amplifiers, the levels are less at 0.775V. 

 

Without causing an expectation to arise, the Lumin T2 has a firmer control on power supplies and shielding than the cxa81 would have, the advantage is already there, but you never know.  Allow quite a few hours on the Lumin to settle in, give it at least a week or two.

I agree. Playing through the T2 with the amp off when I am not even listening to let the voicing settle in.  Already like what I hear. I went from CCA > CXA81 to T2, a big jump(cost wise for sure) But I have done this with my speakers too(straight to proacs, energy veritas and tannoys revolution series) 

[LuminProac]

21 minutes ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Hi, I have CXA81 amp with Limin U1 mini transport. For my case I do not use leedh processing in order to have a bit perfect sound. So the volume is controled by the amp. I use the DAC's amp via USB male A to male B. Your case is completely different since you use the DAC of T2. I am very satisfied by the Lumin U1 mini but I am not satisfied by the DAC's amp. So, I would like to know your experience of T2 DAC when bypassing the DAC's amp.

Hi, Makes sense. So you are using u1 mini to connect to cxa81's dac. So you are not satisfied with the dac on cxa81 or the pre section or the power section of cxa81? Bit confused with what you mean by the dac's amp. My initial experience has been good. I am still in process of getting all the right cables and connectors to be able to compare usb, lumin dac, cxa81. Will take some time till I reach a conclusion. But so far, so good! Currently I find the overall sound signature maturing with an initial warm signature to a more neutral analogish sound with a tad warmth still being there. I guess this is the pre and power section of cxa81. I am also considering adding a lexicon GX7 power and use the pre of cxa81 to connect. It does sound a tad less warm with a veil being taken of from the highs. Not sure, still thinking. I want to hear the evolved state of my current gear before I make any additions to my setup

[LuminProac]

1 hour ago, nikolaos1969 said:

Since, I bought the amp a year ago I have been playing only digital via usb cable. I have started with foobar2000, plex, jriver, rpi4 and then decided to upgrade getting the lumin u1 mini. Beautiful app, but the sound is so electrical. Playing a violin or piano the sound comes through my ear so digital. The amp will give all of its power until 11 o' clock. After that the sound does not increasing at the rate you open the volume until 12 o clock. Please check 

Hmm.... What you are referring to is called digital glare which I have heard in many implementations.  Strange as T2 is sounding analogish already and I feel it will only get better in a few weeks. I had problem on the other end spectrum where three steps up from zero on the cxa81 remote was too much for night time listening with  which I posted about. Changing volume from normal to low helps achieve volume matching between T2 and cxa81 pre.

 

How old is your cxa81? I have had it for a year and was using Google CCA via mini toslink cable to stream. I really really like how the cxa81 sound settled from it being a little edgy initially. A lot of ess dac implementations are initially bright, harsh and have that digital glare. But when they settle in, they sound so so sweet. I never felt the need to change that dac. Getting a T2 has just been about me being flirtatious. Been happily married to my current setup otherwise for a year. Yes and for my 15 by 20 feet from size I have never exceeded 10 o clock on cxa81 volume with 100% volume in from force. Just not possible. There is something else going on with your source

[LuminProac]

3 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

I bought CXA81 a year ago. My system comprises by a qnap file server in which I have installed minimserver the streamer the amp and the floorstanding monitor audio silver 500. My room is 55 sq2 and when I need more power the amp can not cover more than the half of the room. Yes, I can confirm it is punchy and digital at the beginning of playback. But in a room of 20 -25 sqm which means in 4 -5 m of  hearing distance the amp is good. I am thinking of getting an external DAC. I would like to use AES EBU but the amp does not have such inputs.

Seems the issue is the power section and not the dac. You can try factory reset for cxa81 one and check. If that doesn't help, adding a power amp through the pre out of cxa81 should do the trick. I have a 15 * 20 ft living room and the cxa81 power suffices

[LuminProac]

Well... From where is my money gone when I first plugged T2 in to an unending woaaaaah, wow wow wow last night and today. This is such a beautiful, analogish, tad warm, a lot sweet, intricate sound handling nuances and micro detail so well. Love how my treble sounds now. Sweet sounding highs from proacs and those lush mids all fed from this dac is something eh...I feel like I have changed multiple components in my chain.

 

 This stirs up emotions, as intended by music and lets you get lost in it. Dunno how the T2 measures and seriously don't care. I actually want it to measure poorly to have the dichotomy of yet it sounding so good. Digital kit not sounding digital eh? Nice. And as I able to switch between 3 dacs in my current setup during a song, comparison is very easy. Good stuff Lumin. Can't wait to see if we are going higher from here

[LuminProac]

18 hours ago, Mikk said:

I would love the opportunity to be a beta tester. I have a LUMIN U1 mini, and use Tidal for almost all my listening.
My current routine is to use Tidal with airplay, to discover new music and keep up to date with new releases, then use the LUMIN app for critical listening. I’ve been hoping the Tidal Connnect feature was on its way, as it’ll really make things easier for me to stay within Tidal  for all listening.

The only other ‘dream’ feature would be some EQ facility within the Lumin app!

Thanks.

+1 to some kind of digital tone controls even if they are similar to how Google has for Chromecast audio. I used to use + 1 on treble and -1 on bass. This was perfect for my setup. Though I am still burning T2 in, I would like a tad more brighter or less warmer sound

[LuminProac]

Any plans to add a widget for Android in your future releases?

[LuminProac]

10 minutes ago, BlueSkyy said:

Lumin engineers, both hardware and firmware, spent tons of time perfecting the sounds of their components.  Volume control capabilities aside and maybe it's just me and I certainly could be wrong, but I don't see Lumin going down the rabbit hole of attempting to electronically alter the sound, i.e., implementing equalization capabilities, in any of their devices.  For me, it's all about room treatment and speaker positioning within the room if I find that I can't live with the sound I am getting.

What we hear is not only the dac/ streamer but mainly the music, its mix, mastering and production quality along with rest of the gear in our chain. Based on most gear, EQ, tone controls help tweak. Its like adding salt pepper as per taste. I find most recordings and speakers out there too warm. 

 

The other way to tweak the overall presentation is with cables..but that's expensive and experimental

[LuminProac]

1 hour ago, wklie said:

 

In what ways would it be beneficial?

I have been a big user of bubble upnp for years. Once I select my playlist, unless I want to change the playlist or select another song from my current playlist... All I need is to access the play, pause, stop, previous track, next track, vol +, vol - features which are on the bubble widget on homescreen. This ensures I don't have to keep opening the app for frequently required adjustments.

 

Similarly, my homescreen is a single screen with all my apps categorised in respective folders like Tools, Utilities, Finance, Streaming, etc. This helps ensure I have everything available on one screen. Thats how I gave organised my apps on the  android phone. 

 

Also muting and resuming playback after a phonecall is a great feature. Another one is letting phone volume hardware keys control the lumin volume.

 

All these add to the user interaction and experience. Thanks for asking

 

[LuminProac]

54 minutes ago, wklie said:

Lumin Tidal Connect beta firmware for T2 / X1 / U1 / U1 MINI has been sent.

How do I get it?

[LuminProac]

20 hours ago, wklie said:

Lumin Tidal Connect beta firmware for T2 / X1 / U1 / U1 MINI has been sent.

Flashed the firmware. And Tidal's been playing perfectly since morning, no issues

[LuminProac]

On 7/6/2021 at 5:52 PM, wklie said:

A new beta firmware for Tidal Connect for Lumin X1 / T2 / U1 / U1 MINI have been sent, with a few Tidal Connect bug fixes, and Roon RAAT playback is changed.

Flashed. Running smooth. In the previous version, tidal app was hogging memory, heating up phone. Didn't report it as I attributed it to tidal and not lumin. Will monitor if that's improved in this version.

 

That leedh icon on startup is something new or was already there? 

[LuminProac]

Is there a recco on XLR interconnects for T2? Currently using mogami silver. Getting a linn balanced XLR to try out. But is there a general consensus of something out there that tweaks the sound to make it a tad more brighter, transparent? 

[LuminProac]

In areas of my house where network gets weak, sometimes I would have connection drops when connected through the lumin, bubble upnp app. But through tidal connect, it stays connected. These are zones where webpages take extra couple of seconds extra to load. Any technical reasons why tidal connect would be superior over casting?

[LuminProac]

Hi Peter,

 

I picked up a 7 channel lexicon GX7 recently with the goal of adding some muscle to both my denon 3600 av receiver and my two channel Cambridge. 

 

I am currently connected: T2 - cxa81 - lexicon. 

 

Will this sound better? T2 - lexicon

 

The reason i ask is.. Its not as simple as  'try it out' for me as all my cables including interconnects run inside a wooden panel with all the amplifiers sitting within the wall mounted wooden cabinets. Any change in connection is a painful task. Will do it if its worth it.

 

Thanks,

-a

[LuminProac]

55 minutes ago, Mikk said:

 

So hard to say which is a ‘better’ option. Probably much of a muchness unless there particular qualities of each unit you like or dislike. 

I think it’s worth noting though that the audio quality of the Lumin could really shine with higher quality options than the ones you’ve listed. Obviously this may not be possible, but thought it worth mentioning as a 15 year old multi-channel Lexicon seems like a sideways step more than an upgrade?!

 

Thanks. However, I did a home demo of lexicon for a week paired with t2 before getting it for a very fair price. 

 

My question was.. Do I connect lumin directly or through the cxa81 considering the analog audio output level of lumin goes through the preamp's volume on cxa81 and then connects to lexicon in one case and  directly to lexicon in another. In theory the latter should be a better option?

[LuminProac]

1 hour ago, nikolaos1969 said:

I have CXA81 and lumin U1MINI. Did u like the DAC of CXA81?

Oh yes. Its a really good dac as I am able to compare it with T2. It doesn't do mqa. But that doesn't matter. Most dac implementations in integrateds are a after thought. This one isn't. 

[LuminProac]

13 hours ago, wklie said:

 

If I understand correctly, you're using the preamp section of the CXA81 in the first configuration, with pre-out to the Lexicon power amp, and you prefer this setup to using both the pre and power amp sections of CXA81.

 

If you don't need other inputs (such as Denon pre-out), and are comfortable with app-based volume control, a direct connection from T2 will give you more transparency.  Please turn down Lumin volume before you begin music playback this way.

 

However, if you do this I fail to see how you can use the Denon to utilize the Lexicon power amp for the front speakers, or there is something with your setup that I misunderstand.

There's a speaker switch that lets me share the front speakers between denon and cambridge for movies and music respectively. You are right on all the other fronts

[LuminProac]

10 hours ago, nikolaos1969 said:

What is the difference in SQ between T2 DAC and CXA81 dac.

Best regards

Nikos

Less digital and more analog sounding yet retaining the virtues of  like prat, dynamics, details and separation. Timbre and tonality are top notch. Can do mqa and all that if you're into it. But tbh, the cxa81 dac is very good and definitely not an afterthought and I could live with it if I had to. 

[LuminProac]

Proac tablette 10 signature

Tannoy xt6f 5 channel pack

Energy veritas 2.2

Rel ht 1205

[LuminProac]

3 hours ago, wklie said:

 

Thanks to everyone’s support, our Tidal Connect certification is proceeding exceedingly well.

In both the beta versions I tested, I had zero issues of any kind..I connected and it stayed connected without any drops. Not sure if there was anything else to be checked and reported. 

 

Good to know on the certification. When I started looking for a steamer/dac, I shortlisted T2, element x and musicbook source. The other two didn't have spotify connect and there was no clarity when that would come. So T2 became the most logical choice. I literally took the decision in 24 hrs to place my order. So happy to see constant updates and efforts to stay relevant and retain competitive advantage in the market place. This ought to be a huge differentiator for Lumin