LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[kelly200269]

I suppose every system is different, and synergy between components is a factor in any 'fit' into a system.

I use my D1 with a LDA/MCRU LPS, and IMO the results are literally breathtaking. The D1 is simply the most 'musical' digital source I have ever heard. It obliterates my Denon DCD-A100, something I was confident would never happen, and the D1 possesses a musicality and fluidity exceptionally rare in a source.

A VERY happy D1 owner here!

 

 

 

Sent from my E6653 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[kelly200269]

If/when it happens, it'll perform full decode - not just unfold, and it'll be a firmware upgrade, not hardware upgrade. Please wait for further announcement.

 

Currently, Lumin app shows Tidal Masters (MQA) category. When a MQA music is chosen, Lumin will receive and play the 24-bit undecoded MQA.

There's an article on the Linn blog that is very critical of MQA:

 

https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music

 

I tend to agree with Linn on this one. I think as music lovers we had better be 'careful of what we wish for'? To me, there is nothing wrong at all with 24-bit FLAC & DSD (where I have to).

It would seem that MQA = more money for MQA at every turn, from studios, hardware manufacturers and, ultimately for us as music lovers.

I know Linn eschewed DSD as a viable format. And, even though I chose a Lumin over a Linn for DSD playback, I think they're right about DSD in the long-term. The long-term future for high-res music lies in streaming (Qobuz/Tidal), rather than in purchasing music IMO. And streaming 24/96 or 24/192 is viable, but not with DSD.

But back to MQA. Sorry, it just doesn't make sense to me. I very much doubt that MQA will sound ANY better than my high-res purchases streamed from Qobuz on my D1. It's THAT good :-)

Maybe I'm waiting to be surprised, but I think MQA is simply a marketing fad.

 

Sent from my E6653 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[kelly200269]

I'm sure streaming hi-res from Qobuz is great for those people who reside in a country supported by Qobuz. However, the hi-res albums need to be purchased from Qobuz first, and you need the more expensive Sublime subscription.

 

Tidal, on the other hand, offers MQA music at no additional cost over HiFi subscription. This alone makes it worthwhile for Tidal users.

 

(By the way, here's a link for Tidal 60-day Free Trial:

http://tidal.com/masters )

 

Now if Qobuz offers hi-res streaming at no additional cost over their regular HiFi subscription, and most importantly, does not require prior purchase, then the whole situation will be different.

Good point. Thanks for pointing this out.

I would LOVE Qobuz to offer a 'no limits' streaming service (I'm a Sublime member myself), where I could stream everything in high-res. Maybe given time?

I just think the days of buying & downloading files to store on a NAS are probably numbered, and streaming is the way to go. Recent sales figures from the music industry would seem to support this shift, but that doesn't really apply to/include high-res music sources like Qobuz & Tidal.

[kelly200269]

D1 went back. Too bright to my ears etc. Keeping the Aries Femto. I really wanted the D1 to be the solution; it would have freed up a grand for a start, but it just isn't.

 

Everyone to their own, I suppose...? lol

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kelly200269]

Of course, goodness I hope that didn't come across the wrong way. I really wanted it to work, but it didn't. A presentation thing for me.

No, of course not ;-) It's just that I have never experienced any excess brightness from my D1. Clarity and transparency, yes. But not brightness. But I suppose everyone's systems are different, and synergy plays a part I suppose.

 

The ONLY problem I have with my D1, is that it makes listening to any other digital source in my system almost impossible. I used to absolutely love listening to my (very good) SACD player, but the D1 absolutely trounces it. Listening to the D1, you feel like you're 'there' in the music, whereas other digital sources sound artificial by comparison.

 

I'm sorry that the D1 didn't work out for you. I'm now wondering how much better an A1 or S1 would be in my system, but I'm scared I would 'crack' if I heard one! lol

[kelly200269]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 7:03 AM, wklie said:

New Qobuz Sublime+ allows streaming of 24-bit Hi-Res (without requiring prior purchase of the hi-res albums, unlike Sublime):

http://blogsv2.qobuz.com/qobuz-blog-en/2017/04/03/march-29-2017-our-new-announcements-qobuzisback/

 

REALLY excited about this. It will fit perfectly with my D1, and I'll have access to a load more high-res music, without purchasing first.

Qobuz say Sublime+ will be around the 350 Euro mark. Considering what I spent on purchasing high-res music from Qobuz over the last couple of years, that it is a relative bargain! Can't wait! :-)

[kelly200269]

Hi,

I now use the D1 digital out connected to a Chord 2Qute, which has a BNC input.

I use an Atlas Element BNC-BNC Digital cable, which is a true 75ohm digital cable. They sell for about £50 in U.K., depending on the length. It works perfectly, and I can't see the point in spending more than this on a digital cable, even though you can spend hundreds on this type of cable.

I must say, that however astounding the D1 internal DACs are, using the 2Qute in this way gives a welcome gain in performance. I do think that you have to go a long way to beat the D1 on it's own though. I just think the Lumin D1 is great bit of kit on its own :-)

 

[kelly200269]

Anyone got any views on the D1 vs the A1?

I absolutely adore my D1, but since I've shifted most of my music listening to steaming/Qobuz (and the L1 is superb with the D1, BTW!), I'm wondering what sort of improvement I'd get by moving up to an A1?

[kelly200269]

2 minutes ago, hcalland said:

Hi, I purchased the D1 about two years ago, toyed around with an external power source, and eventually sold the D1 and external power source for the A1. 

 

I think the D1 sounds great. However, I couldn't do a side by side comparison as I sold the D1 and shipping it before purchasing the A1, but I can't say I heard a huge increase in fidelity. Obviously there is some, as the A1 is 3x the cost of the D1. 

 

The A1 is sexy in appearance, larger and has an external power source, a big plus in my decision to purchase it over the D1. 

 

Herb

Thanks Herb.

I also use an external LPS (MCRU LDA, made here in UK) with the D1, which gives it a boost.

A complicating factor with my setup is that I've also played with sending the digital coax output from the D1 to a Chord 2Qute DAC. This does, on balance, I think improve on the D1 on its own, although it may be more down to a different ' presentation', rather than a simple boost in performance. The 'jury's still out' with this, as the Chord has a very explicit, dense presentation, and I think the more 'laid back' presentation of the D1 appeals for some listening.

I did think about getting an A1 to replace both the D1 & 2Qute, if the performance gains are there.

[kelly200269]

18 hours ago, mav52 said:

I've got the D1 and the A1, with my external power supply my D1 sounds just as nice as the A1 and a whole lot less in cash outlay.

Cheers for that! :-) I really appreciate it.

Might have to save my pennies for the S1 instead then (I WISH!) lol

[kelly200269]

I subscribe to Qobuz Sublime+ and I just love the seamless integration with my D1.

Is MQA from Tidal any better sounding?

[kelly200269]

3 hours ago, wklie said:

 

60-day Tidal HiFi / MQA Free Trial:

http://tidal.com/masters/

Well, BLOW ME DOWN!

I must admit, I was very biased against MQA when it was first announced/launched. After all, not ANOTHER codec, and surely the industry could agree on FLAC, DSD etc. Is this another VHS/Betamax, or Blu-ray/HDDVD battle? I was always settled on FLAC via Qobuz (or from my L1), but was thankful of my D1 for playing the few DSD files I had.

Well, with MQA I'm literally speechless! How the hell can Chicago's '17' sound as good as this? I have this album on vinyl, CD and in 24/96, but NOTHING touches the MQA version. I have the D1 decoding MQA feeding the analogue outputs, directly into my Linn preamp, and I have never heard my D1 sounding as good as this. It literally sounds like a different player.

I have also had the chance to compare other recordings, and the same findings apply: More 'depth' to rendition, more realism, and the notes seem to be clearer and 'stand out' more. It all adds to a much more musical experience all round.

I read an article from Linn trashing MQA, but I seriously think that they have their heads in the sand. Oh, and I forgot, their players can't play DSD and MQA, can they? ;-)

Even if Tidal doesn't survive the 'streaming wars', I hope that MQA lasts.

THANK-YOU to all at Lumin HQ for adding this feature. I'm just so glad I bought a network player from a company with visionaries who keep looking forward, rather than from some Scottish company who are stuck in the past! lol

 

[kelly200269]

2 hours ago, AZ Craig said:

Based on your experience, I signed up for the free trial as I had let my Tidal subscription run out some time ago.  While the MQA sounds great, I am disappointed over how few of their albums are available on MQA.  In total, I only see 457 albums across all genres and, naturally, many of the oldies were recorded in lower res formats.

 

I'll give it 60 days and see if they begin to offer a more robust selection of MQA offerings before I decide to just stay with Qobuz.

I've found that there are more MQA Master albums than just under the Masters tab in the Lumin app.

if you search for another artist, or look in New Releases, you should see more MQA content.

Maybe the Lumin app is still 'catching up' with the new MQA content?

[kelly200269]

8 hours ago, wklie said:

 

In case you want to read a long answer:

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mqa-time-domain-accuracy-digital-audio-quality

 

Thanks for this. It's all a bit 'over my head', but my ears seem to support what they are saying. 

Just out of interest, what's Lumin's opinion on MQA? I know you support it now, but do you feel it sounds better than Hi-res PCM?

[kelly200269]

19 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

Hi Kelly,

 

Perhaps you could give us your own opinion, though not using TIDAL as the source. This is because there's no way of telling whether TIDAL Masters MQA tracks have come from the same original source as any hi-res conventional PCM version of the same tracks you may already have. Certainly the suspicion, by some, is that the majority of the 16/44.1kHz CD resolution TIDAL HiFi tracks are not derived from the same source as the TIDAL Masters MQA tracks.

 

However, using the free files available to download from 2L Label's test bench, you can confidently make a direct comparison, as all the available resolutions and encodings, including MQA, have been confirmed to have been derived from the same DXD source:

2L High Resolution Music .:. free TEST BENCH

 

An interesting comparison would be fully decoded MQA vs all available hi-res & CD resolutions of the stereo 'normal' FLAC files (including DXD).

Another one, perhaps, would be to compare undecoded MQA with CD resolution FLAC.

 

John

Hi John,

Yes, I take your point concerning the 'origin' of the files, both MQA and standard Hi-res FLAC files.

I have many of the MQA Masters as 24/96 stored on my L1, and comparing the two is interesting. The MQA Masters seem less 'blured' and less 'mushy'? It's as if the MQA Master has 'snapped' the music into focus. I'm hearing details in the music that I haven't heard before, and timing seems much improved. It's a little like the difference between 16-bit, and 24-bit files. 

I was using the Digital-out from my D1 to feed a Chord 2Qute DAC for listening before, as I thought this improved on the D1's output, but I think MQA straight from the analogue-outs of the D1 now sounds better, when comparing the same pieces of music.

I was very cynical of the promises MQA made, but after (albeit brief) listening, I'm now a convert.

[kelly200269]

MQA is controversial, and it seems that it has it's 'haters' as well as people who like it.

I've listened to a lot of MQA since Lumin were kind enough to support it, and it has genuinely surprised me.

Putting the 'science' aside, whether-or-not it's 'lossey' etc, when I listen to MQA, and compare it to a High-Res 24-bit stream of the same album from Qobuz (I subscribe to Qobuz Sublime+, as well as Tidal Hi-Fi), to my ears and in my system, MQA does sound better in a lot of cases.

 

[kelly200269]

3 minutes ago, mav52 said:

Maybe we just want to hear MQA for ourselves instead of having others tell us MQA is crappy.

Thank-you to Lumin for allowing us to do that :-)

[kelly200269]

1 hour ago, ThierryNK said:

Hi

 

You talked earlier about "Chicago 17"

There are at least 6 different masterings of this album as you can see here: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=chicago+17

 

Do you know which mastering you compare between MQA, Hi-Res, etc?

 

 

You are fully allowed to put science aside.

 

You are also allowed to scratch your head wondering how taking off information can lead to "better".

As I said before, on a lot of systems, MP3 sounds better than 16/44.

 

A small trick to finish with. 

As you use a Lumin D1, you should activate PCM/DSD conversion.

Not because DSD is a better format than PCM, but because the WM8741 chip is more noisy on PCM than on DSD as you can see on a simple diagram as this one 

 

Kind regards

I take what you mean about Chicago's '17'. I've also tried other albums, such as Prince's recent remaster of 'Purple Rain' (24/96) and Paramore's 'After Laughter' (24/96), and in these two cases, IMO MQA Tidal Master sounds better.

And thanks for the info about the D1. I'll give it a try. 

[kelly200269]

This thread is about Lumin players, rather than MQA.

Lumin is now compatible with MQA. MQA is just an added feature of Lumin players.

Let's allow people to decide about MQA with their ears, and stay focused on the Lumin product itself, rather than be distracted by MQA?

Like a lot of things in life, some people will love MQA, and others will not. 

But as to Lumin? I think it's a great player, and I thank the folks over there in HK for producing such a great product.

唔該

[kelly200269]

19 hours ago, wklie said:

Firmware 9.03 improves buffering of music data, especially for Tidal / Qobuz, even though recent Tidal issues are not restricted to Lumin players.

 

It also fixes a TuneIn radio time counter display issue.

 

Update of the release notes will have to wait for the responsible staff to come back from business trip.

I’ve been reading on the Linn forums that Tidal is also dropping-out at the moment with their DS players.

Tidal should get their act together.

[kelly200269]

Hi, this is a quesrion for Peter Lie:

I have A D1, and when streaming MQA streams from Tidal, the stream isn’t gapless, and there is a distinct break between tracks. This is especially irritating with classical music, and doesn’t happen when streaming the same piece of music in high-res from Qobuz.

Will there be a fix for this sometime soon? Thanks.

[kelly200269]

11 hours ago, wklie said:

Gapless playback is enabled for Lumin playback of Tidal and Qobuz 16/44.1 FLAC tracks.

 

Gapless playback has been disabled for Tidal MQA tracks on purpose, because so many Tidal users had problems with Tidal stuttering in some regions in recent months, regardless of what hardware they use.  Having gapless playback will make it even worse, because gapless playback needs even more bandwidth and puts further pressure on the Tidal content delivery servers.

Thanks for this Peter.

I DO hope that once the issues with Tidal are sorted, that you reinstate gapless for MQA? It makes listening to classical impossible!

Thanks again.

[kelly200269]

22 hours ago, wklie said:

 

As requested, Tidal gapless MQA is reinstated in Firmware 9.05.  It also improves the sound quality of MQA for Lumin A1 / T1 / D1 analog outputs.

Thanks Peter!

I can't tell you how much I appreciate this

Thanks again.

[kelly200269]

Well, I’ve eventually ‘bit the bullet’ and done what I’ve been thinking about doing for the last year since buying my beloved D1: I’ve bought an A1!

It arrives this week. Can’t wait to start rediscovering my music collection again :-)

[kelly200269]

3 minutes ago, airguitar said:

Man I am lapping it up with the first play from my SoTM sMS-200 ULTRA !!

 

I'm getting amazing sounds through this little miracle (sMS-200 ULTRA - Croft 25 pre / 7 power - Role Audio Enterprise speakers.)

 

 

I think you’ve posted in the wrong thread?

This thread is about Lumin.