LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[Audio_ELF]

`

"The World's first Universal Audiophile Network Music Player!"

 

I know what a Network Music Player is, but what's a Universal Audiophile?

I think you split it wrongly...

 

It's Universal as it plays DSD as well as FLAC, WAV, AIFF, etc.

 

I guess it's a competitor to Linn and Naim and PS Audio (Bridge).

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

pmse: I'm assuming from your comments that you are the developer / manufacturer / seller of the LUMIN. If so can I just make a couple of comments on your posts.

 

First off, welcome to ComputerAudiophile.com I'm sure you'll find we're a friendly lot. Having said that many commercial interests have found we can be a prickly bunch when people try to promote their products beyond answering questions we have. On that note I think that comments you make similar to these in your last post don't really wash here...

A friend with a EMMLab SACD player now use the LUMIN because the same DSD file ripped from his SACD sounds much better than the real SACD disc playing on his SACD player!

 

Last Sunday I helped a friend setup his LUMIN because the sound is better than his Wadia Series 9 decoding computer!

 

I understand (audiophile) sound quality is very much personal. I believe the LUMIN can hold it's own place! Try it and you may like it!

While I have no reason to doubt these examples, they are rather close to self promotion and you may find such comments backfire on you. Give us the facts and the opportunity to test the LUMIN and leave it at that (the third paragraph I quoted is okay actually and does just that).

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Well, the cases look tremendously similar, but the parts on the board are no where near the same.

 

I didn't think the cases really looked similar either...

 

As you say the parts aren't similar - doesn't the LUMIN use Burr Brown / TI DAC and the Linn use Wolfson (IIRC). Okay they use the same DAC chip, and have the same output transformers - but the rest of the board doesn't really look similar (IMO)

 

Sounds like someone is making an issue about something that doesn't exist.

[Audio_ELF]

OK, so apart from the DAC chips, the output transformers, the transformer drive circuit, the output relay, the connectors, and the case construction, what have the Romans ever done for us? they are completely different.

Luka - do you have some knowledge that LUMIN have ripped off Linn's design? If so I think you should present it otherwise I think this is a non-issue and is a serious accusation.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

I have only the photographs I linked to earlier. I have tried to decipher the Klimax DAC circuit from photographs for my own homebrew DAC project. That's why the Lumin DAC circuit caught my eye. If you look closely, and with a bit of electronics knowledge, you will see many similarities.

Yes, but similarities don't mean one is a copy of the other.

 

There are only so many ways to layout a circuit board using best practices; and it maybe both use a reference design laid out by a chip manufacturer (for example).

 

I will agree the case design is quite similar - a case (pun unintended) of Linn inspiring the LUMIN perhaps. But accusations of copying are quite serious.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Luka, your two relevant posts are...

Is the Lumin DAC stage from Linn? From the pictures it looks a lot like the Klimax DS.

More than a bit similar I think . Have their lawyers been in touch yet?

Personally I find the implication (if not directly an accusation) to be you are suggesting that LUMIN have copied Linn.

 

May I ask you directly I you have some kind of axe to grind considering you have made 6 posts on this forum, all in this thread and (to my mind) all of them of a negative nature?

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

-if my wireless router can accept USB disk and run it as file server, so can I connect it this way and Lumin can read the music files on the USB disk via LAN cable?

You need a UPnP (or DNLA) server to use the LUMIN. There are a few wireless routers (some from Netgear for example) which can provide this service; but you are likely better served by a NAS or even better a dedicated server - either running Linux such as Vortexbox or a Windows machine running Asset server.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Hi, psme!

Lumin player works only with the Lumin app?

Is it possible to use other UPnP Control Point?

Yes

[Audio_ELF]

Audio_ELF,

Which one you have tested?

I haven't tried the LUMIN... But earlier in the thread it was stated it works with other control points.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

I have tested Lumin with Linn Kinsky app and it works. Apps from other audio manufacturers doesn't works(I have installed all Freeware I found at AppStore). But app from Lumin looks better except mentioned earlier no-folder browsing and untagged files(you just can find them on the list). I have tested several app on Android tab, they works, but they are not so nice as Lumin .

Do you mean (for example) Naim nServe won't work because you have no Naim ND server?

 

If so, that's everything to do with the app and nothing to do with the LUMIN.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Just a friendly observation, and if I'm off base I apologize, but it sure seems like Lumin is receiving a lot of "free press" here that other manufacturers don't typically enjoy. This is almost like a perpetual ad for Lumin (IMHO). . . .

Similar could be said about the Mytek thread and threads for Audivana and BitPerfect (amongst others).

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Ted. I don't think you'll need to install te Synology UPnp server first. Just install MinimServer.

 

The switch looks fine.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

The keyword in all that was PC:)

 

Jesus R

I presume Jesus is saying that using a computer based setup like vortexbox (or a Windows system with Asset for that matter) actually works better than a QNAP or Synology NAS with their UPnP server...

 

The basic CAPS would be an ideal platform especially if built into a different case supporting one or more 3.5" HDD.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

@Audio-Elf

On which aspects do Vortexbox or Windows with Asset work better than other NAS?

Well I think if you go beyond a basic setup then it's going to be a lot easier to do that with a "full" operating system than with a NAS. Yes I know a lot of NAS run Linux or Windows but this isn't easily accessible to the end user for configuration.

 

The high powered (even if just an Atom) processor is also an advantage (IMO).

 

Finally a Vortexbox is price competitive with a good NAS.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

To give it it's dues; Minimserve is also quite new in developement and is getting better all the time...

 

There's no reason if you chose to use J.River as the UPnP server and controller, you couldn't put the HDD into the PC and use it as the NAS. (I've wondered about using a touchscreen Windows PC for this)

[Audio_ELF]

In a similar vein to those listed: Linn Akurate and Klimax DS and Naim NDS and NDX. I'm hearing good reports of the new T+A streamer too. The Marantz NA11-S1 is getting great reviews too.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

None of these do DSD over network.

True... But I thought the question was general streamers as several of those mentioned didn't do DSD either.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

As long as nothing changed inside LUMIN, I guess LUMIN couldn't know! From LUMIN point of view, that's just like a power cord change...

 

PS: that indeed looks very nice!

I would guess that if there was a problem with your LUMIN caused by the power supply they could refuse to fix it under warranty. Most manufacturers consider the warranty zoid if you use it with an unapproved PSU (e.g. Musical Fidelity with V-series and Naim).

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

For those of you that have used the unit, is it worth $7k?

You may want to read Chris' review...

Computer Audiophile - Lumin Network Music Player Review

[Audio_ELF]

I don't think this is bleeding edge at all. Linn has been doing this for many years. Most of the major brands of receivers have been doing DLNA for years as well. The difference with the Lumin is sound quality and it works with everything.

Thats perhaps true ... but at $4k it was a bargain, at $5.5k it was something you might take a punt on despite being a far east import, now at $7k it has to be something special to justify the risk or a question mark over ongoing support... And whether or not it is a copy of the Linn, you have to question the motives of a company who have acted the way Lumin have in the way they have promoted the device on various forums...

 

At $7k it's also up against some competition - Chord's Codex player (another DSD capable streamer which is also a USB + SPDIF DAC); Linn's Akurate and various options from Naim as starters.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Agree with your comments about price evolution and competitors.

Motives? Make business and money?

Linn copy? Linn lovers say it is very different (bad) and Linn non lovers (that I am part of) say it is very different (good).

Re Linn copy... There's another thread here recently and lots written elsewhere about how much of a copy the design is (with me defending LUMIN for the record).

 

Their "marketing" in this and other threads have been quite blatant (IMO) with promotion of how claims how it beats dcs and others coming from someone who (iirc) wasn't totally open about their commercial interest in the product.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

The Codex does DSD128. Does the Lumin?

It doesn't do DSD128 via UPnP streaming only via USB.

 

But to answer the question; as far as I'm aware the LUMIN doesn't do DSD128.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

What surprises me is that you continually get away with such blatant advertising...

 

The first part of the post, fine, but the subjective "LUMIN is the best thing out there" anecdotes are beyond what I expect Chris to allow... Obviously he is being swayed by advertising despite his protestations...

 

Eloise

I guess the flaw is on us by giving a wrong impression during the introductory period! I think I already explained this but anyway.

 

The original introductory price $4k (including worldwide express shipping) was for the brave soul, who wants the feature and can take the risk. We were almost giving out the LUMIN for free, from our point of view! Believe it or not, LUMIN production cost is high, very high!

 

Our planned regular price is $6k. It was ALOT cheaper than our competitors, and we believe LUMIN has better feature with better sound quality.

 

Then we quickly found out this is NOT the way hi-fi dealer does business! The dealer/distributor needs a much bigger margin than we thought, otherwise they simply won't sell our product. For each LUMIN sales, for them, it's a lose sale of another brand/product, which has much bigger margin than LUMIN!

 

Our dealers told us, judging from sound quality alone, they can sell LUMIN at any price, just NOT the price we thought! From dealer point of view, I guess a high margin is somewhat justify. High-end audiophile product is not like regular consumer electronic device. A dealer may sell only a few units per month. Dealer needs to manage their shop(s), do local promotion, after service etc.

 

So we have 3 choices:

- manufacture LUMIN ALOT cheaper (which is impossible!)

- forget dealership and do online direct sales

- accept dealers feedback

 

I guess time will tell if LUMIN can be a successful business!

 

Now let's tell about "worth" it, or not...

 

[blatent advertising removed]

 

Some will call me bullshit! And many simply won't care any device at >$3k. But the fact is, I believe most LUMIN users are happy with their purchase!

[Audio_ELF]

While I am a happy user started from the final moments of the introductory period, I guess it would be great if they can figure out how to make an affordable streamer for the mass market (Lumin-mini?).

 

You have a good crystal ball :~)

 

you know something we don't ?

 

Maybe :~)

Chris... That sound a little childish to me. Either you know something and can say it; or you are unable to say things so should say quiet.

 

This is post is quite unprofessional response if you ask me (not that you did).

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Can you please provide some more information about new Lumin's (S1,T1,L1)?

Have you seen Lumins! | AudioStream