LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[wappinghigh]

I've owned a Linn DS for a couple of years now. Over on the Linn forum a debate has raged on/off about why Linn has not added DSD, and the merrits for against etc. Needless to say Linn thinks it is too hard. Frankly I've never been 100% happy even network streaming 24/192 PCM...

 

Basically I think these hi end network streaming protagonist should go back to the drawing board and offer a player than plays these hi end tracks straight off an internal SSD/SSD's and at least offer Async USB in addition to streaming (out) files

 

Until I see such a player I'll wait thanks. the Bryston BDP-2 is close, but not happy with the listed file support.. Until then...... later

[wappinghigh]

Hi psme

 

In your promo of your product (and congrats on the product) you stated it was a replacement for an SACD player.

 

With all due respects not quite (yet)

 

Quality SACD players reached the point of multichannel DSD. That is straight pure DSD with no conversion to PCM. With outputs via analog 7.1. This avoided the PCM conversion required for HDMI and inherent jitter problems of the interface.

 

The other benchmark achieved with SACD players was 100% guaranteed playback of multichannel (or stereo for that matter ) no stuttering or streaming problems: because the source tracks where on a disc.

 

So im amazed someone doesn't build a true SACD equivalent player with inbuilt 940 GB SSD, or esata or thunderbolt for similar attached storage expansion. And 7.1 analog output. Then I'll buy one.

 

As I said if just streaming these DSD files was easy , i think Linn would have already done it.

 

And Yeh I know folks demand HDMI, but that doesn't mean it's the best interface....

 

Anyway you can't say it's a full replacemt for an SACD player until you offer the additional features IMHO

 

But thanks for the product. It's a great first step!

[wappinghigh]

^ so maybe we'll see the multi channel LumixII one day???

 

Bring it on. ! And thanks and congrats on your exciting new product!

 

The more DSD capable players (and now streamers) the better!

[wappinghigh]

^ ok. Well maybe you didn't precisely say it was a replacemt for an SACD player...But you did say "think of it as an audiophile SACD player" anyway.... Good luck with your product. Nice work !

[wappinghigh]

Well that's great to here that you've nailed it. Go for it man! I guess you've also mentioned youve got that USB external storage upgrade happening later to. So all bases covered.

[wappinghigh]

^ Good luck with it all Ted.

 

Right now I'm exploring how to do the 180 degree opposite of network streaming. I'm over network streaming hi rez files. As I write this, I am still getting drop outs from my Linn playing Keith Jarrett 24/96 4608 Kbps....Having battled with this for near on 2-3 years now, I'm doing the complete reverse. With double pike. I want to play the files straight off a player like the Invicta for single room (hiend) and something like the Autonomic Controls mm5 for multi room. Your turn to be a crash test dummy on streaming Ted. Oh and BTW listen to Thierry. He's right about mixing gigabit and 10/100 switches.. As a matter of interest, what is the ethernet in the Lumin? Gigabit or 10/100?

[wappinghigh]

^ When I said gigabit and 10/100 switches, I meant mixing gigabit switches and 10/100 network player interfaces (as Thierry pointed out).. Cheers

[wappinghigh]

LOL. And you guys say streaming is not difficult! What so starting the car isn't part of actual driving?

 

Let me assure you later on down the track problems will occur. A firmware update here. A third party change there. Or a power outage. Or you will add something else to your network. Or .... Yes. Of course. Once things are *finally* tweaked you might be able to play and stream hirez files. There is no denying that. The big test is months down the track. In a living, breathing, moving chaos type environment: such is my family and home network. With what is it now? Oh yeh. 10 Sonos zones. 6 Control 4. 6 computers. 3 different wifi meshes. And 20 odd other devices that randomly log onto my network...

 

That's what I'm talking about. Does one truly want your only hiend player dependant on a network in that enviroment ? As I said. I've found thru practical real life experience it doesn't work for me. It doesn't mean it's not suitable for others. Just pointing out some potential pitfalls. Good luck guys.

[wappinghigh]

psme and ted and Thierry are right though. A NAS with the media server embedded is essential. Keep the PC out of the loop. That's always been the Linn recommendation. Something like twonky running in a QNAP.... I've seen that set up work beautifully and seamlessly for months... It's just isn't for me. Because I like my library on a mac (for other reasons).... And my network is always evolving. Chris sure is right. You will need expert help with large evolving networks. For example. Want to expand? Think just popping down to the local best buy and connecting in a managed switch will solve your problems? Seen it operate beautifully at the office? Think again. Remember there are probably PhD's in some back room somewhere who have been tweaking things for hrs... Cheers.

[wappinghigh]

Well yes Jesus. You are spot on. It's also why we need large capacity SSD storage in your players

 

Look Sorry for being a PITA. But it does come down to the situation of the environment the hiend streamer will operate. And the expectations of the listener.

 

Linn back's up their product with many dealers who have had extensive training in networks etc. These are not products that should be sold out of the back of a truck, on ebay, Amazon, or even in some random hifi high street store IMHO. They need genuine support. Live and learn folks.

 

Also as some poster noted a few weeks back, and I've said before, most listeners will expect a different experience listening to a streamer in their hi rez/high end primary listening environment than out at the BBQ, or in the garage, or cooking in the kitchen..

 

From my personal experience the odd (even the frequent) network glitch, pop, or skip is not a problem in secondary listening areas because folks have a different expectation out there.. equivalent to just listening to the old "radio".. you are doing something else. Having a chat, making a salad, whatever. What you want here is a snap easy interface to get the stuff playing. That is why Sonos has been so successful. The big Q/ for me is, has someone replicated that experience in the primary listening area? Linn is certainly close. Is there a pure plug and play hirez streamer for *this* environment? I argue. Not quite (Yet). I just wish Linn et al would release a player with an internal hi capacity SSD. To take away a large component of most network problems. To stop this total obsession with having to stream everything. And always.

 

When you sit down to actually listen to music on your hiend gear...you have a slightly different expectation of the player. You expect 100% "always works" playback. Everytime. Or at least I do. Cheers.

[wappinghigh]

@Wappinghigh

If one day you want to use a network player, you do not need to move your library out of your Mac or install a UPNP Multimedia server on your Mac... You just make your music library a shared folder on the network and have it indexed by the Multimedia Server on the NAS. You will not listen to any difference, as it is tracks and not audio flux that is transmitted to the player.

 

Cheers

 

Well yes. You are correct. That is definitely a solution. No doubt about it.

 

It's just I would like to do something exactly like that but swapping the NAS share for an SSD share *within* a hirez DSD player.

 

As I said, that would take out 99% of most network "streaming" issues. It would also stop their dependence on third party software like Twonky etc. With the cost of SSD storage plummeting by the day, I seriously fail to understand why some DAC makers or hiend streamer manufactures don't just include this "option" of SSD in their players/streamers.

 

As a starter, it would increase their potential market. Surely. It would certainly make their players more versatile.

 

Cheers

[wappinghigh]

^ Yep.

 

Correct. This gets down to the nitty gritty of just how customers might use a "hiend" 24/192 DSD streamer. And where they go from there (once they purchase it).

 

Lets put up a scenario.

 

Lets say a newbie loves the idea of the Lumin. And why wouldn't you? It looks like a very fine player.

 

But he/she doesn't have a computer network. Or a NAS.

Or once they set it up themselves, they run into network problems.

Or they want to expand and get another Lumin for the second room..

They don't need to return the player in 30 days if there are issues..

 

Because All this suddenly becomes way easier (and they hang onto the player) if the hiend streamer can also play files from an inbuilt SSD or even esata. And now a 256Gb SDXC card..

 

So I simply fail to understand why these sort of streamers don't include this option.

 

I don't understand this total obsession with NAS's as the share.. because it immediately makes you prone to network and third party problems

[wappinghigh]

Keep it in house. Make an SSD on your streamer an option as the primary "share".

 

Then use *that* to share to the next Lumin or whatever..

[wappinghigh]

@ Thierry. Sure.

 

Like an SSD or SDXC card couldn't replace the function of a CD/SACD? Or be made to be a source in a similar way?

 

Nobody complained they were not "audio friendly", or stopped them selling for thousands of dollars each.

 

[wappinghigh]

^ Jesus

 

MinimServer

 

Thanks