Optimizing input to Audiolab 8200CDQ?

[iago]

It's hilarious that all this "convenience" of using the desktop computer and the iPad/iPhone remote means going up and down two flights of stairs many times a day to try to troubleshoot things!

 

This is where things like RDP, VNC and ssh enter the scene. On OS-X there should be a built-in solution for desktop sharing also :-)

[LEReid]

Is there any reason Audirvana would decide to play only the right channel? I'm having a hard time searching the topic on the Audirvana forum.

[Musicophile]

Never heard of that issue before. Are you sure it's Audirvana causing this?

[LEReid]

Never heard of that issue before. Are you sure it's Audirvana causing this?

 

I'm somewhat incredulous myself...

 

I went back to playing from CD to check if it was the system (which would be more logical--I had to send the 8200P in for repair shortly after purchase because of such a problem). No, that's fine.

 

Now I've just run up and down the 2 flights of stairs a half dozen times to test, and indeed, iTunes plays both channels and Audirvana only the R.

 

When it first happened I was playing a FLAC from a historical source, and I rationalized that it was a mono recording (not that that explanation made any sense).

 

Also, every time I start using Audirvana, there's no sound--I have to go in to preferences and select something else as Preferred Audio Device and then select back my original Preferred Audio Device, and then it plays fine.

[DavidL]

If you are seriously considering a very long S/PDIF cable be sure to use one with BNC terminations: RCA terminations on a long cable will give poor impedance matching (to 75ohm standard).

I've been using Airplay via wireless (a bridge with Airport Extreme boxes on each end) then wired (ethernet) to an Apple TV. OK only does 16/48 but sound quality via Bel Canto DAC 3 (known to have good jitter tolerance) is in the same ball park as that from a CD played in a PS Audio PWT.

[LEReid]

Okay, this is the best advice yet. In order to get really good sound from your CDQ in a computer-based system, take the alac file from your computer, burn it on a CD, and go put it in the CD tray of the player!

Audiolab 8200CDQ CD Player with Built-In Preamplifier - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

[iago]

In order to get really good sound from your CDQ in a computer-based system, take the alac file from your computer, burn it on a CD, and go put it in the CD tray of the player!

 

I presume that the files were not re-converted into Reed-Solomon, but transferred to a data CD. The player has to handle them not unlike a computer (including buffering) and forwards them directly to the DAC section (bypassing the receiver section).

 

It looks like the DAC will profit from an external USB to S/PDIF converter.

[John R Leddy]

Okay, this is the best advice yet. In order to get really good sound from your CDQ in a computer-based system, take the alac file from your computer, burn it on a CD, and go put it in the CD tray of the player!

Audiolab 8200CDQ CD Player with Built-In Preamplifier - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

 

 

Lynette,

 

There are two solutions to your unhappy experience with network replay. There are no shortcuts with my suggestions. They cost money. However, if you allow me to suggest generic systems, we can keep it cheap and simple. Some of the guys here have pretty sophisticated set-ups, but KISS works for me. Also, you'll need to accommodate assumptions on my part as I work my way through these general solutions, and adapt things where applicable to yourself. Here goes.

 

Your player/renderer can take the form of either a laptop or a network audio player/renderer.

 

The laptop would then be connected via USB to USB (24-bit/96kHz), USB-S/PDIF Convertor to Digital Input COAX1 (24-bit/192kHz), or from TOSLINK output to Digital Input OPT1 (24-bit/96kHz) if available.

 

A network player would be connected to either Input AUX, or Digital Input COAX1 if the network player facilitated Digital Out, and if the external DAC possessed a preferable sonic presentation. A network renderer would be connected to Digital Input COAX1.

 

A basic and cheap consumer-type NAS used as a back-up device would then be chosen as the default source for your music files.

 

These two components would be connected with network cable or powerline adaptors via the integrated switch within your router, or external switch if required.

 

I must admit to personally preferring network audio players, but it should be said this is by no means the only solution, and can lock the system into a set specification, which a laptop to DAC set-up tends to circumvent more readily.

 

I choose to use such a basic set-up because it possesses rock-solid stability and reliability, and I just happen to abhor over-sophistication for its own sake. However, some own the perfectly valid point of view this half the fun, but to be honest I'm only into the music.

 

This is just my personal approach to network replay.

 

Hope these suggestions help.

 

All the best,

 

John.

[John R Leddy]

`

What Hi-Fi? Awards 2012 : Music Streamers

 

Best Streamer up to £600 : Pioneer N-50

 

Best Streamer £600 - £1,000 : Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 (Product of the Year)

 

Best Streamer £1,000 - £2,000 : Naim NAC-N 172 XS

 

Best Streamer £2,000 + : Cyrus Stream XP2-QX

[John R Leddy]

`

Streaming Audio Players

 

Asynchronous USB 2 DACs

 

DSD over USB

[John R Leddy]

Okay, this is the best advice yet. In order to get really good sound from your CDQ in a computer-based system, take the alac file from your computer, burn it on a CD, and go put it in the CD tray of the player!

Audiolab 8200CDQ CD Player with Built-In Preamplifier - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

 

"In comparing CD vs DAC I was surprised by the results. First comparison was a CD against the ALAC file of the same track played back via either iTunes or PureMusic on a Mac. Sometimes I preferred PureMusic over iTunes, other times the opposite. Versus the CD I found any differences to be subtle and attributable to the USB cable being used. Don't ask me why, in theory all USB cables should sound the same. They don't. Using the Oyaide D+ Class A USB cable I could not reliably tell a difference between the original CD and the ALAC file. Through speakers it was impossible, using a pair of Denon AH-D2000 headphones via the class A headphone amp, a slight difference could be heard at times. Sometimes I preferred the CD, other times the USB input, more often I could not distinguish a difference. Out of curiosity I decided to burn the same ALAC files to an audio CD. I wasn't expecting what I heard. In every single case, the CD made from the very same ALAC files sounded better. Better than both the original CD and the ALAC files played via USB or Toslink. The added dimensionality was palpable. Subtle details in the timbre of instruments were rendered more clearly from the CD-R. Odd indeed. If you're after the truest listening experience I highly suggest this unorthodox method. As a DAC it's safe to say the Audiolab equals the performance of the built in CD player if you compare the original CD to a lossless or uncompressed file from the same CD."

 

Brian Alvarez - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity - 30th May 2011

[LEReid]

Okay, Iago, I'm on to XLD. Detecting Pregap (initial step) takes about 10x what importing a CD does in iTunes. Is that normal?

[iago]

Okay, Iago, I'm on to XLD. Detecting Pregap (initial step) takes about 10x what importing a CD does in iTunes. Is that normal?

 

Detecting gaps should take 1-2 seconds per track, but I cannot answer for XLD directly, just draw inferences from Exact Audio Copy (EAC) which I am using on a Linux machine.

 

Gap detection is tricky, EAC offer three separate algorithms and allows to relax accuracy on each. I normally use the same method for extraction, but sometimes gap detection is abysmally slow or even crashes (hangs up) EAC. In some cases choosing another method solves this problem, once in a while I have to select a less secure setting.

 

Gaps are necessary, if you want to recreate the CD from the rip (via the CUE sheet). Obtaining an accurate rip does not imply accurate gap detection.

 

Some people found that checking 'detect pre-gap' and 'extract/rip upon insertion' solved the issue. If other programs are running, that try to access the music CD, this might also present problems.

 

What you could do is skip gap detection for CDs which take a small eternity to rip. Verify that AccurateRip gives a correct result, then everything should be fine. As far as I know, undetected gaps will be added to the end of the respective track. Since this is the standard behaviour also for detected gap handling, AccurateRip should return a correct result when you ignore them.

 

The complete rip should last twice as long as with iTunes, if you use the 'test before copy' setting (recommended).

[LEReid]

I'm going back to some of my favourite recordings to get them ripped in ALAC with this new-to-me XLD (some of them were ripped to AAC years ago before I had digital input to my system). This is to prepare for some comparison listening.

 

I'm continuing to play with Audirvana, which has mercifully decided to start putting out both left and right channels again.

 

Meanwhile, I'm starting to prepare what my options are to compare, and your input (John, iago, David, Musicophile) is really helpful.

 

My brainstorm du jour is that instead of running a long SPDIF cable from a USB/SPDIF converter near my mac mini to the audio system, I could put the mac mini down with the audio system, where it will still be within bluetooth range for my keyboard and mouse, and run a long cable up to the monitor.

[LEReid]

Some people found that checking 'detect pre-gap' and 'extract/rip upon insertion' solved the issue. If other programs are running, that try to access the music CD, this might also present problems.

 

What you could do is skip gap detection for CDs which take a small eternity to rip. Verify that AccurateRip gives a correct result, then everything should be fine. As far as I know, undetected gaps will be added to the end of the respective track. Since this is the standard behaviour also for detected gap handling, AccurateRip should return a correct result when you ignore them.

 

I see an option "Don't detect pregap, ISRC and MCN" -- is that the option for skipping gap detection?

[iago]

I see an option "Don't detect pregap, ISRC and MCN" -- is that the option for skipping gap detection?

 

If it does this before the actual rip, it's understandable it takes so long. The information is in the track's sub-code and due to interleaving requires a substantial portion of the CD to be read. Switch it off for a faster rip, but I would leave it unchecked for the 'production' rip. Pregaps are the pauses (not necessarily silent) between tracks, ISRC and MCN identification numbers for track and media.

 

How long does a complete rip take? I need approximately 20-30 seconds for gap detection, 15 seconds for creating the cue sheet (which is supposed to read ISRC, but I found that only a small portion of tracks actually contain one) and 10-15 minutes for the actual rip. This is for a 'good' CD which can be ripped with variable speed. If the disk has faults (mostly due to erosion of the aluminium layer) I reduce the read speed; the rip will take approximately 45 minutes then.

 

All timings refer to EAC in 'secure' mode, reading every data twice; XLD should have a comparable behaviour.

[LEReid]

 

How long does a complete rip take? I need approximately 20-30 seconds for gap detection, 15 seconds for creating the cue sheet (which is supposed to read ISRC, but I found that only a small portion of tracks actually contain one)

 

Just checked...took 20 minutes for the gap detection.

[LEReid]

After thinking about your input, and a bit of research over the week, I think it makes sense to go the USB/SPDIF route and not spend time on comparing that to toslink.

 

So I need to plan out selecting a USB/SPDIF and relevant cables...they aren't the kind of thing you can get at the local audio store here to compare, and I'm going to bet that I'll have strong feelings about the differences among them.

 

The difference between regular USB, AirPlay, and CD is big enough to cancel out why I bought the setup I have--i.e. the first two sound nice enough, but nice enough to have been handled adequately by my old amp and speakers. I listen and think, "lovely music," but there's too much loss of detail, timbre, space, stage.

 

A local dealer can get the bel canto for me, but I don't think his supplier has any other manufacturers that do a usb/spdif. Maybe there's an online shop that would send 2-3 at once (for a good deposit). Complicated by the small country variable (Canada). I kind of like the natural limits set by local audio dealers--there were about 4 options for DAC/Amp in my price range, and the same for speakers, so it was relatively simple to test and select and not worry about what I might have got if I lived elsewhere.

 

I think my options here again are somewhat limited--I would have a hard time justifying in my mind spending more than $500 on this, although if I have to spend more to get the sound I expect from my system (what I bought it for), I guess I have to. There aren't so many usb/spdif in that price range, and they'll sort somewhat by whether they need both cables or come with one connector already in place, not needing a cable. But I'm nervous about basing a shortlist on reviews because I wonder if it's by the people with the same level of discrimination as those who reviewed the CDQ and said the USB input is great--instead of saying that the USB input negates half the value of the system!

 

That's this weekend's conundrum. I'll post a shortlist for testing and if you all have any advice--e.g. the Bel Canto mlink is the one I can get brought in by a local dealer; what would you compare it with for someone focused on classical listening, and particularly keen on timbre (nothing makes me happier than comparing instruments and thinking I'm hearing the varnish on the violin or the particular quality of one renaissance flute manufacturer vs another) and also all the usual stuff of soundstage, dynamic musicality and "being thereness"...

[iago]

Just checked...took 20 minutes for the gap detection.

 

If this is reproducible, switch off pre-gap detection. It is OK for listening if you rip to single tracks; the default behaviour of XLD (according to the release notes) is to append gaps at the end of the previous track. You will loose some information if you should ever decide to reconstitute the CD from the rip.

 

By the way, I experimented a little and found that I can reproduce this behaviour with EAC, if I 'test gaps on silence' using a CD with unusual pre-gaps. On the only CD I have with this feature, the action runs for 15-20 minutes.

[John R Leddy]

`

USB to SPDIF Converters

[Musicophile]

That's this weekend's conundrum. I'll post a shortlist for testing and if you all have any advice--e.g. the Bel Canto mlink is the one I can get brought in by a local dealer; what would you compare it with for someone focused on classical listening, and particularly keen on timbre (nothing makes me happier than comparing instruments and thinking I'm hearing the varnish on the violin or the particular quality of one renaissance flute manufacturer vs another) and also all the usual stuff of soundstage, dynamic musicality and "being thereness"...

 

As you can see from my signature, I have the mLink and am extremely happy with it. To be fair, I wasn't able to compare it to any other SPDIF converter, but at least vs. the USB of my Exposure it was night and day.

 

The Belcantos are the newest on the market, only launched a couple of months ago, so there are no comparative reviews out there yet. However, from the extensive discussions on this forum, I'd be tempted to say you'd be safe if you compare it just to the Audiophilleo 2, they have a 30 day return policy with free shipping to Canada. This seems to be the current reference mid-price USB-SPDIF converter, and would set you back $579, vs. the $399 for the Belcanto.

 

Alternatively, if your dealer has it, the Belcano uLink, which Blake on this forum just got and is extremely happy with. The difference between the mlink and the ulink is an even better clock, and optical out. Here we're talking about $699 though.

[iago]

After thinking about your input, and a bit of research over the week, I think it makes sense to go the USB/SPDIF route and not spend time on comparing that to toslink.

 

If you decide to go that route, you might be in for a pleasant surprise. I was very astonished to hear how much difference a well designed USB-to-S/PDIF interface could make with an existing DAC.

 

Regarding the run length of your link: I tried to find an exact number in this thread, but was not successful. It seems you will need something in the area of 20 m | 60 ft, which will complicate sourcing a bespoke S/PDIF cable. You could also employ high quality video cables with 75 Ohm resistance.

[LEReid]

The Belcantos are the newest on the market, only launched a couple of months ago, so there are no comparative reviews out there yet. However, from the extensive discussions on this forum, I'd be tempted to say you'd be safe if you compare it just to the Audiophilleo 2, they have a 30 day return policy with free shipping to Canada. This seems to be the current reference mid-price USB-SPDIF converter, and would set you back $579, vs. the $399 for the Belcanto.

Can they both be run without an S/PDIF cable? The Audiophileo says that explicitly (and comes with the USB cable).

 

I hadn't yet tried the Audirvana with the right settings on the simple USB cable from my laptop, so I've been doing that today. That certainly produces a more satisfactory sound quality. Still not as natural on the voice as the CD, but much closer to the CD quality.

[Musicophile]

Can they both be run without an S/PDIF cable? The Audiophileo says that explicitly (and comes with the USB cable)./QUOTE]

 

Belcanto needs an external SPDIF cable so you need to calculate this into the cost equation. Also, there's no USB cable with it.

 

However, didn't I understand correctly from your previous posts that you'd need a significant length of cable between computer and DAC anyhow?

[LEReid]

However, didn't I understand correctly from your previous posts that you'd need a significant length of cable between computer and DAC anyhow?

My idea now is to move the Mac mini and do a long cable to the monitor...taking advantage of the Bluetooth range of 30' and the open concept house....any chance that would work?