Optimizing input to Audiolab 8200CDQ?

[LEReid]

I'm comparing:

 

1) AppleTV3 streaming from mac mini (in another room) with iTunes

2) mac air with iTunes via USB (just a junk cable)

(both reading ALAC files)

3) with the original CD.

 

All I can say is it makes me want to stop ripping music and just continue listening to CDs.

 

But that's okay because I haven't started into...

 

1) Better solution for wireless streaming

OR

2) PureMusic

AND

3) Better hardwired connection between computer and CDQ.

 

Each of these avenues will itself involve testing and tweaking. So I'm hoping to find some advice on which is the best avenue to start down to get the best sound...the kind of sound I bought the system for (happy-making "I'm in the room with the string quartet" and "the 1820s piano sounds just as wonky as an 1820s piano should sound" kind of sound).

 

Abandon dreams of doing this wirelessly? Get one of those USB/SPDIF thingies? Just get a nice USB cable? Forget USB and go for TOSlink/mini-TOSlink?

 

Find a forum of 8200CDQ users who talk about this kind of thing?

 

I would be grateful for any advice anyone can share.

 

The general mac ecosystem is pretty set in stone, as is the recently purchased system below--purchased both for the sound and the rich options in digital input so that I could eventually do what I'm starting into now (adapting to the end-of-the-CD era).

[LEReid]

Thank you! I suspected as much...that the wireless part was a nice dream (at this point in time? always?).

 

I see Audirvana says it now has optional iTunes 11 integration. I think my holiday project over the next few weeks will be testing the free downloads of a few of these. But no point unless I have the right connection. Will look at the Bel Canto mlink!

 

On the USB cable front, I'm more of a sceptic, but nevertheless got myself the cheapest Audioquest 1 for the looks and 2 for the peace of mind.

 

Just after posting I saw this thread and was afeared that my simple request might start a war: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/can-changing-my-usb-cable-improve-sound-audiolab-8200cd-9451/index15.html

[LEReid]

What you did not mention is how you rip your CDs. Maybe there is room for improvement also.

...

Streaming with ATV is a different issue, because by default it re-samples everything to 48 kHz.

 

Yes, the ATV streaming is complete crap. Well, okay for background music. Huge difference in staging, separation, musicality (string quintet). The USB -- even just a cheap cable that is too long -- is better. But I just tried some Hilliard ensemble on the USB and it sounded like it was coming through on some skype-like digital distortion channel. (I exaggerate slightly.)

 

Is ripping CDs to something other than the lossless a better choice?

[LEReid]

Some recommendations, having been through a similar process earlier this year:

 

A further major improvement on my system was the USB/SPDIF thingy indeed, as you can see from my signature, a BelCanto mlink. Made a great difference on my system.

 

 

One more question--does length of cable matter once you're using this kind of device? (Open concept house; the computer is two floors directly above the stereo.)

[LEReid]

Please don't say you're using 6m / 18 ft. of USB connection?

 

No! Right now I'm testing using a laptop right up next to the stereo. But the USB cable I grabbed is longish so I'll look for a short one.

 

But I do have some faint hope of getting bits from my desktop on the third floor catwalk down to the stereo without buying (yet) another computer just for playing audio. If it's not possible now would be a good time for me to hear that!

[LEReid]

I can cancel all my other holiday plans and read this thread... At last... a revised Audiolab CD/Q thread. [Archive] - pink fish media

[LEReid]

I just read a review from a German magazine; they hooked up the Audiolab 8200CDQ with a macbook running PureMusic and were quite happy with it. The translation can be found on 6moons.

A shorter USB cable did indeed turn it into a sweet/pleasant listening experience, more like what 6moons reports.

[LEReid]

Long cables are always tricky. For USB it is pretty clear, it's specs pretty much forbid long distance. With properly implemented SPDIF it should in theory be possible, although I don't know anybody who tried.

If true this certainly would cheer me up: "Why longer is generally better for an S/PDIF Digital Cable" spdif

[LEReid]

`

Why not bring it here instead?

You're all so friendly and helpful that it seems like the right place!

 

`

I think iago may be too polite here. You should easily achieve better performance than CD replay.

Very good news.

 

`

If I'm picturing your set-up correctly, desktop upstairs to laptop downstairs should be possible via network cable or powerline adaptors.

 

The laptop downstairs is just being used today to test. It normally has to go to work and can't live by the computer. The house has some holes already drilled and a nice pathway from the third-floor catwalk office to the audio system on the main (half-basement) floor. If the interwebs are right that long is good in SP/DIF then all my problems could be solved.

[LEReid]

Another thing to try is pick-up a ToSLink to Mini-ToSLink cable. I believe your Macbook Air headphone jack should have ToSLink out. It's always worth comparing USB and ToSLink/Coax into every DAC. Some DACs just sound better on one or the other.

Okay, I think I'm down to a manageable number of things to compare, if I'm comparing TOSLink and USB with a USB/SPDIF.

 

Hated playing them into my main system with iTunes. They just sounded shrill and digital. Upgraded to PM and now Audirvania and that helped. Went to a DAC via USB and am now slightly better than the CD player. It took a while to find the magic combination but it is achievable.

Better than CD is music to my ears (so to speak). That's encouraging.

 

iTunes via Airplay was very shrill. I thought it might actually have been more realistic than the CDQ itself on a recorder CD I put on. A reminder that it's often a question of tradeoffs in the end.

[LEReid]

Funny thing about my system and upgrade is that I discovered after the fact that I'd gone from one Westlake product (Cambridge Audio CD4) to another (Audiolab 8200CDQ + 8200P).

[LEReid]

..Most people use XLD on OS-X. ... All of them have provisions to correct reading errors, check the result internally or externally against other people's rips, so you can be sure you extracted the best possible data from your CDs.

 

What is your setup?

I've been using iTunes with the error correction option chosen. I have to re-rip a certain batch anyway so I'll do it with XLD! Thanks!

[LEReid]

I have no idea whether it is true!

[LEReid]

After having great fun with the ability of audirvana to catalog my non-iTunes formats and play FLACs of historical recordings I'd long ago downloaded from Sound File Search ...I now have Audirvana delivering only the right channel. It's fine with a CD so it's not the system. !

[LEReid]

It's hilarious that all this "convenience" of using the desktop computer and the iPad/iPhone remote means going up and down two flights of stairs many times a day to try to troubleshoot things!

[LEReid]

Is there any reason Audirvana would decide to play only the right channel? I'm having a hard time searching the topic on the Audirvana forum.

[LEReid]

Never heard of that issue before. Are you sure it's Audirvana causing this?

 

I'm somewhat incredulous myself...

 

I went back to playing from CD to check if it was the system (which would be more logical--I had to send the 8200P in for repair shortly after purchase because of such a problem). No, that's fine.

 

Now I've just run up and down the 2 flights of stairs a half dozen times to test, and indeed, iTunes plays both channels and Audirvana only the R.

 

When it first happened I was playing a FLAC from a historical source, and I rationalized that it was a mono recording (not that that explanation made any sense).

 

Also, every time I start using Audirvana, there's no sound--I have to go in to preferences and select something else as Preferred Audio Device and then select back my original Preferred Audio Device, and then it plays fine.

[LEReid]

Okay, this is the best advice yet. In order to get really good sound from your CDQ in a computer-based system, take the alac file from your computer, burn it on a CD, and go put it in the CD tray of the player!

Audiolab 8200CDQ CD Player with Built-In Preamplifier - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

[LEReid]

Okay, Iago, I'm on to XLD. Detecting Pregap (initial step) takes about 10x what importing a CD does in iTunes. Is that normal?

[LEReid]

I'm going back to some of my favourite recordings to get them ripped in ALAC with this new-to-me XLD (some of them were ripped to AAC years ago before I had digital input to my system). This is to prepare for some comparison listening.

 

I'm continuing to play with Audirvana, which has mercifully decided to start putting out both left and right channels again.

 

Meanwhile, I'm starting to prepare what my options are to compare, and your input (John, iago, David, Musicophile) is really helpful.

 

My brainstorm du jour is that instead of running a long SPDIF cable from a USB/SPDIF converter near my mac mini to the audio system, I could put the mac mini down with the audio system, where it will still be within bluetooth range for my keyboard and mouse, and run a long cable up to the monitor.

[LEReid]

Some people found that checking 'detect pre-gap' and 'extract/rip upon insertion' solved the issue. If other programs are running, that try to access the music CD, this might also present problems.

 

What you could do is skip gap detection for CDs which take a small eternity to rip. Verify that AccurateRip gives a correct result, then everything should be fine. As far as I know, undetected gaps will be added to the end of the respective track. Since this is the standard behaviour also for detected gap handling, AccurateRip should return a correct result when you ignore them.

 

I see an option "Don't detect pregap, ISRC and MCN" -- is that the option for skipping gap detection?

[LEReid]

 

How long does a complete rip take? I need approximately 20-30 seconds for gap detection, 15 seconds for creating the cue sheet (which is supposed to read ISRC, but I found that only a small portion of tracks actually contain one)

 

Just checked...took 20 minutes for the gap detection.

[LEReid]

After thinking about your input, and a bit of research over the week, I think it makes sense to go the USB/SPDIF route and not spend time on comparing that to toslink.

 

So I need to plan out selecting a USB/SPDIF and relevant cables...they aren't the kind of thing you can get at the local audio store here to compare, and I'm going to bet that I'll have strong feelings about the differences among them.

 

The difference between regular USB, AirPlay, and CD is big enough to cancel out why I bought the setup I have--i.e. the first two sound nice enough, but nice enough to have been handled adequately by my old amp and speakers. I listen and think, "lovely music," but there's too much loss of detail, timbre, space, stage.

 

A local dealer can get the bel canto for me, but I don't think his supplier has any other manufacturers that do a usb/spdif. Maybe there's an online shop that would send 2-3 at once (for a good deposit). Complicated by the small country variable (Canada). I kind of like the natural limits set by local audio dealers--there were about 4 options for DAC/Amp in my price range, and the same for speakers, so it was relatively simple to test and select and not worry about what I might have got if I lived elsewhere.

 

I think my options here again are somewhat limited--I would have a hard time justifying in my mind spending more than $500 on this, although if I have to spend more to get the sound I expect from my system (what I bought it for), I guess I have to. There aren't so many usb/spdif in that price range, and they'll sort somewhat by whether they need both cables or come with one connector already in place, not needing a cable. But I'm nervous about basing a shortlist on reviews because I wonder if it's by the people with the same level of discrimination as those who reviewed the CDQ and said the USB input is great--instead of saying that the USB input negates half the value of the system!

 

That's this weekend's conundrum. I'll post a shortlist for testing and if you all have any advice--e.g. the Bel Canto mlink is the one I can get brought in by a local dealer; what would you compare it with for someone focused on classical listening, and particularly keen on timbre (nothing makes me happier than comparing instruments and thinking I'm hearing the varnish on the violin or the particular quality of one renaissance flute manufacturer vs another) and also all the usual stuff of soundstage, dynamic musicality and "being thereness"...

[LEReid]

The Belcantos are the newest on the market, only launched a couple of months ago, so there are no comparative reviews out there yet. However, from the extensive discussions on this forum, I'd be tempted to say you'd be safe if you compare it just to the Audiophilleo 2, they have a 30 day return policy with free shipping to Canada. This seems to be the current reference mid-price USB-SPDIF converter, and would set you back $579, vs. the $399 for the Belcanto.

Can they both be run without an S/PDIF cable? The Audiophileo says that explicitly (and comes with the USB cable).

 

I hadn't yet tried the Audirvana with the right settings on the simple USB cable from my laptop, so I've been doing that today. That certainly produces a more satisfactory sound quality. Still not as natural on the voice as the CD, but much closer to the CD quality.

[LEReid]

However, didn't I understand correctly from your previous posts that you'd need a significant length of cable between computer and DAC anyhow?

My idea now is to move the Mac mini and do a long cable to the monitor...taking advantage of the Bluetooth range of 30' and the open concept house....any chance that would work?