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Optimizing input to Audiolab 8200CDQ?


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I'm comparing:

 

1) AppleTV3 streaming from mac mini (in another room) with iTunes

2) mac air with iTunes via USB (just a junk cable)

(both reading ALAC files)

3) with the original CD.

 

All I can say is it makes me want to stop ripping music and just continue listening to CDs.

 

But that's okay because I haven't started into...

 

1) Better solution for wireless streaming

OR

2) PureMusic

AND

3) Better hardwired connection between computer and CDQ.

 

Each of these avenues will itself involve testing and tweaking. So I'm hoping to find some advice on which is the best avenue to start down to get the best sound...the kind of sound I bought the system for (happy-making "I'm in the room with the string quartet" and "the 1820s piano sounds just as wonky as an 1820s piano should sound" kind of sound).

 

Abandon dreams of doing this wirelessly? Get one of those USB/SPDIF thingies? Just get a nice USB cable? Forget USB and go for TOSlink/mini-TOSlink?

 

Find a forum of 8200CDQ users who talk about this kind of thing?

 

I would be grateful for any advice anyone can share.

 

The general mac ecosystem is pretty set in stone, as is the recently purchased system below--purchased both for the sound and the rich options in digital input so that I could eventually do what I'm starting into now (adapting to the end-of-the-CD era).

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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Some recommendations, having been through a similar process earlier this year:

 

Airplay is not the best way to get optimum SQ. I have an Apple TV, and used to have an Airport Express. Very decent for occasional listening, but it get's much better with a direct connection.

 

A dedicated player is a must for a Mac. My recommendation goes to Audirvana Plus, especially the latest beta with Integer mode (it will be released as official new version soon). Made a great upgrade in SQ for me. PureMusic and Amarra are good alternatives, and all have free trials.

 

A further major improvement on my system was the USB/SPDIF thingy indeed, as you can see from my signature, a BelCanto mlink. Made a great difference on my system.

 

On the USB cable front, I'm more of a sceptic, but nevertheless got myself the cheapest Audioquest 1 for the looks and 2 for the peace of mind.

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All I can say is it makes me want to stop ripping music and just continue listening to CDs.

 

What you did not mention is how you rip your CDs. Maybe there is room for improvement also.

 

I just read a review from a German magazine; they hooked up the Audiolab 8200CDQ with a macbook running PureMusic and were quite happy with it. The translation can be found on 6moons.

 

Before you invest in more gear, optimize your ripping process and try a really short USB cable (1 ft.). You might also try different players. You should at least get something resembling the CD performance.

 

Streaming with ATV is a different issue, because by default it re-samples everything to 48 kHz.

Primary ::= Nabla music server | Mutec MC-3+USB w/ Temex LPFRS-01 RB clock | WLM Gamma Reference DAC; Secondary ::= Nabla music server | WaveIO | PrismSound Lyra

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Thank you! I suspected as much...that the wireless part was a nice dream (at this point in time? always?).

 

I see Audirvana says it now has optional iTunes 11 integration. I think my holiday project over the next few weeks will be testing the free downloads of a few of these. But no point unless I have the right connection. Will look at the Bel Canto mlink!

 

On the USB cable front, I'm more of a sceptic, but nevertheless got myself the cheapest Audioquest 1 for the looks and 2 for the peace of mind.

 

Just after posting I saw this thread and was afeared that my simple request might start a war: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/can-changing-my-usb-cable-improve-sound-audiolab-8200cd-9451/index15.html

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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What you did not mention is how you rip your CDs. Maybe there is room for improvement also.

...

Streaming with ATV is a different issue, because by default it re-samples everything to 48 kHz.

 

Yes, the ATV streaming is complete crap. Well, okay for background music. Huge difference in staging, separation, musicality (string quintet). The USB -- even just a cheap cable that is too long -- is better. But I just tried some Hilliard ensemble on the USB and it sounded like it was coming through on some skype-like digital distortion channel. (I exaggerate slightly.)

 

Is ripping CDs to something other than the lossless a better choice?

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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Some recommendations, having been through a similar process earlier this year:

 

A further major improvement on my system was the USB/SPDIF thingy indeed, as you can see from my signature, a BelCanto mlink. Made a great difference on my system.

 

 

One more question--does length of cable matter once you're using this kind of device? (Open concept house; the computer is two floors directly above the stereo.)

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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One more question--does length of cable matter once you're using this kind of device? (Open concept house; the computer is two floors directly above the stereo.)

 

Please don't say you're using 6m / 18 ft. of USB connection?

Primary ::= Nabla music server | Mutec MC-3+USB w/ Temex LPFRS-01 RB clock | WLM Gamma Reference DAC; Secondary ::= Nabla music server | WaveIO | PrismSound Lyra

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Please don't say you're using 6m / 18 ft. of USB connection?

 

No! Right now I'm testing using a laptop right up next to the stereo. But the USB cable I grabbed is longish so I'll look for a short one.

 

But I do have some faint hope of getting bits from my desktop on the third floor catwalk down to the stereo without buying (yet) another computer just for playing audio. If it's not possible now would be a good time for me to hear that!

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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Is ripping CDs to something other than the lossless a better choice?

 

I was not referring to the format. Most people use XLD on OS-X. If you were using a different O/S you might try dbPoweramp or Exact Audio Copy (the one I use). All of them have provisions to correct reading errors, check the result internally or externally against other people's rips, so you can be sure you extracted the best possible data from your CDs.

 

What is your setup?

Primary ::= Nabla music server | Mutec MC-3+USB w/ Temex LPFRS-01 RB clock | WLM Gamma Reference DAC; Secondary ::= Nabla music server | WaveIO | PrismSound Lyra

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No! Right now I'm testing using a laptop right up next to the stereo.

 

You got me worried for a while ;-)

Primary ::= Nabla music server | Mutec MC-3+USB w/ Temex LPFRS-01 RB clock | WLM Gamma Reference DAC; Secondary ::= Nabla music server | WaveIO | PrismSound Lyra

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I can cancel all my other holiday plans and read this thread... At last... a revised Audiolab CD/Q thread. [Archive] - pink fish media

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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Wireless alone probably isn't an issue. AirPlay certainly is as it's not a high resolution format. So, that drops the ATV from being useful.

 

As others have stated... download BitPerfect, Audirvania+, Pure Music, and any other software players you read about. They all have trial periods (maybe not BF) and should provide a big improvement.

 

Another thing to try is pick-up a ToSLink to Mini-ToSLink cable. I believe your Macbook Air headphone jack should have ToSLink out. It's always worth comparing USB and ToSLink/Coax into every DAC. Some DACs just sound better on one or the other.

 

Most all my CDs are ripped using iTunes Apple lossless (a re-rip project will happen at some point with XLD). Hated playing them into my main system with iTunes. They just sounded shrill and digital. Upgraded to PM and now Audirvania and that helped. Went to a DAC via USB and am now slightly better than the CD player. It took a while to find the magic combination but it is achievable.

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`

Lynette,

 

Abandon dreams of doing this wirelessly?

 

Probably. Drop-outs can be seriously irritating.

 

Find a forum of 8200CDQ users who talk about this kind of thing?

 

Why not bring it here instead? :)

 

You should at least get something resembling the CD performance.

 

I think iago may be too polite here. You should easily achieve better performance than CD replay.

 

Just after posting I saw this thread and was afeared that my simple request might start a war: Can changing my USB cable Improve sound from Audiolab 8200CD?

 

Computer Audiophile isn't immune from the inevitable cable thread, but unlike other forums it's more like handbags at dawn, rather than personal diatribes against each other. Hmm... maybe. ;)

 

Is ripping CDs to something other than the lossless a better choice?

 

Shouldn't be necessary. ALAC should be perfect.

 

I do have some faint hope of getting bits from my desktop on the third floor catwalk down to the stereo without buying (yet) another computer just for playing audio. If it's not possible now would be a good time for me to hear that!

 

If I'm picturing your set-up correctly, desktop upstairs to laptop downstairs should be possible via network cable or powerline adaptors.

 

All the best,

 

John.

1975. First separates system: Leak 2001 Transcription Turntable + Leak 2000 Tuner Amplifier + Leak 2020 Loudspeakers

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No! Right now I'm testing using a laptop right up next to the stereo. But the USB cable I grabbed is longish so I'll look for a short one.

 

But I do have some faint hope of getting bits from my desktop on the third floor catwalk down to the stereo without buying (yet) another computer just for playing audio. If it's not possible now would be a good time for me to hear that!

 

Long cables are always tricky. For USB it is pretty clear, it's specs pretty much forbid long distance. With properly implemented SPDIF it should in theory be possible, although I don't know anybody who tried.

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I just read a review from a German magazine; they hooked up the Audiolab 8200CDQ with a macbook running PureMusic and were quite happy with it. The translation can be found on 6moons.

A shorter USB cable did indeed turn it into a sweet/pleasant listening experience, more like what 6moons reports.

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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Long cables are always tricky. For USB it is pretty clear, it's specs pretty much forbid long distance. With properly implemented SPDIF it should in theory be possible, although I don't know anybody who tried.

If true this certainly would cheer me up: "Why longer is generally better for an S/PDIF Digital Cable" spdif

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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`

Why not bring it here instead? :)

You're all so friendly and helpful that it seems like the right place!

 

`

I think iago may be too polite here. You should easily achieve better performance than CD replay.

Very good news.

 

`

If I'm picturing your set-up correctly, desktop upstairs to laptop downstairs should be possible via network cable or powerline adaptors.

 

The laptop downstairs is just being used today to test. It normally has to go to work and can't live by the computer. The house has some holes already drilled and a nice pathway from the third-floor catwalk office to the audio system on the main (half-basement) floor. If the interwebs are right that long is good in SP/DIF then all my problems could be solved.

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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Another thing to try is pick-up a ToSLink to Mini-ToSLink cable. I believe your Macbook Air headphone jack should have ToSLink out. It's always worth comparing USB and ToSLink/Coax into every DAC. Some DACs just sound better on one or the other.

Okay, I think I'm down to a manageable number of things to compare, if I'm comparing TOSLink and USB with a USB/SPDIF.

 

Hated playing them into my main system with iTunes. They just sounded shrill and digital. Upgraded to PM and now Audirvania and that helped. Went to a DAC via USB and am now slightly better than the CD player. It took a while to find the magic combination but it is achievable.

Better than CD is music to my ears (so to speak). That's encouraging.

 

iTunes via Airplay was very shrill. I thought it might actually have been more realistic than the CDQ itself on a recorder CD I put on. A reminder that it's often a question of tradeoffs in the end.

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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Funny thing about my system and upgrade is that I discovered after the fact that I'd gone from one Westlake product (Cambridge Audio CD4) to another (Audiolab 8200CDQ + 8200P).

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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..Most people use XLD on OS-X. ... All of them have provisions to correct reading errors, check the result internally or externally against other people's rips, so you can be sure you extracted the best possible data from your CDs.

 

What is your setup?

I've been using iTunes with the error correction option chosen. I have to re-rip a certain batch anyway so I'll do it with XLD! Thanks!

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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If true this certainly would cheer me up: "Why longer is generally better for an S/PDIF Digital Cable" spdif

 

S..t and I just got myself a 0.75m BNC cable for my BelCanto.i just hope that my transitions are fast enough...

 

Half knowledge is dangerous, I'm afraid my system will sound worse to me now...

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I have no idea whether it is true!

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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After having great fun with the ability of audirvana to catalog my non-iTunes formats and play FLACs of historical recordings I'd long ago downloaded from Sound File Search ...I now have Audirvana delivering only the right channel. It's fine with a CD so it's not the system. !

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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It's hilarious that all this "convenience" of using the desktop computer and the iPad/iPhone remote means going up and down two flights of stairs many times a day to try to troubleshoot things!

- Lynette

----

Mac Mini with iTunes and Pure Music > Audiophilleo2 > Audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp/CD player/DAC > Kimber PBJ interconnects [> Grant Fidelity B283 mkii Tube Processor > mystery hand-me-down interconnects >] Audiolab 8200P power amp > Grant Fidelity SPC-2.5 Performance speaker cables > Opera Consonance Eric Grand speakers

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