HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Miska]

This switch stuff is strange, it really shouldn't affect DHCP. I have managed (smart) gigabit switches from HP, Cisco and Netgear here and no issues. No issues with the dumb ones either.

 

My DHCP server runs on a PC-based Unix server machine (along with DNS server etc).

 

Just for the record, I have three (3) switches between my office and the NAA in living room...

[Miska]

Yes, but which device is your DHCP server?

 

It's a real server (hardware) running OpenBSD...

[Miska]

Hi Miska, the new Cubox-i image works flawlessly on Hummingboard i1.

 

Great! Thank you for testing and information!

[Miska]

I would like to try NAA on a Cubietruck - is this possible?

 

If you install Debian on it and then the "armhf" binary package of networkaudiod, it should work.

 

I have not yet purchased HQPlayer - would that mean I cannot run NAA?

 

Trial version of HQPlayer can be used with NAA. But NAA is useless alone without HQPlayer.

[Miska]

Just curious whether I can use a USB->SPDIF converter with an SOtM SMS100 as the NAA. Jesus wasn't sure if this would work with HQPlayer.

 

Pretty much any audio device recognized by SMS100 should work. When you use USB->SPDIF converter with HQPlayer, I recommend using the "DAC Bits" setting to tell the how many bits the DAC is actually capable of. SPDIF doesn't have a return channel, so DAC cannot report it back. In any case it cannot be more than 24-bit since SPDIF cannot pass more in normal cases. Some XMOS based devices like MuFi V-Link192 claim 32-bits and thus the setting should be set to 24 or less to avoid truncation by the USB->SPDIF converter.

[Miska]

I'm guessing DSD over HDMI to a compatible receiver is not possible as usual?

 

I have a Pioneer SC-LX90 connected to SACD-player that sends DSD over HDMI for decoding in the

receiver. Theoretically it should be possible to forward the DSD stream from a computer too, but it

seems there is no support in the audio drivers to do this.

 

Yes, audio drivers are the problem. And I'm not sure if the used interfaces even support DSD or if the hardware is hard coded to PCM (GPUs and co-chips)...

[Miska]

For DSD512 on iDSD Micro do I need Windows as desktop (HQPlayer) or for NAA? Was is best hardware for NAA?

 

Upcoming NAA 3.x will allow DSD512 with iDSD Micro. HQPlayer can be running on any OS, only the NAA matters.

[Miska]

Will the HP Windows 8 tablet be good enough for the remote portion if I go the embedded route.

 

Atom can probably do upsampling to higher PCM rates, but not necessarily even DSD64. Core i5 and i7 tablets like Surface Pro 3 can manage more. All the processing is done where the HQPlayer runs, so the CPU there matters. NAA doesn't consume much CPU time, so pretty much anything goes.

 

Will 801.11n be good enough for DSD (128-bit) traffic or should I use 802.11ac? I have option to run both.

 

Faster is usually better, but 802.11n has been fine for me. DSD128 in stereo is just around 12 Mbps so it is not so heavy. Channel / frequency selection and planning the access point location for wireless is important, especially in crowded areas.

 

We have only one other WLAN network visible so there's no congestion.

[Miska]

After doing some NAA update work on both HQPlayer and NAA side; to be precise, one possible problem I found was getnameinfo() returning an error and thus terminating the NAA discovery phase in HQPlayer. Functionally this is not necessary, result was only used for possible log output.

 

When name of the peer cannot be resolved, it should return just plain IP without error... (but documentation is ambiguous about when EAI_AGAIN can happen)

[Miska]

I know that with GUI and such it's not as ideal, but Lubuntu 32-bit is all I have at the moment, apart from Raspbian on ARM. 32-bit Windows is not supported.

 

Now with NAA 3.x, you can use either Debian Jessie netinstall following roughly these instructions (a bit outdated, for older networkaudiod and Wheezy):

Index of /naa-install

Or alternatively you can go with Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS, select nothing or at most OpenSSH when asked here:

and then go on to first do "sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade". And then either do "sudo apt-get install linux-image-lowlatency linux-headers-lowlatency linux-tools-lowlatency" or install my kernel and libasound2 packages for native DSD support.

 

Then do "sudo apt-get install libasound2" to make sure you have necessary dependencies installed.

 

After this point, you can just install the relevant networkaudiod package using "dpkg -i networkaudiod_..."

 

Now you are ready to go, with either 32-bit or 64-bit version of the OS and networkaudiod.

 

 

P.S. OpenSSH server is useful for remotely performing the remaining steps or other maintenance tasks after initial installation. SSH client is included in Linux and OS X, for Windows one can find a client here.

[Miska]

So if Miska's comment means that HQP 3.6.x is going to allow direct input of IP address (easy to see at boot time of NAA--even the text-only optimized Linux/NAA images for ARM and Intel from Miska--the lease IP shows in the last lines of the boot before the prompt), then that would be VERY good news for me and others who have been frustrated to date with NAA discovery.

 

No, adding that would be big change on how NAA works, because it is now found based on it's high-level name instead address (address can change).

 

But I think I can add a "hidden" configuration option to the config XML that can be added manually to force HQPlayer to hook to a particular network interface since there seem to be some multicast routing issues with multiple network adapters.

[Miska]

Miska,

Any plans to add a 64-bit version of HQPlayer (for all OS) and NAA?

 

Edit:

I just looked at the 3.0 download directory and see Windows directory and I also see packages for 64bit related to NAA. Hopefully HQPlayer 64-bit is next.

 

Linux version of HQPlayer is currently 64-bit only and 64-bit has been available as long as Linux version has been available.

 

OS X version has always been 64-bit only.

 

Windows version ships with both 32- and 64-bit versions and has been that way as long as I remember...

[Miska]

Are you going to prepare an ISO from it for the CuBox?

 

At some point when I have time... It requires update to the kernel and libasound2 to have advantages over previous version (IOW, to support non-DoP DSD) and doing all that for the image takes some time.

[Miska]

Where can NAA 3.x be found -- the netaudiod is version 2.05?

 

It is now on my web page, if it doesn't appear yet, please reload the page to refresh cache.

[Miska]

Is this the first wide release for OS X, or has it been available all along? I was under the impression I needed a Linux (or similar lightweight) OS for the NAA, but I just set it up on my 2011 Mac Mini and it's playing well

 

Yes, OS X and Windows versions are fresh, first time released last night...

[Miska]

Saw that you just made available "networkaudiod" NAA for both Windows and OS X. I will try the OS X one right away. But should I keep my expectations low since the NAA will still have to run through CoreAudio? Are you doing anything special with these NAA releases to help them equal the SQ of your Linux NAA?

 

Other than the audio backend part, my code is very much the same for all platforms. Of course platforms are otherwise quite different and Windows and OS X are much more bloated than minimal Linux. I'm not sure if it is possible to run either Windows or OS X in pure text mode without any graphics. But the networkaudiod on both is certainly suitable for such if it is possible.

[Miska]

I just published HQPlayer 3.6.0 with support for the NAAv3 new features.

 

To help with the multicast routing issues, I have added one custom option to the configuration XML.

 

Inside <network/> element you can now add "mcast_if" attribute to control which local interface is used for NAA discovery.

 

So you can add for example

mcast_if="192.168.1.10"

inside the network element to use local interface with IP 192.168.1.10 for the NAA functionality. I didn't do much testing on this option, so YMMV, etc.

 

Please let me know if it helps or not...

 

P.S. Easiest way to edit this is to use the File / Export settings, then edit the file in text editor (make a backup copy first!) and then File / Import settings it back.

[Miska]

You are welcome ... I'm still working on converting a mac mini into a NAA vs player ... you have me very curious about why this would have better SQ than the cubox ... would be interesting in comparing mini vs. atom (12v 3 amp draw) vs. ARM (2 amp draw).

 

IIRC, CuBox-i is most of the time below 500 mA @5VDC...

[Miska]

the Network Audio Daemon v. 3.0.0. works in native non-DoP DSD with Amanero dacs (like my North Star Design Supremo, for example...)?

 

Yes, on Windows (with ASIO driver), together with HQPlayer 3.6.0 or later.

[Miska]

So only with a Windows NAA? With a Linux NAA is not possible at the moment?(I own a Cubox-i with your iso image mounted...)

 

That's the case because there are no Amanero specific Linux drivers yet, so Linux support relies on the UAC2 standard which means max DSD128 through DoP.

 

Non-DoP support on Linux is currently limited to:

Playback Designs

iFi

Marantz

DIYINHK

Matrix

[Miska]

Is it possible to connect the Macs via Thunderbolt Port with a direct TB connection? It seemed the NAA wasn't discovered in this configuration.

 

I don't know how such works, but I don't think it's a good idea because you lose the galvanic isolation provided by networking gear.

 

NAA is fine as long as there's an IPv4 network available, regardless of media.

[Miska]

would you favor ethernet or wifi ?

 

As usual, I don't think there's a simple answer that one would be better than the other. It depends on the hardware and overall system configuration. Wifi provides convenience and at least galvanic isolation, it is convenient if one is running HQPlayer in something like Surface Pro 3.

 

Optical ethernet is another possibility instead or in addition to a traditional copper.

[Miska]

Now there's a new image for CuBox-i available here...

[Miska]

I got some problem with my new NAA, Zotac pico PI320-W3 with Win 8.1 32bit preinstalled.

 

It is a 64-bit executable at the moment, so it doesn't work on 32-bit Windows... That machine is capable of running 64-bit Windows, does it come with the installation media for both 32- and 64-bit?

 

 

P.S.: it seems that is no communications between desktop pc and naa. I tried the cmd "ping 192.168.1.11" (the address of naa) and it appears the message "packets send=4; received=0; lost=4".

 

This is most likely Windows firewall settings. If your local network is protected by hardware firewall (in router) and you use the machine only in local network, you don't necessarily need a software firewall.

[Miska]

at the moment I am not at home so I can't try.

If not possible, do you think you can make a networkaudiodaemon version for Windows 32 bit systems?

I am very disappointed, I had purchased the Zotac just to use as NAA's ...

 

I'll send you email, I believe we've had some email exchange before...