HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Miska]

How do I start HQ Player in network mode for Linux ?

 

There are two start menu / launcher items, item called "HQPlayer Desktop Network Audio" is the one to use. Alternatively you can just use "--net" command line option.

 

M2Tech Hiface DAC should have XMOS chipset ... totally different than my EVO/Hiface1/Young DAC ...

 

Yes, AFAIK, it is XMOS implementation and similar to the hiFace Two. MuFi V-Link192 was first one to try at 192/24 and next one was the hiFace DAC (because it can do the highest data bandwidth of 384/32, so both are XMOS).

 

I'm planning to try hiFace1 too, but didn't have time for it yet. (I'll have to build the driver first)

[Miska]

Wow ... NAA setup is a kind of battle ... ;-)

 

BeagleBoneBlack should starts integrate Hiface1/EVO/Young drivers from kernel 3.12 ( currently at early stage ) I tried to install but no luck ... The trip continue

 

ARM devices are not really easy to deal with, compared to PCs. But I have now built a custom kernel for BBB with hiFace driver and I can confirm that it works... (with hiFace1)

[Miska]

As I've said before why don't you simply make HQPlayer UPnP compatible?

 

In my test environments, HQPlayer + NAA works in even cases where UPnP doesn't work.

 

Getting something like drivers to work on a small embedded ARM-based computer is unrelated to any higher level protocol like UPnP or the protocol used by NAA. This is practically similar topic to installing your own custom firmware to a Mytek DAC (there's an ARM CPU in there too).

 

BeagleBone Black wouldn't even have the CPU power to run HQPlayer algorithms.

[Miska]

But to make it happen (so you can sell it) you gotta make it "child's play"....

 

.....So every moron customer can launch it, then stream it

 

To make NAA work like that, it needs someone to ship it pre-installed on a hardware. Then it's at least as plug-and-play as UPnP. Now NAA is just DIY/OEM, because I don't want to start selling hardware. Dealing with all the CE, FCC and WEEE rules is too much bureaucratic headache to deal with (and it's expensive too).

[Miska]

I just tested with otherwise similar setup, but I don't have a Bitfrost to try with. I have tested it with M2Tech hiFace, hiFace DAC and MuFi V-Link192. In case you use OS X 10.9, you may need to disable App Nap for HQPlayer. I've done most of my testing on 10.8 because I didn't update Mac Mini yet since there's no 10.9 driver support yet for any of the pro-audio interfaces I use for other purposes.

 

This is the method I've been recently using for installing Debian:

BeagleBoardDebian - eLinux.org

[Miska]

Is that custom OS build something you share or for your personal use only and you recommend for us to install Debian Wheezy?

 

Custom build was mostly for the older white version of BeagleBone. With the newer black version I am using Debian Wheezy and recommending it also for others. Installation is quite straightforward. I have somewhat customized kernel build, mostly to add hiFace driver...

 

However, most recent ready made kernel packages available here, contain hiFace drivers:

Index of /deb/wheezy-armhf

 

Since the method used in my previous link require existing Linux PC or similar, there is a way for Windows/Mac users here:

BeagleBone Black

[Miska]

# dd if=/Users/<your Mac username>/Downloads/debian-wheezy-7.2-armhf-3.8.13-bone30.img.xz of=/dev/disk1

 

You'll need to decompress the "xz" compression first (it becomes .img). IIRC, the image contains two partitions, a small FAT partition that contains bootloader and kernel and then bigger one for rest of the OS. The FAT one is visible on OS X too, but the actual OS filesystem is not.

[Miska]

Maybe Logitech Media Server is an idea, very user friendly and doesn't require upnp, has not issues with subfolders, doesn't need a touchscreen.

 

Squeezelite is quite different, it is more like mpd, running all decoding and everything else in one place.

[Miska]

Does this mean there is now an easy way of streaming *all* files (outputted as DSD) from HQplayer to the Simple little SOTM Mini Server and then into DSD DAC's like my E28 and Res. Invicta as pure DSD the whole way?..

 

To Invicta it should work fine, but not to exaSound due to lack of Linux drivers. Multichannel works too, given that the DAC supports it.

 

Both Desktop and Embedded versions can output to a NAA equally, because the actual player is the same.

[Miska]

How do you control the library and playback? Sorry. But I wish you would just borrow an SOTM Mini Server, set it all up and demo for all us audiofools on Youtube how it works.. Cheers

 

As usual through the normal HQPlayer, DAC just becomes connected through ethernet...

[Miska]

… and one other question; the Linux drivers are needed if HQPlayer is running under a Linux OS, right? Either embedded or desktop?

 

Yes, Desktop and Embedded versions are exactly the same when it comes to playback engine. Only difference is how these are controlled.

 

It's my understanding that when using an NAA, HQPlayer sees the DAC that's connected to the NAA, just as it would if the DAC were connected to the machine running HQPlayer directly.

 

Yes, each NAA has a name (by default it is called "default") and each NAA can have one or more DACs connected to it. So you can have multiple NAAs with multiple DACs connected to each. So the device could appear for example as "BedRoom:iDSD Nano" on the list.

 

…so if HQPlayer is running on Mac or Windows, the drivers needed for the DAC are the appropriate Mac or Windows drivers; or have I mis-understood?

 

Only for local playback. When you play to a NAA, drivers are at the NAA side. And since the OS is Linux there, Linux drivers are needed... So when playing back to a NAA, the audio device stack of the machine where HQPlayer is running is completely ignored.

[Miska]

Can the NAA running on the SOTM SMS-100 handle DSD256 assuming there is a Linux driver for the DAC's USB receiver, and that USB receiver has enough bandwidth for DSD256 ?

 

As I don't have such DAC, nor SMS-100, I have not tried. But from software perspective it should work just fine...

 

(all DSD256 I've been doing so far has been through ASIO on Windows)

[Miska]

Ok then, so how do you control HQplayer? Is there an app for droid or iOS?

 

In listening room I have a touch screen and use HQPlayer Desktop in touch (fullscreen) mode. It can also be controlled with IR remote. You can also run the normal desktop version on a device like Microsoft Surface Pro 3.

 

I control Embedded version with BubbleUPnP Android-app.

 

But most of the time I listen with headphones while working on the same computer, or browsing the web, writing to this forum etc.

[Miska]

Will you consider making a HQplayer engine plugin for Minimserver or LMS? These two servers have great library management function.

 

HQPlayer Embedded works fine with MinimServer. Since it functions just as UPnP Renderer, the library is managed elsewhere (@ UPnP Media Server).

[Miska]

Ok. Beaudddy.!! Awesome..So how do we buy it? What device do we purchase? If not preinstalled, then what do we install it on? And how?

 

Precisely because people would ask "how", you need to wait for some manufacturer to bundle it for you. Or then it needs to cost 10x more than the desktop version to offset all the support...

 

Since it's a headless server, installation and configuration needs quite a bit of work on Linux command line. If you want to change settings like filters, you need to edit an XML configuration file. UPnP doesn't have means for controlling such configuration options.

 

So it is only doable for those who are really familiar with Linux command line (no GUIs at all).

[Miska]

Is the Signalyst deb package sticky? I have to reinstall the package on my debian machine every time I boot up for HQPlayer to see my audio device on my NAA, if I don't I get a "no audio device found" situation.

 

Yes, you can "dpkg -l networkaudiod" to see if it's installed.

 

Do you have DAC connected and powered up while booting up your Debian machine?

 

Also, HQPlayer will not play through my NAA, I can select my device and load tracks but there is nothing once I push the play button. I am trying it out just playing native redbook files.

 

Which OS do you use for HQPlayer and which DAC do you have? What are your settings in main window when trying to play?

[Miska]

Hello Miska, I can fill you in on a few of the details of my setup. Currently I have no DSD capabilities (only temporary) so I am only trying to play at 24/96 resolution. I have a Bel Canto DAC 1.5 attached to my NAA by USB cable. My NAA is an Intel Atom based netbook, 1.66ghz processor, 1 gb memory. I can play music through the DAC directly from the Debian Rythmbox application from files that I copy on to the HD of the netbook.

 

You need to make sure that nothing else takes hold of the audio device (like pulseaudio) when you are trying to use it over NAA...

 

As I mentioned, I can see the DAC from my desktop on the NAA and can select it but nothing plays.

 

Does the playback time and position indicator start running when you hit play, or is it stuck at the beginning?

 

This sounds like something else keeping the audio device reserved.

[Miska]

I posted some extra information on another thread that is more relevant to this one, so linking it here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hqplayer-desktop-3-4-0-windows-linux-and-mac-os-x-released-21629/index2.html#post351117

[Miska]

Another question, forgive me if it has been addressed before, I couldn't find anything, is there a sample limit to the files that can be streamed to an NAA? I have playback great with DSD 64 & 128, can't stream above that rate.

 

Up to 1536/32 PCM and DSD512 in current version, but I can add DSD1024 or higher PCM rates easily when such becomes available...

 

NAA protocol itself doesn't have practically any rate limits.

[Miska]

Redbook>DSD1024 with Poly-sinc = new MacPro or other super-computers only need apply?

 

DSD512 is now completely feasible with -2s variants, maybe DSD1024 too with the 4790K or one of the new Haswell-E's with larger caches, faster RAM and more cores:

AnandTech | The Intel Haswell-E CPU Review: Core i7-5960X, i7-5930K and i7-5820K Tested

 

But at least by Moore's law, latest in two years...

 

And at that rate Miska, would we getting close to where just an analog LPF would be sufficient as the DAC?

 

DSC1 has only analog LPF and has very low noise levels already at DSD256/512 and better than most other DACs already at DSD128.

[Miska]

Now I have an cubox-i as NAA with an ifi nano dsd attached. In preferences i choose NAA and i see the ifi dac, i choose it, try to play music, but nothing happens. The counter stays on 0:00. If i go back to preferences the ifi is gone and only returns when I reboot the macmini.That doesn solve the problem and the same thing happens again.

 

On the same macmini, now booted in OSX, both coreaudio and naa work very well. Also from another computer on the network, an imac with the same ubuntu version ALSA and NAA work great...

 

What do you think could be wrong? In what direction do I need to look the solution?

 

Could be a driver problem with the ethernet adapter used on the Mac Mini. Does network overall work OK on that machine? After the problem has appeared there, does other network functionality still work (like google.com on browser)? Could be that a certain networking feature used for NAA causes the driver or ethernet adapter to lock up or become otherwise confused. May not happen on normal web browsing use...

 

Log file of entire session until failure on that machine could help (please don't post logs here, use email instead).

[Miska]

Anyone with an ifi Nano iDSD have any luck playing DSD256 on a NAA (upsampling redbook PCM)? DSD128 plays great, what settings are suggested/required for the next step? Thanks,

 

You need Windows and ASIO driver to get DSD256 on iDSD Nano. Same thing for DSD512 on iDSD Micro...

[Miska]

I have now updated the CuBox-i image at the usual place.

 

Should now work with Hummingboard too (in US, available here). But it has not been tested as I don't have the board yet.

[Miska]

Should we expect any SQ difference with the new NAA build?

 

I didn't notice any with the hiFace DAC I have connected to it... (combo is small enough to hide behind Xbox360 in the living room)

 

And any chance you have made the bot a bit more patient in waiting for a IP from my slow (DSL router/modem) DHCP server?

 

I didn't pay any special attention to this area, but the software components have been updated to newer versions throughout.

[Miska]

This switch stuff is strange, it really shouldn't affect DHCP. I have managed (smart) gigabit switches from HP, Cisco and Netgear here and no issues. No issues with the dumb ones either.

 

My DHCP server runs on a PC-based Unix server machine (along with DNS server etc).