HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

Jacky820 · January 16, 2020

4 hours ago, Miska said:

There is no ssh for security reasons (default passwords are bad), only console login. So you need to connect HDMI monitor and USB keyboard to login on console.

My bad! Let’s me try it tonight☺️

volpone · January 22, 2020

Hi @Miska

i'm currently running NAA 3.6 (from 3.6.0-42_armhf.deb) on ALLO USBridge (Sparky SBC, not RPI)

Last NAA release available for Strech on your site is 3.6. Any chance you will release NAA 4.x for Strech (Buster is not suitable for ALLO Sparky SBC) ?

Thank you.

Miska · January 23, 2020

1 hour ago, volpone said:

Hi @Miska

i'm currently running NAA 3.6 (from 3.6.0-42_armhf.deb) on ALLO USBridge (Sparky SBC, not RPI)

Last NAA release available for Strech on your site is 3.6. Any chance you will release NAA 4.x for Strech (Buster is not suitable for ALLO Sparky SBC) ?

Thank you.

I'm trying to leave some old OS versions behind with the new major release, there are already so many builds that making a release is major effort. I don't have any ARM based boards anymore with Stretch, I have updated all to Buster.

Are you planning to use the input feature?

asdf1000 · January 23, 2020

Hi @Miska

Can you explain what this new input feature is?

And what are currently example possibilities with it?

And virtual devices?

acatala · January 23, 2020

Hi @Miska,

Does NAA run in DSD native mode (at least DSD256) with AK4499 based DACs (Topping D90) and/or ES9038Pro (Topping DX7 Pro)?

I have been reading some articles and review about both DACs and it seems nice piece of hardware.

Miska · January 23, 2020

8 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Hi @Miska

Can you explain what this new input feature is?

And what are currently example possibilities with it?

And virtual devices?

It is the same input feature that was earlier available only locally, now it works also over network endpoint. The NAA protocol needed some extension to support stream flowing in opposite direction too.

Miska · January 23, 2020

8 minutes ago, acatala said:

Hi @Miska,

Does NAA run in DSD native mode (at least DSD256) with AK4499 based DACs (Topping D90) and/or ES9038Pro (Topping DX7 Pro)?

I have been reading some articles and review about both DACs and it seems nice piece of hardware.

Maybe it does... But since I don't have either one, I cannot confirm. It is likely covered by the existing auto-detection code.

volpone · January 23, 2020

9 hours ago, Miska said:

Are you planning to use the input feature?

No needs for input feature at the moment. However i guess 3.x branch will not evolve anymore.

I appreciate to have the latest NAA version. I hadn't planned to upgrade to the new USBridge Sig (RPI / Buster) but maybe I should if NAA is only updated on Buster.

Miska · January 23, 2020

For input (or output), something like this should work:

https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-io/

I have one of those boards somewhere waiting for this feature, but I have not tested it yet.

P.S. It doesn't have automatic rate detection/switching either, see here. So the RME ADI-2 Pro remains as the best input device for Linux-based things.

luchoh · January 28, 2020

On 1/23/2020 at 4:08 AM, acatala said:

Hi @Miska,

Does NAA run in DSD native mode (at least DSD256) with AK4499 based DACs (Topping D90) and/or ES9038Pro (Topping DX7 Pro)?

I have been reading some articles and review about both DACs and it seems nice piece of hardware.

On 1/23/2020 at 4:17 AM, Miska said:

Maybe it does... But since I don't have either one, I cannot confirm. It is likely covered by the existing auto-detection code.

@Miska, first, let me thank you for your fantastic software - I'm using it daily for the past 3 years.

I just got a D90 and the NAA cannot recognize it (the native DSD that is), I'm sure it's not NAA's fault, but wanted to mention it here, before I hit the other forums and ultimately - return the DAC if there is no solution.

I have two other DACs here (not counting DSC2 which is patiently waiting for output transformers)L Khadas Tone board and iFi iDAC2. Both are being recognized properly - see HQPlayer log:

 2020/01/27 17:19:47  Network endpoint: iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio: USB Audio (hw:CARD=Audio,DEV=0)
+ 2020/01/27 17:19:47 Connect to 192.168.20.20:43210 [ipv4]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 44100/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 48000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 88200/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 96000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 176400/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 192000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 352800/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 384000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 2822400/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 3072000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 5644800/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 6144000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 11289600/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:19:47 Network format: 12288000/1/2 [dsd]

and

 2020/01/27 17:22:55  Network endpoint: Khadas Tone Control: USB Audio (hw:CARD=Control,DEV=0)
+ 2020/01/27 17:22:55 Connect to 192.168.20.55:43210 [ipv4]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 44100/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 48000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 88200/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 96000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 176400/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 192000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 352800/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 384000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 705600/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 768000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 2822400/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 3072000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 5644800/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 6144000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 11289600/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 12288000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 22579200/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/27 17:22:55 Network format: 24576000/1/2 [dsd]

However, try as I might, D90 is only recognized as PCM and can only play DoP. The "lowly" Khadas is totally fine at DSD256x48, while D90 chokes at this as it can't go above 768KHz to encapsulate DSD256x48.

2020/01/27 17:21:05  Network endpoint: D90: USB Audio (hw:CARD=D90,DEV=0)
+ 2020/01/27 17:21:05 Connect to 192.168.20.55:43210 [ipv4]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 44100/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 48000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 88200/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 96000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 176400/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 192000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 352800/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 384000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 705600/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 768000/32/2 [pcm]

I am using Odroid XU4Q as NAA (Debian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l, Linux DietPi 4.14.66+ #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Aug 23 05:59:33 UTC 2018 armv7l GNU/Linux). I have plenty of other SBCs (BBB, RPi3 and Odroid C2) and a couple of old (2011-2012) MacMinis that I could use if you think it might help. I can also install some Armbian with a newer kernel if it would make a difference.

I'd also be happy to do alpha/beta testing if you are interested.

Finally, sorry if this is off-topic: are you going to release an embedded version of HQP to match NAA4?

Thanks,

Lucho

Miska · January 28, 2020

3 hours ago, luchoh said:
However, try as I might, D90 is only recognized as PCM and can only play DoP. The "lowly" Khadas is totally fine at DSD256x48, while D90 chokes at this as it can't go above 768KHz to encapsulate DSD256x48.
2020/01/27 17:21:05  Network endpoint: D90: USB Audio (hw:CARD=D90,DEV=0)
+ 2020/01/27 17:21:05 Connect to 192.168.20.55:43210 [ipv4]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 44100/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 48000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 88200/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 96000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 176400/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 192000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 352800/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 384000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 705600/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 768000/32/2 [pcm]
I am using Odroid XU4Q as NAA (Debian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l, Linux DietPi 4.14.66+ #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Aug 23 05:59:33 UTC 2018 armv7l GNU/Linux). I have plenty of other SBCs (BBB, RPi3 and Odroid C2) and a couple of old (2011-2012) MacMinis that I could use if you think it might help. I can also install some Armbian with a newer kernel if it would make a difference.

Can you try my recently released NAA4 image on the RPi3? The kernel you have on Odroid is likely too old for the purpose... Or even better if you have some small spare PC to try the x64 image instead as RPi3 may have some playback issues due to the hardware limitations. Although it should be fine for checking the driver status.

3 hours ago, luchoh said:

Finally, sorry if this is off-topic: are you going to release an embedded version of HQP to match NAA4?

Sure! I'm working on it.

luchoh · January 28, 2020

5 hours ago, Miska said:

Can you try my recently released NAA4 image on the RPi3? The kernel you have on Odroid is likely too old for the purpose... Or even better if you have some small spare PC to try the x64 image instead as RPi3 may have some playback issues due to the hardware limitations. Although it should be fine for checking the driver status.

@Miska, thank you for the tip - it worked!

I booted one of the MacMinis with your x86 appliance and I have partial success.

Now the 44.1 rates work with DSD and 48 - don't - white noise. I did check 48k DSD option - this is how I've been using the other DACs previously.

This is what I'm getting, suggesting it should work at DSD256x48:

  2020/01/28 08:48:03  Network endpoint: D90: USB Audio (hw:CARD=D90,DEV=0)
+ 2020/01/28 08:48:03 Connect to 192.168.20.56:43210 [ipv4]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 44100/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 48000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 88200/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 96000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 176400/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 192000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 352800/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 384000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 705600/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 768000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 2822400/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 3072000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 5644800/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 6144000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 11289600/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 12288000/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 22579200/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 08:48:03 Network format: 24576000/1/2 [dsd]

Any ideas? I tried NAA 3.6.1. Maybe 4.x?

Thanks a lot for your quick help!

Lucho

Miska · January 28, 2020

1 hour ago, luchoh said:

I booted one of the MacMinis with your x86 appliance and I have partial success.

Now the 44.1 rates work with DSD and 48 - don't - white noise. I did check 48k DSD option - this is how I've been using the other DACs previously.

This is what I'm getting, suggesting it should work at DSD256x48:

That is quite usual problem, the DAC then just doesn't support DSD at multiples of 48k...

DAC is just advertising all rates because it supports PCM at those 48k multiples. So you need to uncheck the 48k DSD so that HQPlayer filters those rates out.

luchoh · January 28, 2020

1 hour ago, Miska said:

That is quite usual problem, the DAC then just doesn't support DSD at multiples of 48k...

DAC is just advertising all rates because it supports PCM at those 48k multiples. So you need to uncheck the 48k DSD so that HQPlayer filters those rates out.

@Miska thank you!

I would make one more post so that people who search for info have some reference.

1. When I upgraded the Odroid XU4 to Armbian with 5.4.6 kernel and NAA 4.0, the native DSD is ON.

2. Unlike the x64 (or maybe NAA 3.6.1 or maybe NAA image vs Armbian), the NAA 4.0 doesn't advertise the 48k DSD support, see below:

+ 2020/01/28 12:03:31 Connect to 192.168.20.55:43210 [ipv4]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 44100/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 48000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 88200/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 96000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 176400/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 192000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 352800/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 384000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 705600/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 768000/24/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 2822400/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 5644800/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 11289600/1/2 [dsd]
  2020/01/28 12:03:31 Network format: 22579200/1/2 [dsd]

I will hope for future firmware update, but won't hold my breath.

@Miska one last question: a workaround for this issue is to resample outside of HQPlayer (in my case - Roon).

Should I upsample all 48x rates to 705.6KHz and then feed it to HQPlayer or selectively for each rate?

Lucho

Miska · January 28, 2020

35 minutes ago, luchoh said:

@Miska one last question: a workaround for this issue is to resample outside of HQPlayer (in my case - Roon).

Should I upsample all 48x rates to 705.6KHz and then feed it to HQPlayer or selectively for each rate?

Why would you resample outside of HQPlayer instead of using HQPlayer for the purpose it is designed for?

luchoh · January 28, 2020

40 minutes ago, Miska said:

Why would you resample outside of HQPlayer instead of using HQPlayer for the purpose it is designed for?

@Miska there must be a setting that eludes me. If I uncheck 48k DSD and the stream rate is a multiple of 48KHz, the DAC refuses to play.

And it's not only D90 - I wasn't able to do it with any of the other ones.

I suspected it should be possible to do the resampling only in HQP, but ... obviously I'm missing something.

I'm getting

& 2020/01/28 13:24:01 Play
  2020/01/28 13:24:01 Offload: resampler=enabled convolution=disabled
+ 2020/01/28 13:24:01 Playback engine running
  2020/01/28 13:24:01 No suitable output rate for 96000, stop

...

I suppose I needed to uncheck Auto rate family...

acatala · January 28, 2020

From the log output from Luchoh, it seems that DSD512 is supported too. At least with the x64 image that is the one it should run in my UpBoard device. That's good news.

I mean, UpBoard with NAA x64 image (3.x or 4.x) + Topping D90 (with AK4499). Right?

Miska · January 28, 2020

33 minutes ago, acatala said:

From the log output from Luchoh, it seems that DSD512 is supported too. At least with the x64 image that is the one it should run in my UpBoard device. That's good news.

I mean, UpBoard with NAA x64 image (3.x or 4.x) + Topping D90 (with AK4499). Right?

Yes, it should work...

Jacky820 · January 29, 2020

Dear Miska,

May I know which approach is best SQ in HQPlayer with NNA? Thanks for the NNA 4.0 for Pi4!

Miska · January 29, 2020

3 hours ago, Jacky820 said:

Dear Miska,

May I know which approach is best SQ in HQPlayer with NNA? Thanks for the NNA 4.0 for Pi4!

The lower, blue one... That is a network. The upper one is not and has tons of problems.

Jacky820 · January 29, 2020

1 hour ago, Miska said:

The lower, blue one... That is a network. The upper one is not and has tons of problems.

Thanks for your quick response 😘

will go ahead for the LT3045 with battery module for su1 and 5ports 5V network switch!

Miska · January 29, 2020

5 hours ago, Jacky820 said:

Thanks for your quick response 😘

will go ahead for the LT3045 with battery module for su1 and 5ports 5V network switch!

Remember to check the switch specs that it supports at least 802.3x, 802.1p and preferably 802.3az. And is in a metal case - no plastic affairs.

And no shielded Ethernet cables!

cat6man · January 31, 2020

hi jussi

can we get an NAA 4.0 image build for cubox, which in the past has covered both Rendu and TotalDAC streamers?

cheers

craighartley · January 31, 2020

31 minutes ago, cat6man said:

hi jussi

can we get an NAA 4.0 image build for cubox, which in the past has covered both Rendu and TotalDAC streamers?

cheers

+1

Jacky820 · February 1, 2020

tried few MicroSD card for Pi4 with NNA4

The Toshiba one is much solid...

Please feel free to share your setup for the better SQ!

HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

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