HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Did you check with ifconfig that you have proper IPv4 and IPv6 address on your network interface?

 

 

Will send ifconfig output via email to you.

[asdf1000]

Just to help the others having issues with macOS NAA 3561 on Mojave, I got it working now thanks to some extra help from @Miska

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/?do=findComment&comment=975010

 

[asdf1000]

Hmmm so it’s working because I disabled IPv6

 

Will continue trying to find why it won’t work with IPv6 on Mojave but works with Windows on the same Mac and same network setup

[Miska]

7 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hmmm so it’s working because I disabled IPv6

 

Will continue trying to find why it won’t work with IPv6 on Mojave but works with Windows on the same Mac and same network setup

 

macOS has always been a bit tricky with the IPv4+IPv6 dual protocol stack. On HQPlayer I already migrated away from the dual stack mode because it was too much pain on macOS. I'll probably do the same on networkaudiod also, but it'll take some time since it takes quite a bunch of changes.

 

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

macOS has always been a bit tricky with the IPv4+IPv6 dual protocol stack. On HQPlayer I already migrated away from the dual stack mode because it was too much pain on macOS. I'll probably do the same on networkaudiod also, but it'll take some time since it takes quite a bunch of changes.

 

 

Thanks Jussi. Maybe that's why it works for me on Windows (on same Mac, with same networking chain) - it's only using IPv4 on Windows?

 

How would I be able to double check this on Windows? 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Thanks Jussi. Maybe that's why it works for me on Windows (on same Mac, with same networking chain) - it's only using IPv4 on Windows?

 

How would I be able to double check this on Windows? 

 

It is always using dual stack on Windows and Linux, for a really long time. Unless you explicitly disable it the same way. IPv6 support was only recently enabled on macOS version.

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

On 7/20/2019 at 9:33 PM, Miska said:

 

HQPlayer and NAA both assume OS to have IPv6 enabled. At least Microsoft and probably Apple too have IPv6 enabled by default these days.

 

For wired ethernet on MacBooks I recommend using Apple's Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter.

 

works great with my MBP but not with a Air 11" : plug does not go fully in and it does not work

[Bob Stern]

6 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

works great with my MBP but not with a Air 11":  [Thunderbolt] plug does not go fully in and it does not work

 

Do you have any other Thunderbolt cables that do insert fully in the same jack?  If you've never used the Thunderbolt jack, it probably will loosen up the first time you use it.  If you're not using Thunderbolt for anything else, I see little risk in pushing harder.  Alternatively, take the Air to the Apple Store and ask them to assess whether the insertion force is excessive so as to merit warranty repair.  In any event, too tight is better than too loose so that the cable could fall out during use!

[Le Concombre Masqué]

3 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

 

Do you have any other Thunderbolt cables that do insert fully in the same jack?  If you've never used the Thunderbolt jack, it probably will loosen up the first time you use it.  If you're not using Thunderbolt for anything else, I see little risk in pushing harder.  Alternatively, take the Air to the Apple Store and ask them to assess whether the insertion force is excessive so as to merit warranty repair.  In any event, too tight is better than too loose so that the cable could fall out during use!

Thank you Bob, I think that Air has shallow entries by design. The same adaptor works great with my MBP 15r. Anyway the Air is just a loan and if I was to keep it that would rather be as a front machine ie running Audirvana to feed Embedded. Just a warning for others. At the moment I use the Air for NAA with a USB to Ethernet adaptor + USB hub as there's also the USB stick to plug. Gets hot but works ; I have a UP NUC coming 

 

[Guf Gufler]

I know that NAA as usually run on a simple quiet compute.  Could i run a NAA on my desktop iMac that i use daily and control with roon through the core HQPlayer then to my desktop?  seems like it should work?  i am getting this. 

[Miska]

4 hours ago, Guf Gufler said:

I know that NAA as usually run on a simple quiet compute.  Could i run a NAA on my desktop iMac that i use daily and control with roon through the core HQPlayer then to my desktop?  seems like it should work?  i am getting this. 

 

You could try starting it from terminal with command "NETWORKAUDIOD_IPV6=0 networkaudiod". But copy the executable to /usr/local/bin directory first.

 

[Guf Gufler]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

You could try starting it from terminal with command "NETWORKAUDIOD_IPV6=0 networkaudiod". But copy the executable to /usr/local/bin directory first.

 

"bam"  worked!  thanks!  but why? will I have to do this each time to start? 

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Guf Gufler said:

"bam"  worked!  thanks!  but why? will I have to do this each time to start? 

 

There's some IPv6 problem in your network configuration so the dual stack doesn't come up.

 

Yes, it needs to be started that way always.

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

My UP NUC for NAA has finally shipped.

 

I plug the ethernet cable the power cable the usb cable (to the DAC) the usb stick with the NAA image, find the power switch and be happy forever (well, as long as audiophilia allows) or should I be aware of this or that ?

[dctom]

On 2/4/2019 at 2:58 PM, Miska said:

 

As long as you don't use shielded cables, ethernet is isolated at both ends using transformers. Since the signaling is differential, any common mode noise is canceled in the transformers. If you have a switch in the middle, you double the number of isolation barriers between HQPlayer computer and NAA.

 

NAA is designed for normal home network infra and works well in such environment. I'd say 90% of the problems are from cases where someone is trying to use point-to-point connections - which is not a network anymore.

 

HQPlayer OS image still usually works in such environments too, because it bridges multiple ethernet adapters together. Essentially creating a switch inside the HQPE computer and thus joining NAA to rest of the network. But this is not recommended configuration as it puts unnecessary extra strain on the HQPE computer. It is better to use a good switch instead since switches are specialized hardware and software just for that single purpose and generally do better job at it.

 

 

I have been unable to connect HQp to naa on two directly connected Ubuntu machines. Over on the “how to massively improve SQ” thread one of the original premises has been to directly connect to improve SQ, rather than use a switch, unless you have an “audiophile switch”. This has been my finding when using JRiver on the directly connected machines. JRiver to JRiver works direct and sounds excellent. HQp to naa via switch works but SQ is diminished??

l do use shielded Ethernet cables does this has any bearing on things?

[asdf1000]

7 minutes ago, dctom said:

l do use shielded Ethernet cables does this has any bearing on things?

 

Jussi may fall off his chair when he sees this 😁

 

If you search the forum for "STP" by "Miska" you'll see what he thinks about this... a few different links here:

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/54890-gigabit-ethernet-fiber-media-converters/?tab=comments#comment-899709

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/43500-psa-how-to-directly-connect-naa-to-hqp-without-bridging-in-windows/?tab=comments#comment-829843

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/43500-psa-how-to-directly-connect-naa-to-hqp-without-bridging-in-windows/?tab=comments#comment-829854

 

[dctom]

Oh not a good idea then - thanks for the links. Having read elsewhere shielded ethernet was a good thing I made some up. However the shield is only connected at one end, the source end. Don't know if that is any better there being no physical connection between the computers through the shield?

[jabbr]

On 7/26/2019 at 3:10 AM, dctom said:

I have been unable to connect HQp to naa on two directly connected Ubuntu machines. Over on the “how to massively improve SQ” thread one of the original premises has been to directly connect to improve SQ, rather than use a switch, unless you have an “audiophile switch”.

 

No need for an audiophile switch. Direct connect server to NAA is not recommended. The SQ of “not working” can’t be very good. It’s possibly that a really cheap switch could transmit noise (I don’t know, never had a bad switch). Just get a high quality switch. 

[jabbr]

 

Raspberry Pi 4 gets nice and warm in its new Flirc aluminum case. DSD512 working great over Wi-Fi ac 5ghz. The Pro-ject S2D is happy. 5V/3A PSU.

[Miska]

On 7/28/2019 at 2:06 AM, jabbr said:

No need for an audiophile switch. Direct connect server to NAA is not recommended. The SQ of “not working” can’t be very good. It’s possibly that a really cheap switch could transmit noise (I don’t know, never had a bad switch). Just get a high quality switch. 

 

And a switch will likely emit less noise noise by itself than a PC...

 

A good switch in metal enclosure with a built-in PSU using proper IEC power cord is a good starting point.

 

I personally have three switches on the way from my server to a NAA. Two room specific switches and one central switch at the patch bay.

 

[Miska]

On 7/28/2019 at 2:09 AM, jabbr said:

Raspberry Pi 4 gets nice and warm in its new Flirc aluminum case. DSD512 working great over Wi-Fi ac 5ghz. The Pro-ject S2D is happy. 5V/3A PSU.

 

For the sake of testing, I tested 8 channels of DSD256 to exaSound e28 DAC over 5 GHz WiFi. It was working fine, NAA in that case was my old Mac Mini connected over wired Ethernet. Source was a Lenovo T470p laptop connected to WiFi.

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

On 7/28/2019 at 1:09 AM, jabbr said:

 

Raspberry Pi 4 gets nice and warm in its new Flirc aluminum case. DSD512 working great over Wi-Fi ac 5ghz. The Pro-ject S2D is happy. 5V/3A PSU.

looks like I could have saved money, expectancy time and time piercing walls for the ethernet cables...

 

finally got the Up this noon. small works fine, sound different from Macbook Air out of the box : can't play pleasurably as loud  on the other hand soundstage seems deeper... will get used to it or will break in, whatever, I guess

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

looks like I could have saved money, expectancy time and time piercing walls for the ethernet cables...

 

Hopefully you pierced the walls w fiber  That still works most reliably for me. WiFi remains a bit finicky in the sense that there are occasional dropouts. Wi-Fi is more sensitive to what is going on in the rest of the House eg someone watching Netflix, playing video games etc. Ethernet still gives straight uncontested bandwidth, less latency etc if that matters — whatever the reasons-no dropouts  That said for <$100 including alum case, the RPi4 is worth a listen. 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

maybe my ears my biases my whatever but last night I heard live a jazz piece and wanted to hear the original back home. The track started with some weirdness that puzzled me yesterday since I replaced the Air by the UP but suddenly, in the middle of the track, I could crank the volume a good 6 dB to realistic very enjoyable volume.

Bottom line : I'm about to launch HQP and now expect the UP + MeanWell medical grade PSU to be very pleasurable. Don't know what and if something had to break in but it was pretty fast.

[fas42]

2 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

maybe my ears my biases my whatever but last night I heard live a jazz piece and wanted to hear the original back home. The track started with some weirdness that puzzled me yesterday since I replaced the Air by the UP but suddenly, in the middle of the track, I could crank the volume a good 6 dB to realistic very enjoyable volume.

Bottom line : I'm about to launch HQP and now expect the UP + MeanWell medical grade PSU to be very pleasurable. Don't know what and if something had to break in but it was pretty fast.

 

This is an interesting aspect of audio playback ... human hearing is very sensitive to undesirable anomalies, and if they are present that can make a major difference to the ability to enjoy the experience - although the actual change in some property in the sound may be very slight, almost unmeasurable by normal standards, there can be a huge step in the perceived SQ. Unfortunately, this can be both directions, - I have had major battles with rigs slipping in and out of the "good zone"; and usually the hardest thing is to identify what's going on ...

 

The takeaway is that one should never seriously evaluate the potential of a system by a short exposure to the sound - an almost minimal adjustment may cause a major transformation in the presentation; and, yes, for better and for worse, .