HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[jabbr]

On 7/2/2018 at 1:39 AM, WenYee said:

https://github.com/ayufan-rock64/linux-build/releases/tag/0.6.44

 

I chose stretch-minimal-rock64-0.6.44-239-arm64.img.xz   for os.

Then

wget https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/linux/xenial/networkaudiod_3.5.4-38_arm64.deb

sudo dpkg -i networkaudiod_3.5.4-38_arm64.deb

 

It is much better than Raspberry Pi 3B and better than allo sparky. Please try it!

Does it have builtin WiFi 802.11ac? If so I'm happy to try it.

[jabbr]

On 6/26/2018 at 6:01 PM, Miska said:

 

Oh yes it does, I can hotplug as much as I want. Sometimes for some hardware, either hardware is buggy or Linux kernel driver support for the hardware is buggy and then something may not work. But on x86 xHCI has been working fine for me for a long time...

 

 

I can confirm that the problem here was the iFi iDSD Micro using the 5.2 driver ... its been buggy for me ... could be a hardware issue... I got a new BL which seems to be ok... the older Micro seems to shut off sometimes and get lost to the network and a simple power down and then power up doesn't always work ... but when Linux recognizes then networkaudiod does also and all is well... 

 

Of note, I even tried upgrading the firmware to 5.3 but (!!!!!!!) @AMR/iFi audio in their infinite wisdom cripples the new firmware by dropping DSD512 support in lieu of MQA, so who knows what the problem is, but perhaps my device is faulty...

[AMR/iFi audio]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

Of note, I even tried upgrading the firmware to 5.3 but (!!!!!!!) @AMR/iFi audio in their infinite wisdom cripples the new firmware by dropping DSD512 support in lieu of MQA, so who knows what the problem is, but perhaps my device is faulty...

 

It's not faulty, FW with MQA on-board had to be truncated to DSD256. This was done on purpose and we've already covered extensively why. Feel free to take a look in our subforum here on CA.

[jabbr]

18 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

It's not faulty,

I have two Micros, one original and a BL. The original locks up for unexpected reasons, often after not being used. Perhaps it’s battery powering itself. I try to always remember to turn it off and on so that it will bus power. I think that when a device has so many features and options that it can lead to problems if the UI isn’t explicit. Eg you might have used one of the switches that I never use to do battery vs bus power, and leave the filters as a software option but that’s your choice.

 

I didn’t say the new firmware was faulty, rather crippled. Removing the DSD512 cripples the device in my opinion. There.

[AMR/iFi audio]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

I didn’t say the new firmware was faulty, rather crippled. Removing the DSD512 cripples the device in my opinion. There.

 

We did this because there was no valid way around it at this time. Perhaps in the future we'll figure something out, but for now it is what it.  

 

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

Eg you might have used one of the switches that I never use to do battery vs bus power, and leave the filters as a software option 

 

We've learned over the years that our way is to listen to/satisfy as many customers as possible. Even in spite of our efforts, some won't be in 100% pleased, which is fine, we take it on the chin ? 

 

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

... but that’s your choice.

 

Yes, we have the last word of course, but - as explained above - we very much listen to our customers and give them as many options as we can. 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, jabbr said:

Of note, I even tried upgrading the firmware to 5.3 but (!!!!!!!) @AMR/iFi audio in their infinite wisdom cripples the new firmware by dropping DSD512 support in lieu of MQA, so who knows what the problem is, but perhaps my device is faulty...

 

Just stick to the older firmware until iFi releases corresponding non-MQA firmware that still has DSD512 capability. I think they hinted about such possibility at one point.

 

I read the notes and didn't install the MQA firmware, I certainly don't need MQA, but I need DSD512. So I will stick to the current until something else appears. But I guess you can also go back to 5.2?

 

If I ever want to listen MQA, I can let Roon or A+ decode it and then let HQPlayer upsample the decoded one to DSD512.

 

[jabbr]

17 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

Yes, we have the last word of course, but - as explained above - we very much listen to our customers and give them as many options as we can.

Fair enough ... I don’t mind speaking up and figure that if I’m having trouble with something that others might also...

 

Im also generally much more willing to delve into nitty gritty config issues than most so again ...

[jabbr]

5 minutes ago, Miska said:

I read the notes and didn't install the MQA firmware, I certainly don't need MQA, but I need DSD512. So I will stick to the current until something else appears. But I guess you can also go back to 5.2?

Yes that was easy enough!

 

Still not sure that the individual unit I have isn’t glitchy, but just wanted to confirm that this isn’t a networkaudiod issue! Nor a Linux issue ... and hotplug works at my house ?

[AMR/iFi audio]

12 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Fair enough ... I don’t mind speaking up and figure that if I’m having trouble with something that others might also...

 

Im also generally much more willing to delve into nitty gritty config issues than most so again ...

 

We do what we can. It was difficult to have MQA ready all across the board and perfectly stable, we had to (and still have to) work with limited computing power inside of our hardware to make it all possible. Not an easy task. It's like playing the latest PC game on an old machine. You have to tweak your settings here and there to have it at 30 fps at least and - you probably understand the analogy - that's why DSD512 is not available with MQA at this time. Essentially what people after DSD512+MQA want from us is to have the latest game running on the same old hardware in 60 fps with high settings. On paper it's unrealistic... and yet we try.  

[Miska]

3 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Still not sure that the individual unit I have isn’t glitchy, but just wanted to confirm that this isn’t a networkaudiod issue! Nor a Linux issue ... and hotplug works at my house ?

 

My original micro iDSD is also falling of the USB every now and then, at varying frequency, more frequently as it ages. In kernel log I see various USB errors when that happens. Unplug/replug cycle fixes the problem (the DAC needs to be off). I've also seen it happen on my Windows desktop with ASIO driver.

 

It is much more obvious to me than maybe for many others, because my machines run 24/7. But I turned the DAC on only when I needed it (some hours daily). In any case the USB side is always powered from the computer and that where the problem happens after a while.

 

My micro iDSD BL does that much less, but it is also a lot newer. It certainly isn't just 5.2 firmware.

 

Based on my testing I suspect it is related to the battery charging cycle or something similar and the related current spike on USB VBUS. Because it somewhat also depends on the machine and what else is connected to the same USB branch (neighboring connector, etc). This is also why I say about the DAC age, because as the battery ages it probably charges more frequently even when not really used to power the DAC.

 

At the moment I only use my micro iDSD's with my laptop when I'm on the go, because I can still test DSD512 in mobile environment. And I don't hit the issue frequently anymore because the DAC is not connected 24/7 anymore.

 

I've reported this at least once, maybe twice, to iFi over email a long ago.

[Miska]

...and curiously putting micro iUSB between the two didn't solve the problem...

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

We do what we can. It was difficult to have MQA ready all across the board and perfectly stable, we had to (and still have to) work with limited computing power inside of our hardware to make it all possible. Not an easy task. It's like playing the latest PC game on an old machine. You have to tweak your settings here and there to have it at 30 fps at least and - you probably understand the analogy - that's why DSD512 is not available with MQA at this time. Essentially what people after DSD512+MQA want from us is to have the latest game running on the same old hardware in 60 fps with high settings. On paper it's unrealistic... and yet we try.  

 

I doubt there are many people who want to have both. So having two firmware variants should be perfectly fine, although it is more maintenance work for you.

 

People who use DSD512 likely decode MQA in software and upsample to DSD512. While people who want DAC to decode MQA likely won't have (care about) any DSD512 material to send there and don't use software upsampling anyway.

 

[AMR/iFi audio]

21 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I doubt there are many people who want to have both. So having two firmware variants should be perfectly fine, although it is more maintenance work for you.

 

People who use DSD512 likely decode MQA in software and upsample to DSD512. While people who want DAC to decode MQA likely won't have (care about) any DSD512 material to send there and don't use software upsampling anyway.

 

 

Yes, rather small percentage of our customers will exploit DSD512 and MQA. Still, if we can provide them with alternatives, we do. Even if from time to time we're bashed for this.

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Yes, rather small percentage of our customers will exploit DSD512 and MQA. Still, if we can provide them with alternatives, we do. Even if from time to time we're bashed for this.

 

No, but apparently Jussi @Miska and I both have had similar issues with the iFi Micro locking up ... that's what prompted my over eager loading of 5.3 .. y'know hoping that upgrading firmware would correct the issue. What I see is that instead the limited firmware resources of AMR have been devoted to developing MQA support which I have absolutely no need nor desire for. Thats my disappointment.

[Miska]

IIRC, someone told me that xDSD with the same 5.2 firmware doesn't have this issue. And I think he also had micro iDSD.

 

But I don't have enough information about the inner details of this to work out if where exactly the problem is.

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, jabbr said:

No, but apparently Jussi @Miska and I both have had similar issues with the iFi Micro locking up ... that's what prompted my over eager loading of 5.3 ..

 

I had the same issue with iDSD BL... I have no such issues with the new xDSD... 

 

So it might be a firmware thing or actually hardware thing (new XMOS USB interface)...

[n2it]

On 7/4/2018 at 4:36 PM, Miska said:

 

I doubt there are many people who want to have both. So having two firmware variants should be perfectly fine, although it is more maintenance work for you.

 

People who use DSD512 likely decode MQA in software and upsample to DSD512. While people who want DAC to decode MQA likely won't have (care about) any DSD512 material to send there and don't use software upsampling anyway.

 

 

In the context of using this at home, I totally agree with you - and think that ifi has made a reasonable choice and it at least lets the customers have some sort of choice (still room for improvement though! - would be nice to be able to support both at the same time or at least one at a time without having to load different firmware).  I am currently upsampling to DSD256 (and working to overcome some limitations to get to DSD512) and software decoding MQA.  This is what I do on my PC where it is powered and has very little CPU constraints.

 

Just thinking aloud here - and sorry if this takes this more off topic - does this apply to mobile applications?  I am starting to try upsampling to DSD on my android phone connected to an external, portable DAC.  In this setup - I think ideally I'd want to offload (both DSD upsampling and MQA) to a (hopefully much more efficient embedded processing on the) external DAC, instead of using the cpu / software / battery on my phone.  (I guess one could argue I should get a fit for purpose mobile device - but I like having the one phone to carry - and simply adding on the DAC when needed)

[Miska]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:33 PM, n2it said:

Just thinking aloud here - and sorry if this takes this more off topic - does this apply to mobile applications?  I am starting to try upsampling to DSD on my android phone connected to an external, portable DAC.  In this setup - I think ideally I'd want to offload (both DSD upsampling and MQA) to a (hopefully much more efficient embedded processing on the) external DAC, instead of using the cpu / software / battery on my phone.  (I guess one could argue I should get a fit for purpose mobile device - but I like having the one phone to carry - and simply adding on the DAC when needed)

 

You would just move the battery burn from place A to place B...

 

So far the best mobile upsampling I've found, is a laptop with quad-core i7 and discrete Nvidia GPU... But depends if you are ready to make a compromise. I'm not very much a compromise type of person.

 

[jabbr]

On 7/6/2018 at 9:33 AM, n2it said:

I am starting to try upsampling to DSD on my android phone connected to an external, portable DAC.  In this setup - I think ideally I'd want to offload (both DSD upsampling and MQA) to a (hopefully much more efficient embedded processing on the) external DAC, instead of using the cpu / software / battery on my phone. 

 

What software are you using on Android to upsample to DSD?

 

Probably every portable DAC you have will convert PCM to SDM as part of the DAC itself so kinda different than converting to DSD before the DAC.

[Miska]

Onkyo HF Player at least has DSD upsampling feature. It is available for both Android and iOS. Of course quite "shoehorned" algorithm to make it work on a phone-type hardware.

 

[n2it]

On 7/8/2018 at 8:12 PM, jabbr said:

What software are you using on Android to upsample to DSD?

 

Probably every portable DAC you have will convert PCM to SDM as part of the DAC itself so kinda different than converting to DSD before the DAC.

 

What I've played with so far:

• Onkyo HF Player (Android)
  • can upsample PCM to DSD128
  • no DSD to DSD upsampling
  • Supports DSD (no conversion) up to my USB DAC limit (DSD512).  Also supports via DOP, but I didn't try.
  • Didn't try iDevice version (assume it has similar limitations / features)
• Usb Audio Player Pro (Android)
  • can upsample PCM to highest PCM (was 756/704 is the limit on my DAC) but not to DSD.
  • no DSD to DSD upsampling
  • Supports DSD (no conversion) up to my USB DAC limit (DSD512).  Also supports via DOP, but I didn't try.
• Korg iAudioGate (i devices)
  • can upsample PCM to DSD256 (depending upon iDevice version)
  • it is supposed to be able to upsample DSD up to DSD128 - but that is not working on my iDevice/DAC combo. 
  • Supports DSD up to DSD256 (I think via DOP).  I didn't try playing a DSD512 file
  • Very difficult to get songs on device (basically they have to be in a cloud drive (I used onedrive) and then you select them one at a time).  There might be an easier way using iTunes but I hate iTunes ...
  • I did like that it displayed/was able to play any Apple Music songs that I had downloaded on the device

Upsampling capabilities aside - I am mostly using usb audio player pro - as it has a lot more features (e.g. TIDAL, DLNA (including gapless playback), etc.) 

 

 

 

 

[mvilla]

Hi everyone

need your advice to change my switch. 

 

I'm using HQPlayer on a MacMini and a CuBox as NAA. 

 

If I remember well, Miska highlighted the importance of the connection between the switch and the NAA and suggested the usage of an Ethernet optical cable.

 

My 2 questions:

 

Switch: eg. Is the Netgear GS110TP-200EUS ProSAFE that kind of switch? Is this model a good one to buy?

 

Cable: can you please suggest an Ethernet optical cable I can use to connect that switch to the CuBox?

 

Many thanks in advance. 

Massimo 

[jabbr]

If you’d like to do fiberoptic Ethernet look into the Solid-Run ClearFog Base which accepts an SFP input. You need a switch with an SFP port. SFP does both fiber & copper so you can connect your MacMini.

36 minutes ago, mvilla said:

Netgear GS110TP-200EUS ProSAFE

Works. Has 2 SFP ports.

 

Cable: LC-LC multimode — any but if you want a brand then Corning 

[Ralf11]

On 6/17/2018 at 7:37 AM, jabbr said:

 ... all copesthetic.  

 

 

I usually advocate strong penalties for phone posting, but this should be a most xlnt addition to American slang.

[Ralf11]

On 6/18/2018 at 5:56 PM, jabbr said:

The RPi 3 B+ over 802.11ac does DSD256 (at least) with USB2 out to DAC and sounds great.

 

Do we have a new high SQ, low cost backend for computer audio?