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HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

HQPlayer Embedded separates the player into headless server and touch-optimized GUIs. The GUI works also with mouse, but is designed specifically for touch. It is probably most convenient with Windows 8 (non-RT) tablets. It supports both 4:3 and 16:9 display ratios with different layouts. Embedded server uses same configuration file as the Desktop version and is usually most convenient to initially configure using the Desktop version smaller modifications can be made by hand with text editor.

 

Miska,

 

I am in the process of trying out various options with HQPlayer and had a question on the above statement. Planning to have NAA setup connected to DAC in the listening room. The server will be sitting in the basement connected via gigabit wired connection. Will the HP Windows 8 tablet be good enough for the remote portion if I go the embedded route. Initial thought was to run HQPlayer on Win 8.1 or Win 2012R2 server and use RDP to manage but if I can run embedded on the server and use the Win tablet to manage configuration and control it would be great.

 

Will 801.11n be good enough for DSD (128-bit) traffic or should I use 802.11ac? I have option to run both.

Thx

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

Personally I would look for Lenovo (M73, M83, M93 Tiny), HP Elitedesk G1 (400, 600, 800 USDT/Mini) or Dell (7xxx, 9xxx USFF) as NAA over Mac Mini. I have seen those go anywhere from 350 to 450 for 4th gen i5 processor on ebay and also sometimes on Lenovo's outlet site. The primary reason is that you are going to blow away the MacOSX on the system and install Debian or some other Linux variable to install NAA (unless Miska comes out with Mac OSX versio of NAA).

 

I picked up a Lenovo M73 Tiny with 4th gen i3 processor for around 225 (I got lucky with buy it now option) and it is dead quite.

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted
thank you ; what would make them preferable to a Cubox ?

 

I prefer to have a systems that can be reused if possible (my old desktop systems are now acting as file servers :-) ), plus I have never used Cubox and the last time I had looked at the price it was around 125 or so with very limited options. If you decide to move away from NAA I am not sure what else you can use the Cubox for. The other option in the same price range as Cubox is ECS LIVA system but can be reused with Win8.1 system if Linux does not work out.

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

I got the NAA installed on the xubuntu 14.04 lts and working with HQPlayer running on Windows 8.1 system in about 10 minutes.

 

My setup is HQPlayer (Lenovo TS140 Server with Xeon processor) --> Gigabit Ethernet --> NAA (Lenovo M73 with xubuntu) --> DAC (with Amanero USB). As soon as I plugged in the DAC, I was able to see the option under HQPlayer.

 

I just need to figure out how to convert everything to DSD and send it to NAA. Any one have any link on how to set that up on HQPlayer.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that I am using RDP client on iPad to logon to the windows box to control HQPlayer.

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

tcpdump output in the NAA PC:

 

root@voyage:~# tcpdump -i eth0 not host 192.168.1.8

tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode

listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 65535 bytes

^C

0 packets captured

0 packets received by filter

0 packets dropped by kernel

 

tcpdump output in the HQP PC:

 

victor@hqplayer:~$ sudo tcpdump -i eth0 not host 192.168.1.11

[sudo] password for victor:

tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode

listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 65535 bytes

11:07:31.732271 IP 192.168.1.8 > 224.0.0.22: igmp v3 report, 1 group record(s)

11:07:38.107551 IP 192.168.1.8 > 224.0.0.22: igmp v3 report, 1 group record(s)

11:09:12.482126 IP 192.168.1.8 > 224.0.0.22: igmp v3 report, 1 group record(s)

11:09:15.823232 IP 192.168.1.8 > 224.0.0.22: igmp v3 report, 1 group record(s)

^C

4 packets captured

4 packets received by filter

0 packets dropped by kernel

 

 

Victor,

 

Try changing the tcpdump command and remove the "not" before the host. It's been awhile with using tcpdump but if you use "not" option you are basically saying give me all information other than what is after the "not". So your command

 

tcpdump -i eth0 not host 192.168.1.11 is basically giving you all traffic generated and any traffic from 192.168.1.11 is not being displayed.

 

Personally, I prefer to run the tcpdump command with out any option and then review the result.

 

tcpdump -i eth0

 

Can you confirm that you have ip connectivity between the two system. Are you able to ping NAA from HQP and HQP from NAA.

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted
Not sure if these have been covered completely elsewhere on the forum but here are a few of my questions for the NAA setup:

 

1. Can I use Mac OS X as NAA? I saw Geoff mention easy switching of HQPlayer from Desktop to NAA mode just today or yesterday.

 

2. There are updated Linux images and other files for native DSD streaming support with XMOS. Can I use these on a Lubuntu 32-bit install? Can't find the install instructions again, a centralised FAQ on the Signalyst website would be helpful.

 

3. Should the idea of using a RaspberryPi as NAA with support for native DSD streaming be abandoned?

 

4. Is using an NAA through Wi-Fi possible? Not recommended? Is wired Ethernet the only way or the best way?

 

Thanks.

 

Hopefully Miska would not mind my sharing bit of information from email thread that I had going with him related to updated Linux packages. I had asked him if I needed to install updated Kernel or libasound2 packages to support DSD on Linux for HQPlayer and below is his response. My DAC only does 128bit DSD so it did not apply to me.

 

"Unless you have iFi or Marantz DAC, or DIYINHK interface, you don't need to install those packages. Both iFi and Marantz also work without those, but it open up support for DSD256 on iDSD Nano and DSD512 on iDSD Micro."

 

 

As for your question related to NAA through Wi-Fi I am running that setup but my wi-fi setup is around 802.11ac and I no issues so far. Installing xubuntu and NAA on the Lenovo i3 was quick and easy. Not sure about how easy it is to install it on RaspberryPi. I rather be listening to music instead of mucking around with installation :-)

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

 

But the question remains: I have an old PC with 32-bits only. Managed to install Ubuntu 14, then the Lubuntu distro and desktop (otherwise it's too slow it's unusable...). Now, the requisite realtime kernel patches as well as libasound2 (any other thing, I can't remember and actually can't find the instructions again), can they be installed on this 32-bit setup or not?

 

If they can, I will then be able to do one or two things, like using a special mpd to play native streaming DSD256, and test HQ Player from Mac OS X to this Linux PC as NAA. Far from ideal, but at least we get some isolation from the server computer and its disk drive and electrical activity.

 

I will have to let Miska answer your question about if NAA needs the kernel and libasound2 drivers.

 

Just looked at both NAA packages on the website and kernel/libasound2 directory. Looking at the directory listing and package naming convention the NAA package is 32bit while the kernel/libasound2 packages you have the option of installing either x64 or 32bit packages. So you should be able to install both just not 100% sure on all the dependencies for the packages.

 

Are you planning to use the 32-bit system strictly as a NAA/MPD. For NAA you do not need any of the desktop management options so you could potentially strip it down even further but uninstalling unnecessary packages/services which will free up some additional resources.

 

Once I have all the configuration working I plan to rebuild the NAA starting with network install of ubuntu server 14.04, which will have bare bone setup just for NAA

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  • 2 weeks later...
shadowlight

shadowlight

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Posted

In case folks are thinking about running NAA on Ubuntu. Here is what I did to install mine.

 

Download Ubuntu Trusty Minimal Installation ISO

 

Go through the normal installation for Ubuntu. When prompted at the end select the following two options:

 

Basic Ubuntu

OpenSSH Server

 

Once the server has rebooted logon with your account and run the update commands to ensure that you have the latest packages for base OS (if using minimal you already have the latest but just in case you should go ahead and do that to pickup any security/bug fix packages)

 

sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

 

Install Low Latency Kernel / Headers / Tools

 

sudo apt-get install linux-image-lowlatency linux-headers-lowlatency linux-tools-lowlatency

 

Reboot Server after Low Latency Kernel is installed

 

reboot

 

Install Libasound2 and base Alsa

 

sudo apt-get install libasound2 alsa-base

 

Download NAA 3.0 from Signalyst Website, install package and reboot

wget https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/v3/trusty/networkaudiod_3.0.0-22_amd64.deb
dpkg -i networkaudiod_3.0.0-22_amd64.deb
reboot

 

Miska, please correct any misinformation (I do not believe base alsa package is needed but I was not sure so I went ahead and installed the package)

 

Here is my working setup.

 

  • Lenovo TS140 (Xeon - E3-1225, 4GB memory (plan to upgrade it to 16 or more and Samsung SSD) with Win8.1 and HQPlayer 3.6. I convert everything to 2xDSD with DoP
  • Lenovo M73 Tiny (i3-4130T, 4GB memory and Samsung SSD) NAA running Ubuntu Trusty connected via wireless network interface (Edimax AC1200, had to compile and install drivers, in case anyone else is thinking about using that card)
  • Lampizator 4.5 with DSD with Amanero Combo384 USB Interface

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

I am running into couple of issues/questions with NAA and HQPlayer

 

 

  1. Occasionally I have to restart the NAA v.3 daemon for it to show up in HQPlayer.
  2. I am upconverting everything to 2xDSD and every time a song starts or ends I hear a click, including the gaps between song. Is there a way for me to prevent that. The USB card in question is Amanero Combo384. I have tried both DSD7 and ASDM5.
  3. Is there a way to play everything in gapless mode?
  4. How do I play a playlist generated by JRiver?
  5. Anyway to integrated Spotify/Tidal/Pandora with HQPlayer?

 

TIA

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted
Which OS the NAA is on?

 

I have only one machine that is having some issues. My MacMini running Windows 8.1 tends to lose some of the discovery messages, so it is not always found. I updated the Broadcom NIC driver, but it didn't help much. It is also sometimes having issues finding SMB shares. I have not yet found root cause of this problem, but I will keep looking.

 

 

HQPlayer 3.6 running on Windows 8.1, NAA running on stripped down Ubuntu using commands listed here. I am using Edimax AC1200 USB adapter on the NAA where I had to compile the modules but the same setup was working find with the older version of NAA and HQPlayer when I was evaluating.

 

 

What is the format of the two files where this transition problem between files happens?

 

Everything is gapless by default, except the special case when playing DSD files in playlist mode (as opposed to album mode). In this case, there's a bit of special processing performed to provide smooth transition between unrelated DSD tracks, but there may still be a slight click/pop on the transition depending on content.

 

Slight correction. It happens when the album starts and stops. All files tried so far are redbook 44.1/16-bit/2-c.

 

Thx for the rest of the information.

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  • 2 weeks later...
shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

I’d like to try using an NAA with HQPlayer, and am leaning toward using an sms-100 for this. The problem is that all associated gear will be consolidated in one room (living room) where I don’t have capability to connect the network router to our LAN via Ethernet cable. Thus, there’d be “mini-network” connectivity between the server/router/NAA/DAC – but no hard-wired internet connectivity. Is there a way that I can still get the HQPlayer/NAA setup to work? WiFi is available to the server (MBP) with strong signal (802.11n).

 

The desired setup would be:

MacBook Pro (early 2011 2.3 GHz core i5, 8GB RAM; music library on external HDD (firewire)) > network router > sms-100 > Berkeley alpha USB > Berkeley alpha DAC

 

That setup should work fine. I do not believe HQPlayer has any requirement for Internet connectivity. Also, if you do need Internet connectivity you can have the wired (Ethernet) connection plugged into the Lan in your music room and use wifi to get access. I have done that on Windows and Linux and you should be able to do that with Mac also, just make sure that the network range on the two interface do not over lap.

 

My setup is bit different where the HQPlayer is connected to my home network and NAA is connected to that network via wifi. So far everything is working well for me.

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  • 3 weeks later...
shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

 

BTW, can anyone write a small script for Linux to make a small ramdisk at startup, load networaudiod and launch it from there. Thanks

 

I think this should do it. I would make a backup copy of the /etc/init.d/networkaudiod startup script and insert the lines at the top. The other thing that you will need to do is update the DAEMON environment variable from

 

DAEMON=/usr/sbin/$NAME

 

to

 

DAEMON=/mnt/ramdisk/$NAME

 

 

if [ ! -d /mnt/ramdisk ]
then
{
   mkdir /mnt/ramdisk
}
fi

/bin/mount -t tmpfs -o size=512M tmpfs /mnt/ramdisk
/bin/cp -p /usr/sbin/networkaudiod /mnt/ramdisk

 

The script checks if /mnt/ramdisk exists and if it does not exist it will create it and the next command will create and mount the 512M ramdisk while the last line will copy networkaudiod to ramdisk.

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

@LCM,

 

The other option that you have are some of the ultra small factor / mini computers from Lenovo (m53, m73, m93 tiny), Dell (3020, 7010, 9020 mini) and HP (600, 800 mini g1), HP Pavilion mini or Asus Vivomini with Windows 8 or 8.1.

 

The thing that I am not sure about is support for SD card on the Lenovo/Dell or HP g1 system. The Pavilion mini and Vivomini does have support for SD card. I am currently using the Lenovo M73.

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  • 3 weeks later...
shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted

@Superdad,

 

I am not an Linux expert but I listed the steps on how to get stripped down Ubuntu installed here earlier in the thread. If you need help let me know and maybe I can walk you through the setup over the phone. I am on the East coast so weekend might work best. Also, if your DAC is iDSD, Marantz or one of the other DAC that Miska has listed on his site you will need the kernel complied by Miska. My Lampizator DAC does not require the special kernel compiled so for now I am sticking with the low latency kernel straight from Ubuntu repository.

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shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted
Thanks for posting this as it looks like a better route than the Ubuntu server. Curious if Miska has any comments on one (Minimal) vs the other (Server).

 

Both minimal and base server install will get you the same setup. The only difference is that if you start out with minimal install CD you usually end up with all the updated packages from the get go, while server install you have to lot more of updated packages to install but at the end of the day it will get you the exact setup. The installation of either the low-latency kernel or Miska's custom kernel still needs to be done after the base OS install.

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  • 2 weeks later...
shadowlight

shadowlight

Posted
Posted
ETA for DSC2? Its either build this or I will start spending far too much money on overpriced output caps for my amp... :)

 

Would love to know the time frame also. Another question is will it work with Linux at higher resolution or should I be looking at windows.

 

TIA

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