HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[ted_b]

4est,

I posted elsewhere about how wonderful the Auraliti PK90USB was as an HQplayer NAA (default settings already onboard, etc). I will be selling mine, so if interested lemme know via PM.

[ted_b]

4est, Sorry to hear that...but frankly was only referring to the PK90USb as using it to be your NAA (as per this thread). It is preconfigured to be an NAA.

[ted_b]

Miska,

The NAA that my PK90USB provided was, of course, ethernet in, USB out. Since a goal of the possible hardware-based generic NAA is simplicity and uniformity (tech support would be minimal), what do you envision the digital output variations or options to be, if any? USB only? S/PDIF? Sorry if this was mentioned earlier..I read as much as I could but couldn't find it, but maybe it's obvious.

[ted_b]

Mani,

Very interesting. I ran the NAA while i had the Auraliti PK90USB in the system, and the differences were subtle at the time. I think maybe now I will revisit in the Win 8 world.

 

Questions (for you and/or Miska):

* does it make any sense to put a SOtM USB card in the NAA (i.e not in the source since that is only network-connected)?

* how are you (or would you envision) browsing a large library from your listening position in a main (i.e not headphone or desktop) system? It seemed (months ago) that Miska's software is not very GUI or remote friendly, compared to things like J River/jremote, etc.

[ted_b]

 

1. If Linux USB drivers exist for your (Meitner?) DAC, it may well be worth trying the SOtM USB card in the NAA. I know Miska has been working on this and am waiting to hear whether he's got Mytek Linux USB drivers working. If he has, I will try this myself.

 

Not sure I follow. Why would I want a Linux driver when I'm running both the CAPS and likely the NAA in Windows? BTW, the Linux NAA (Auraliti) worked fine with my Meitner. But anyway why Linux rather than Windows?

 

2. Sorry, no idea - I've never used HQPlayer Embedded, but I can imagine what you mean just from a library management point of view. I know this hasn't been one of Miska's top priorities, but maybe he should revisit it sometime.

 

With 850+ DSD albums ripped and tens of thousands of 24 bit and redbook tracks, there is NO way I am not going to have a convenient remote solution. And running a VNC on my iPAd and CAPS to see HQPlayer seems like robbing Peter (running VNC overhead) to pay Paul (NAA approach). Plus, even VNC'd desktop HQplayer seems very rudimentary...sorry. So, like your comparison ($10k dac vs $2k DAC and NAA) if I have to have a laptop on my lap at the listening position for an HQPlayer/NAA solution vs CAPS V2+ and J River/jremote i will take latter everyday. Of course, I haven't heard your sonic comparison, but I know what I will put up with.

[ted_b]

The CAPS is connected to the NAA via ethernet. You do not need to have any audio drivers installed in the CAPS unless you use a direct connection. In order to connect the NAA to the DAC, you will need to have the appropriate Linux firewire or USB driver installed in the NAA.

 

Mani.

 

Ah, so I misread the NAA specs. i thought Miska had a windows version. My bad. Of course if linux is the only version, then linux drivers. Meitner works.

[ted_b]

A 'Windows NAA' would kind of defeat the object of having an NAA - it's sole purpose is to isolate the DAC from the influence of the OS as much as possible, so an ultra-low footprint Linux is the only way to go.

 

Ted, when you said you ran an NAA while you had the Auraliti PK90USB in the system, how exactly did you have things set up? I mean, did you get a bootable USB stick from Miska and use this with the Auraliti to convert the Auraliti to an NAA? How did you then connect the DAC to the NAA? It must have been firewire, no?

 

Mani.

 

As per page one here (and below link) the Auraliti PK90USB comes pre-configured as a Signalyst NAA. Simply do not run the MPD server in it and it defaults to an NAA. Easy. USB of course. HQplayer was on my plain ole desktop (Windows vista, Dell Vostro general use) sitting in my home office.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/native-dsd-files-hqplayer-and-mytek-stereo192-dsd-10294/index4.html#post165564

[ted_b]

Back on page one I posted about using NAA on my Auraliti PK90USB. That was 2012.

 

I am now getting ready to go from a very musical one pc HQPlayer setup (i7 3770S convolving to either 384k or DSD256) to using my Caps Lagoon (Atom Dn2800MT) as an NAA. Back on early in NAA history folks were using VERY minimal setups, to the point of doing bootable USB sticks. Manishander wrote a nice comparison of single pc vs pc-to-NAA and was blown away. Again, that was to an NAA that was a skinny little Linux shell of a thing, running off a stick.

 

My current DN2800MT pc has WS2012 AO GUI, battery-powered SSD running the OS, Hynes linear powered main mobo input, a JRiver install (which will remain inactive), a couple of tools and a small Waterfox browser on it (Jplay too, but I'll kill that). Goal number one is to simply get NAA working (by swapping out the JCAT card on my i7 and putting it this box, then loading a DAC driver or two).

 

Goal number two is to listen to sound quality, then, if needed, swap out the SSD and go with a minimal Windows 10 install.

 

Question: is goal number two realistic, or is moving to an NAA with some small amount of meat on its bone a lateral move at best? Will my only real step up in sq to get Win 10 and then gut it (via lmitche's guide, etc)? Or is the truly real NAA benefit a tiny bootable Linux box (which is a no-go for me due to my DAC reviewing job...not enough DAC compatibility)?

[ted_b]

I have networkaudiod running on a Windows 10 PC.

 

The Windows 10 PC running networkaudiod is also running JPLAY 6 and Fidelizer Pro.

 

HQPlayer is outputting to the JPLAY driver running on the Windows 10 NAA PC (JPLAY driver set as Backend NAA Device).

 

It sounds very good.

 

The Windows 10 NAA PC has a Paul Pang USB card (v2) in it. Also, there's a Regen in the chain.

 

NAA also sounds very good on a Wandboard Quad (ARM HF device) running Arch Linux and with an upgraded (linear) power supply and something like an iFi iUSB power supply or Schiit Wyrd (good) or Regen (better).

 

I'm confused by your post. If Jplay is running on the "naa" Windows 10 machine then you aren't doing NAA you are doing standard Jplay dual pc setup. Right?

[ted_b]

Ahh, I see. Sorry for the confusion. So..what is the advantage of using the Jplay driver vs simply DAC driver (i.e do you think HQplayer sounds better through Jplay just as many of us did via JRIver)? I have Jplay installed on both my pcs too, but ran them the other direction (audiopc is now my HQPlayer brute math engine, NAA candidate is my DN2800T that was my JRIver front end).

[ted_b]

OK, so I got NAA working on my CAP Lagoon (DN2800MT). It's just a test so far, using the mobo USB (i.e I haven't swapped out the extra no-longer-needed PCIe NIC card for the Zuma's PCIe JCAT USB card yet). The Zuma (i7 3770S, 16GB RAM) is now my HQP server; it was the HQP single pc up until a few minutes ago.

 

First question: Currently I only have one set of FMCs to do fiber (the remainder is coming), and I've reported that replacing the copper with fiber, from my switch to the Zuma, was a great sq step! So now that the HQP duties are broken up into both the hearty Zuma (HQP) and the Lagoon (NAA) which one would benefit the most from going fiber if I had to choose one for now?

 

Second question: Will going NAA relieve the HQP server of any duties that might allow it to upsample to rates that previously caused hiccups (mostly due to work involved in convolving in DSD)?

[ted_b]

Edward, I don't have Zuma connected to Lagoon (like Jplay was done, except the other way around, with heavy lifting done by audiopc). I was under the impression that they each connect to the switch. That's how I have them. Are you saying the NAA is a private IP address and only connected to the HQP, and that the HQP needs 2 network interfaces? Then how does one control the NAA?

 

I have HQP beta 3.8 and pipeline is making some of my upsampling work worse, not better (Bogi reports same. With 3.7 I used pipeline SDM, yes.) I need to investigate that. I think I have hyperthreading off but both pcs are headless so its a pain to check (need to drag a monitor and keyboard out there). Hyperthreading doesn't really help HQP though (needs real cores, which I have 4).

 

Seems like the NAA ought to be core mode, huh? (regardless). I have it in GUI mode right now.

[ted_b]

Kind of a silly question but what the heck:

how important is it to have a lightweight NAA in terms of installed applications (assuming none of them are running; things like JRiver, Minimserver, BubbleServer, etc etc)? I ask cuz my NAA is my former controlpc in a dual Jplay setup, as well as a pc that did a lot of front end work in the past, so it has quite a bit installed....but again, I do not run any of it, nor does any of it load at startup (if that was ever the case it's been turned off by now). It currently has WS2012 AO (beta 1.31b) and NAA running. It has a few DAC drivers installed and is currently using the Chord ASIO one. It just today had the extra NIC card (PCIe) removed and the Zuma's JCAT USB card installed, and is 5V-powered externally. The NAA is powered by the 12V from an Uptone JS-2 linear ps.

 

Tonight I will give it it's first serious listen, then swap out the copper for the Zuma's fiber..so I can report back what I hope to find: that fiber to the NAA is first priority.

 

I'd rather not wipe the pc clean as this is still in the experiment stage. I will remove Bubble, Jplay and Minim cuz they are easy to reinstall worst case.

[ted_b]

If I had an NAA setup, I would strive to make it as bare-bones as possible, not only apps-wise (some may contain daemons running in the background), but also O.S.-wise: I'd even go in the O.S. and disable unnecessary services, and if I could hack the kernel, I'd do that too (Linux is good here).

 

If you are not familiar with Audiophile Optimizer (aka AO) that is precisely what it does (disables unnecessary services and registry items, among other things). I run the latest 1.31b beta. Thanks.

 

If I am trying to make this more bare bones and simpler then Linux is not a choice for my NAA. I have way too many DACs that have no good Linux driver solutions currently.

[ted_b]

If I had a good optimizer for MAC I called it OSXorcisms.

[ted_b]

I'm thinking Windows 10 may be a home run in this space.

 

Yeah, I have a new SSD to try this, maybe this weekend. OS, networkaudio, dac drivers, USB card driver, done.

[ted_b]

jram, thanks but my NAA issues were resolved earlier (I documented).

[ted_b]

Yes, the NAA issue is really a purist's conundrum right now. On one hand it should be lightweight and isolated, on the other hand to truly isolate and make the best connection to the DAC it potentially benefits from a fiber card and a good USB card...which means two PCIe slots, which means "lightweight" (in the case of mobos) is not really a solution (i.e a small prebuilt NUC or something doesn't have this expandability). In the meantime I am foregoing a fiber card on my NAA, using a JCAT USB card and an FMC into my mobo RJ45, and my noise floor is wonderfully quiet. So..as I said, this is more a theoretical conundrum, not necessarily a practical one.

[ted_b]

And the other option is using a USB regen with the motherboard USB rather than another USB PCI-e card. Have you tried the USB Regen, and do you find also using JCAT to improve upon that? People talk about using 2 regens... still an improvement with JCAT?

 

Jabbr, geniuses think alike! I sent Alex an email about that exact issue last week. What if a $175 Regen could provide enough isolation and reduce enough noise to make a simply mobo USB connection shine as if it were a 3rd party USB card (which start quite a bit above $175 and require a slot, etc). He said that John (Swenson) postutates that the Regen will benefit from anything in front of it, so the theory is that 3rd party cards make the Regen even more effective...however, that is simply postulation. No one has reported these a/b comparisons. I have asked Alex for a review sample but he's backlogged extensively; good news is I have a local buddy who is on the order list. I will most definitely do the a/b/c (JCAT alone, mobo with Regen, JCAT with Regen).

[ted_b]

Except now we have 3 outboard solutions: the USB Regen, the Schiit Wyrd, and the announced SOtM outboard version of their USB audio card. So no PCI/e slot needed, just a USB port.

You missed my point. Two of your "solutions" are only of value if indeed the Regen or Wyrd improve mobo USB to the point where we don't need JCAT or Paul Pang or SoTM (until new one). No one has said definitively that a mobo USB + Regen is as good as a JCAT/SotM/Pang without one.

[ted_b]

I have an SoTM Tx USB card in my CAPS server, and an Amber Regen. I'd be willing to compare the output of the SoTM against the mobo USB port tonight when I get home. I'll report back.

 

Colin

 

Great. Try all three combos (SoTM alone, mobo + Amber, SOtM+Amber). Thx

[ted_b]

Great stuff Colin. Do I read that the mobo+Regen is much more than 20% improvement over SOtM only, then another 20% when used with the SOtM?

[ted_b]

I have the Amber Regen and am not yet enamored by it via the JCAT card (actually first listen sounds like a loudness button, which I don't need, but need to break it in).....however, if it makes a mobo USB into the quality of a 3rd party USB card we may be on to something. I am going to test that this week.

[ted_b]

I use Sistrum stands exclusively, so vibration is a non issue with my stuff. It drains very well (coulumbs friction).

[ted_b]

Yeah, I have Paul's V1 card, as well as the SOtM card. Did a small comparison of them a year ago or more. The JCAT is slightly more refined, and has two ports, either of which can be powered (externally or internally) and/or filtered. Paul Pang OEM's for JCAT (cables, etc), except for this card, which was co-developed by Adnaco.

 

Nice idea about the Chinese "Diablo" switch.