HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[bodiebill]

HQPlayer used to work well with NAA on another pc (both Windows Server 2012 R2 in core mode). However after a few months of not having used this setup, I just tried and it no longer works. After starting networkaudiod.exe on the 'audio pc', HQPlayer on the 'control pc' can no longer find it. Both pc's are on the same wired network. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

[bodiebill]

Is anything showing up in the Network Name dialog under the tools menu from Hqplayer?

 

No, that dialog box is empty. Maybe I can try to set it up in GUI mode?

[bodiebill]

HQPlayer used to work well with NAA on another pc (both Windows Server 2012 R2 in core mode). However after a few months of not having used this setup, I just tried and it no longer works. After starting networkaudiod.exe on the 'audio pc', HQPlayer on the 'control pc' can no longer find it. Both pc's are on the same wired network. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

 

I just tried to reach NAA from another computer, this time from a mac on which HQPLayer is running. And that worked: HQPlayer does find NAA, and its IP address appears in the 'Network Audio Adapter Naming'. So I guessed the problem was with my HQPlayer version: beta 314b1.

 

When I installed the last stable version 3133, it worked fine again!

Is it a known problem that NAA does not work with the latest beta versions?

[bodiebill]

3.14b1 is old, current one is 3.14b5...

 

Thanks Miska. I did try 3.14b5 but for some reason it does not work in my system. When I launch the software it immediately disappears again.

[bodiebill]

What OS and CPU do you have?

 

Windows Server 2012 R2 core mode

CPU i74785T quad core 2.2 GHz

[bodiebill]

Win Server is not supported, probably in Core mode something is missing for a proper 3.14x installation. Try to restore to Minimal GUI mode and then try to re-install 3.14b5. Then, perhaps you can go back to Core mode.

 

hi bibo01, I did just that, and after going back to core mode it still worked with NAA. So now I can use the latest beta version. Thanks!

[bodiebill]

I have installed NAA on a minimal debian distribution, however NAA is not recognized by HQP. The error messages I get when I start the daemon:

 

networkaudiod] (22884): networkaudiod Copyright © 2011-2016 Jussi Laako / Signalyst. All rights reserved.

[networkaudiod] (22884): asoundlib version: 1.0.29

[networkaudiod] (22884): clSocket::Create(): socket(): Address family not supported by protocol

[networkaudiod] (22884): clSocket::Create(): socket(): Address family not supported by protocol

 

etc. etc. until I stop this with Ctrl-C; then it says:

 

^C[networkaudiod] (22884): ALSA backend uninitialized

 

Any clue what is the problem here?

[bodiebill]

You don't have IPv6 support enabled for your network interface. Do for example following before starting networkaudiod:

export NETWORKAUDIOD_IPV6=0

 

This disables IPv6 dual-stack support in networkaudiod and falls back to IPv4-only.

 

Thanks, Miska. Indeed no more error messages when I restart networkaudiod, and HQP discovers the IP address of the NAA PC.

However, HQP does not see my DAC (Combo384 Amanero), even though other players (LMS, JR MC22) do recognize it.

I will try again tomorrow. Suggestions welcome.

[bodiebill]

Does "aplay -l" show it on the list? Also make sure other processes are not keeping the device busy (LMS, JRMC or others).

 

I closed all other players and rebooted the NAA machine.

 

"aplay -l" shows "no soundcards found".

 

However, the OS system page shows PCH as card 0 and the Amanero as card 1/usb device 0. Also, "cat \proc\asound\cards" does show the Amanero.

[bodiebill]

If "aplay -l" doesn't show the card, you have problem with ALSA or someone is keeping the device busy. When "aplay -l" begins to show it, it should also start appearing through networkaudiod.

 

This sounds like you have a GUI in your NAA machine. You shouldn't have any GUI, only text console. If you have a GUI, you also likely have "pulseaudio" installed and running and that is a big steaming pile of **** similar to CoreAudio and Windows mixer/rate converter audio engines. You need to make sure pulseaudio doesn't mess with the device, at least by modifying it's configuration or preferably removing it from the system altogether.

 

Today I made a fresh start and it worked: HQP now connects to NAA (after applying the IP6 tweak) and recognizes the DAC. Thanks, Miska!

 

My NAA machine runs on snake oil – and no I am not joking:

 

Snakeoil OS - Linux OS For The Audiophile

 

It is a very minimal ubuntu distribution. I think I like it, and have asked the developer to react to your comment on pulseaudio.

[bodiebill]

Hello bodiebill

I'm using snake oil too, and HQPlayer can't see my NAA, what is the IP& tweak you mention??

 

Hi juliocat, see Miska's post #1972 in this thread. The Snakeoil developer will solve this in his next release.

[bodiebill]

This sounds like you have a GUI in your NAA machine. You shouldn't have any GUI, only text console. If you have a GUI, you also likely have "pulseaudio" installed and running and that is a big steaming pile of **** similar to CoreAudio and Windows mixer/rate converter audio engines. You need to make sure pulseaudio doesn't mess with the device, at least by modifying it's configuration or preferably removing it from the system altogether.

 

Reply from Snakeoil developer:

 

Snakeoil by default runs only in console mode. There is only one console (tty1) and you can even disable that in the Snakeoil tab.

The only exception is when one needs to run a GUI music player (e.g. JRiver), where a virtual desktop is used.

 

PCH could well be the on board sound card on your motherboard. You should be able to disable Intel HD audio or Azalia codec (PCH may call this something else now though) in your system's BIOS and. Once disabled this audio and that audio card will not show up in the list.

 

Pulseaudio is not included in the Snakeoil distro for precisely the reasons Laako stated. By default most players will access the audio using direct hardware access (i.e. something like hw:0,0). Of course expert users can always tweak the OS to route the audio via something else.

[bodiebill]

HQP discovers my NAA without a problem: the IP address of the NAA machine shows up and I can select NAA in the settings. Both HQP and NAA are on Windows PC's.

 

However, the only option to choose from is JPLAY. MY Combo384 Amanero DAC which is active on the NAA PC is not recognized by HQP.

 

When I connect my DAC directly to the HQP PC, there is no problem: it is recognized.

And when startup my NAA machine with Linux (Ubuntu) instead of Windows, the DAC is recognized also.

 

Any idea why HQP refuses to see my DAC when it is on the Windows NAA PC?

[bodiebill]

BTW, can you select JPLAY in HQP, then in JPLAY select your DAC?

 

Thanks, yes I can.

 

And when I uninstall JPLAY on the NAA PC, the DAC is still not recognized: nothing to choose from.

 

This is the NAA log:

 

[C:\Program Files\NAAx64\networkaudiod.exe] (2044): networkaudiod Copyright © 2011-2016 Jus

ights reserved.

[C:\Program Files\NAAx64\networkaudiod.exe] (2044): ASIO Technology by Steinberg Media Techno

[C:\Program Files\NAAx64\networkaudiod.exe] (2044): discovery from [::ffff:192.168.1.201]:516

[C:\Program Files\NAAx64\networkaudiod.exe] (2044): connection from [::ffff:192.168.1.201]:55

[C:\Program Files\NAAx64\networkaudiod.exe] (2044): protocol error: clASIOMiniEngine:: DeviceLookup(): lDrivs < 0

[C:\Program Files\NAAx64\networkaudiod.exe] (2044): begin disconnection

[C:\Program Files\NAAx64\networkaudiod.exe] (2044): disconnected [::ffff:192.168.1.201]:55704

[bodiebill]

You need to make sure you have Amanero ASIO driver installed, and that other applications are not running and keeping the device reserved.

 

Thanks Miska (also for your patience): I un- and re-installed the Amanero drivers on the NAA PC and they are now visible in HQP!

[bodiebill]

GREAT! So how does it sound, especially compared to JPLAY?

 

I used to have a 2 PC JPLAY setup as well but preferred HQP + NAA.

 

First impression:

- HQP DSD256 + NAA more analytically detailed, wide and open, slightly more fatiguing

- HQP DSD128 + JPLAY a little warmer, 'together', easier on the ear (I guess they call that 'analogue')

It is a close call and I will experiment with different HQP settings before making a final verdict. Or maybe I will switch depending on the material.

[bodiebill]

Thank you for the reply. Or you can try HQP >> NAA >> JPLAY? I remember reading another member did this for a while. Could be overkill.

 

What filters are you using? I use polysinc mp and asdm7 modulator. To my ears, DSD modulators is very detailed and dynamics but fatiguing.

 

Thanks tboooe! I used poly-sinc, DSD7 with DoP / 5644800 for JPLAY and none / 12288000 for NAA.

 

I will try ASDM7 and other settings when I return home. And then also compare these dual PC setups:

(1) HQP DSD256 => NAA => DAC

(2) HQP DSD128 => NAA => JPLAY (non-hibernate) => DAC

(3) HQP DSD128 => JPLAY => JPLAY (hibernate) => DAC

 

Actually setup (2) seems theoretically sound as the diskless NAA PC is galvanically isolated from the control PC, so I expect the benefit of JPLAY to be greater on the NAA PC than on the control PC. In that respect, you could say that setup (3) is overkill. However, hibernation is nice to have. But I will let my ears decide.

 

Will be continued...

[bodiebill]

bodiebill, what settings are you using with JPLAY when you feed it from HQP? I found also that some DSD upsample settings in HQP with a NAA sound more analytical and less analog then another setup I use for DSD upsample using Audirvana+. So I am sure I have not found the best tuning yet!

Thanks!

 

hi jroyer, do you mean JPLAY settings or HQP settings?

JPLAY is now on 10Hz, 10s. I just did some further comparisons and I now prefer HQP setting poly-sinc and ASDM7. The latter to my ear is indeed more relaxed/analogue sounding than the DSD filters.

 

Or you can try HQP >> NAA >> JPLAY? I remember reading another member did this for a while. Could be overkill.

I compared the following setups with these HQP settings, in reversed order of preference:

(1) HQP DSD256 => NAA => DAC: open and detailed, highs slightly fatiguing

(2) HQP DSD128 => NAA => JPLAY (non-hibernate) => DAC: warmer, more analogue

(3) HQP DSD128 => JPLAY => JPLAY (hibernate) => DAC: very similar to (2), maybe a tad more relaxed (due to hibernation?)

 

So for now I will stick with (3).

As I understand it, JPLAY on the control PC is just a way to communicate with the audio/NAA PC, and in this respect is similar to using HQP and NAA. The JPLAY settings are only applied to the audio PC. So I am not surprised that (2) and (3) are hard to distinguish. And the minor difference I think I hear, I attribute to hibernation (which in my case is not possible with (2)).

 

What filters are you using? I use polysinc mp and asdm7 modulator. To my ears, DSD modulators is very detailed and dynamics but fatiguing.

 

Confirmed, see above.

[bodiebill]

Following up my previous post, I realized that I am able to use HQP 3.14 with NAA (it just does not work with JPLAY), so I installed it again, on my Windows control PC as well as on a normal ethernet-attached iMac. I was pleased with the result: still open and detailed, but the fatigue is gone!

 

Updated list, again in reversed order of preference (4 sounds best to my ears, although difference between 3 and 4 may just be a matter of taste):

(1) HQP 3133 Windows DSD256 => NAA => DAC: open and detailed, highs slightly fatiguing

(2) HQP 3133 Windows DSD128 => NAA => JPLAY (non-hibernate) => DAC: warmer, more analogue

(3a) HQP 3.14 Windows DSD256 => NAA => DAC: open and detailed

(3b) HQP 3.14 Windows DSD128 => NAA => DAC: open and detailed, hard to distinguish from previous

(4a) HQP 3133 Windows DSD128 => JPLAY => JPLAY (hibernate) => DAC: very similar to (2), maybe a tad more relaxed (due to hibernation?)

(4b) HQP 3.14 iMac DSD128 => NAA => DAC: open and detailed, warmer than same setup with Windows

Apparently the iMac is not powerful enough to do DSD256: it stutters.

What I find interesting is that my unoptimized iMac (no treatments, no LPS etc,) scores higher as control PC than my highly optimized Windows PC. This seems to show that in the HQP + NAA setup the important thing is to optimize the NAA box.

[bodiebill]

Has anyone been successful running NAA (networkaudiod.exe) under Windows Server 2019 in core mode?

When I try to run it I get missing dll error messages, even after installing Microsoft Visual C++ (vc_redist.x64). 

[bodiebill]

2 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Has anyone been successful running NAA (networkaudiod.exe) under Windows Server 2019 in core mode?

When I try to run it I get missing dll error messages, even after installing Microsoft Visual C++ (vc_redist.x64). 

 

Solved by copying qwave.dll to Windows\System32 and \Windows\SystemWOW64 folders.

[bodiebill]

14 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That still doesn't make it work correctly.

 

Your system is missing QoS component, you can install and enable that properly too. On desktop Windows versions, it is installed and enabled by default. On server versions it seems like you need to explicitly install that OS component.

 

 

Ok, thanks. I was already able to play music with HQP+NAA but will try to also install the Quality of Service future in core mode.

[bodiebill]

to install Quality of Service in core mode, from command line start powershell and enter:

Install-WindowsFeature DiskIo-QoS

[bodiebill]

27 minutes ago, tboooe said:

So I think in Server enabling qwave feature also enables QoS packet scheduler.  I just checked my network adapter settings and the packet scheduler was enabled for all of my NICs even though I do not remember actually doing it myself.

 

Install-WindowsFeature -name qWave

 

Thanks for correcting me. Indeed it seems that qWave enables QoS for AV streams:

Quality Windows Audio Video Experience (qWave) is a networking platform for audio video (AV) streaming applications on IP home networks. qWave enhances AV streaming performance and reliability by ensuring network quality-of-service (QoS) for AV applications.

Sounds like what Miska was pointing at?

[bodiebill]

After applying

Get-NetAdapterQos -Name "*" | Enable-NetAdapterQos

Install-WindowsFeature -name qWave

I still see "Network QoS functionality not available" in NAA. Any idea?