JRiver tips and techniques: user experiences repository

[firedog]

I'm looking for feedback from other JRiver users who have tried the Volume Leveling and Adaptive Volume options in DSP Studio. When you use it are you using it during "straight" album playback or playback from playlists/Smartlists either with shuffle on or off? what are your experiences and opinions of this tool?

 

Tried it for mixed playlists - so I wouldn't need to adjust the volume constantly. Didn't like it. First, I still needed to adjust volume, just not quite as much. Second, I felt there was a slight degradation in SQ. But I didn't really try to pin it down, so that could have been imagined.

[mwheelerk]

Tried it for mixed playlists - so I wouldn't need to adjust the volume constantly. Didn't like it. First, I still needed to adjust volume, just not quite as much. Second, I felt there was a slight degradation in SQ. But I didn't really try to pin it down, so that could have been imagined.

There is a convenience to it when a playlist is mixed with various songs and/or albums and if shuffle mode is used. I haven't had to adjust volume. Without it the differences in loudness (dynamic range) is very apparent. I don't think you imagined anything. If you turn it off, don't use it after having used it for awhile I think you notice that there had been some life, some air, some subtle detail lost when using. That is one reason I asked to see if others may be experiencing this loss.

[Skeptic]

Tried it for mixed playlists - so I wouldn't need to adjust the volume constantly. Didn't like it. First, I still needed to adjust volume, just not quite as much. Second, I felt there was a slight degradation in SQ. But I didn't really try to pin it down, so that could have been imagined.

You need to use Volume Leveling on its own for it to have the intended effect.

Adaptive Volume is more about getting higher volume levels out of your device and works against Volume Leveling.

 

When Adaptive Volume in the peak level mode is combined with Volume Leveling in a fixed playlist, it should still perform good leveling within that playlist.

But the playlist itself will be at a different level from any other playlist due to the peak level adjustment from Adaptive Volume.

 

With Volume Leveling enabled on its own, all playlists should play at an even level - or as close as it is possible to get with our current techniques for determining the "volume level" of a track.

The R128 standard JRiver uses is the best there currently is, and I find that it generally does a very good job.

 

 

If you normally disable all processing in JRiver (including volume control) and have a "bit-perfect" output, then it is possible that the output with Volume Leveling enabled is slightly degraded.

JRiver are using insufficient dither to eliminate all distortion once it starts doing any processing to the signal. (RPDF rather than TPDF)

 

However that is normally only going to be an issue with 16-bit outputs, or significant volume reductions in 24-bit. (far greater than Volume Leveling would apply)

While I wish they would fix it, you can work around this by disabling their dither and using a VST plug-in to dither instead.

[mwheelerk]

You need to use Volume Leveling on its own for it to have the intended effect.

Adaptive Volume is more about getting higher volume levels out of your device and works against Volume Leveling.

 

When Adaptive Volume in the peak level mode is combined with Volume Leveling in a fixed playlist, it should still perform good leveling within that playlist.

But the playlist itself will be at a different level from any other playlist due to the peak level adjustment from Adaptive Volume.

 

With Volume Leveling enabled on its own, all playlists should play at an even level - or as close as it is possible to get with our current techniques for determining the "volume level" of a track.

The R128 standard JRiver uses is the best there currently is, and I find that it generally does a very good job.

 

 

If you normally disable all processing in JRiver (including volume control) and have a "bit-perfect" output, then it is possible that the output with Volume Leveling enabled is slightly degraded.

JRiver are using insufficient dither to eliminate all distortion once it starts doing any processing to the signal. (RPDF rather than TPDF)

 

However that is normally only going to be an issue with 16-bit outputs, or significant volume reductions in 24-bit. (far greater than Volume Leveling would apply)

While I wish they would fix it, you can work around this by disabling their dither and using a VST plug-in to dither instead.

In the DSP studio under Adaptive Volume and Peak Level Normalize it does say "Works intelligently with Volume Leveling".

[Skeptic]

In the DSP studio under Adaptive Volume and Peak Level Normalize it does say "Works intelligently with Volume Leveling".

Yes, when both are enabled Volume Leveling does its work to bring everything to an average loudness of -23 LUFS.

Then Adaptive Volume (in the peak level mode only) will push up the gain on all tracks by an equal amount, as high as it can, until the loudest track in that playlist is at -1.0 LUFS. (any louder could potentially clip)

 

This means that any tracks within the playlist should be at the same (or similar) loudness - though album dynamics will be preserved if you are playing sequential tracks from an album.

 

Any changes made to the playlist, or playing two completely different playlists will likely result in quite different volume levels, since the peak level of the playlist will vary depending on the tracks that are in it.

 

Removing Adaptive Volume eliminates this variance, and tracks (or albums) are all leveled to the target of -23 LUFS; a target which should provide enough headroom to allow most if not all tracks in a person's library to be fully leveled. (JRiver will never clip - if a track has so much dynamic range that it will not fit in this target, it will play quieter)

 

 

EDIT: It should also be mentioned that tracks must have been run through the Analyzer for Volume Leveling to work at all.

I recommend enabling it in the auto-import settings so that it runs automatically on newly imported tracks.

[mwheelerk]

Yes, when both are enabled Volume Leveling does its work to bring everything to an average loudness of -23 LUFS.

Then Adaptive Volume (in the peak level mode only) will push up the gain on all tracks by an equal amount, as high as it can, until the loudest track in that playlist is at -1.0 LUFS. (any louder could potentially clip)

 

This means that any tracks within the playlist should be at the same (or similar) loudness - though album dynamics will be preserved if you are playing sequential tracks from an album.

 

Any changes made to the playlist, or playing two completely different playlists will likely result in quite different volume levels, since the peak level of the playlist will vary depending on the tracks that are in it.

 

Removing Adaptive Volume eliminates this variance, and tracks (or albums) are all leveled to the target of -23 LUFS; a target which should provide enough headroom to allow most if not all tracks in a person's library to be fully leveled. (JRiver will never clip - if a track has so much dynamic range that it will not fit in this target, it will play quieter)

 

 

EDIT: It should also be mentioned that tracks must have been run through the Analyzer for Volume Leveling to work at all.

I recommend enabling it in the auto-import settings so that it runs automatically on newly imported tracks.

Thanks for the explanation so I can further understand this. I do have the Audio Analysis turned on for Auto Import.

[ksalno]

Any suggestions for setting up the TIDAL desktop app to stream through JRiver so I can use Volume Leveling on my TIDAL playlists? I tried setting TIDAL to stream to both JRiver and another audio output and then used Open Live in Jriver with Volume Leveling but it sounds really bad, lots of noise and dropouts. TIDAL plays find directly to my DAC via USB output, so there is something in the interaction between TIDAL and JRiver that is hosing things up. I would love to use VL on my TIDAL playlists because their volume levels are all over the place.

[Skeptic]

Any suggestions for setting up the TIDAL desktop app to stream through JRiver so I can use Volume Leveling on my TIDAL playlists? I tried setting TIDAL to stream to both JRiver and another audio output and then used Open Live in Jriver with Volume Leveling but it sounds really bad, lots of noise and dropouts. TIDAL plays find directly to my DAC via USB output, so there is something in the interaction between TIDAL and JRiver that is hosing things up. I would love to use VL on my TIDAL playlists because their volume levels are all over the place.

It won't work. JRiver needs to have analyzed the files for Volume Leveling to operate.

Since all it receives is an audio stream from the TIDAL app/website, there is nothing it can do to level playback.

 

Adaptive Volume might help a little if you can get it working (I'm not sure why you're getting those dropouts - try increasing the buffer size/duration) but Volume Leveling is a CPU-intensive process and it needs to have analyzed the full track before it can determine what the average loudness of it is.

[dr.mike]

About JRiver volume control: is there any way to get a linear curve for the slider?

 

Currently it feels that volume up in the low percentages increases only slowly while getting closer to 100 the increases get much stronger. The other way round, sensitivity for going down from 100 is very high, perceived half volume already at 75-80ish.

[rdsu]

Hi,

 

In JRemote, how do I sort the artists albums by year ascending?

 

Thanks

[ted_b]

Hi,

 

In JRemote, how do I sort the artists albums by year ascending?

 

Thanks

 

Assuming your year or date data is good, go to the Webgizmo/Jremote setup in Media/Network and edit the sort order of Albums in the Artist view (see my screenpic)

 

 

BTW, as per my video tutorials, this is also where you import any custom views (you might have built in JRiver) into Jremote.

[Matt Ashland]

About JRiver volume control: is there any way to get a linear curve for the slider?

 

Currently it feels that volume up in the low percentages increases only slowly while getting closer to 100 the increases get much stronger. The other way round, sensitivity for going down from 100 is very high, perceived half volume already at 75-80ish.

 

The volume slider in internal mode is based on decibels. Each 10% is 5 decibels.

 

In other modes, it'll be up to the audio driver of your device to decide.

[rdsu]

Assuming your year or date data is good, go to the Webgizmo/Jremote setup in Media/Network and edit the sort order of Albums in the Artist view (see my screenpic)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16951[/ATTACH]

 

BTW, as per my video tutorials, this is also where you import any custom views (you might have built in JRiver) into Jremote.

 

ted_b,

 

I already did that, using "Year - Album", but JRemote didn't changed...

 

Do I need to change something at JRemote?

 

Thanks

[ted_b]

You need to restart JRiver, then restart JRemote (i.e swipe the app closed on ipad, then restart after JRIver).

 

Have you looked at your Year-Album data? Those albums missing a year will simply have Album name (which will be sorted alpha). Also, I've noticed that even in JRIver if I change the sort order of the display (thumbnails) the thumbnails don't change but the list below them do (album and tracks). So when you look in JRemote chose list icon instead of thumbnail (i.e box/grid icon) and tell me what you see.

[Jim Sylva]

Jim,

I would post that on JRiver interact. It would take too long here for you to educate me (maybe not others), describe and define siblings, ancestors, give examples, etc. A screenshot would help, but I'm sure the JRIver guys will know what you mean easier.

Thanks, Ted. I will give JRiver Interact a try.

[Jim Sylva]

Deleted: Posted twice by mistake.

[rdsu]

You need to restart JRiver, then restart JRemote (i.e swipe the app closed on ipad, then restart after JRIver).

 

Have you looked at your Year-Album data? Those albums missing a year will simply have Album name (which will be sorted alpha). Also, I've noticed that even in JRIver if I change the sort order of the display (thumbnails) the thumbnails don't change but the list below them do (album and tracks). So when you look in JRemote chose list icon instead of thumbnail (i.e box/grid icon) and tell me what you see.

After reboot both JRiver and JRemote worked well!

 

Thanks a lot!!!

[rodrigaj]

For JRiver MC20 Mac users who also use KeyCue:

 

Disable KeyCue when using JRiver otherwise you will get annoying help and edit popups. See my original post #535 on this topic.

[BacHolz]

I have been using JRiver for a few years and have finally been motivated to design several custom views. Doing so has greatly facilitated the ease with which I manage my library presently approaching some 3,000 titles. I can now approach this diverse collection of music in new ways that have renewed my listening experience and enjoyment. Thanks to all those who share their experience here and encourage others to explore the rich possibilities of this resource.

To my question - none of these views are especially difficult to create but a few of them are time consuming to replicate. Can I use the library backup on the primary PC and import the settings to my second PC? Or is there another way to transfer these new views to my other platform?

Both are synced and share identical content. I thought I had done something similar once but my efforts at present have not been successful. I am using JRMC 20 on Window 7 devices.

[ted_b]

I have been using JRiver for a few years and have finally been motivated to design several custom views. Doing so has greatly facilitated the ease with which I manage my library presently approaching some 3,000 titles. I can now approach this diverse collection of music in new ways that have renewed my listening experience and enjoyment. Thanks to all those who share their experience here and encourage others to explore the rich possibilities of this resource.

To my question - none of these views are especially difficult to create but a few of them are time consuming to replicate. Can I use the library backup on the primary PC and import the settings to my second PC? Or is there another way to transfer these new views to my other platform?

Both are synced and share identical content. I thought I had done something similar once but my efforts at present have not been successful. I am using JRMC 20 on Window 7 devices.

Yes, the small library backup file (this only backs up library settings, playlists, custom views, etc not the actual music files) is exactly how you want to copy it to your next pc, especially if the pointers are to the same NAS-based music files.

 

I'm glad you are finding the power of custom views. You probably already know that those views can be imported into JRemote, too.

[Jabs1542]

I have been using JRiver for a few years and have finally been motivated to design several custom views. Doing so has greatly facilitated the ease with which I manage my library presently approaching some 3,000 titles. I can now approach this diverse collection of music in new ways that have renewed my listening experience and enjoyment. Thanks to all those who share their experience here and encourage others to explore the rich possibilities of this resource.

To my question - none of these views are especially difficult to create but a few of them are time consuming to replicate. Can I use the library backup on the primary PC and import the settings to my second PC? Or is there another way to transfer these new views to my other platform?

Both are synced and share identical content. I thought I had done something similar once but my efforts at present have not been successful. I am using JRMC 20 on Window 7 devices.

 

Here's another option. If your main music server is on 24x7 then have the other PC connect to the remote database located on the main PC. That gives me a full fledged JRiver on an alternate PC using all of my music that is managed one time in one place, plus access to all the custom views I created (again, thanks Ted for the video and instructions). This works way better than Gizmo and doesn't require me to copy databases and settings all over the place - which is one more thing to manage.

[BacHolz]

Thank you both for the prompt responses. First to ted_b, thanks for the videos which I should revisit but doing as you suggest didn't do the trick. Assuming you mean to call up the backup feature through File, Library, Backup - then use the created file to "restore" the library on my second PC. Doing so doesn't seem to work regardless of whether I check the two restore options or not. Puzzled as I thought that I had done this with success previously. Any thought as to where I am failing?

To the second point raised by Jabs1542 concerning synchronizing with a central server. I do have a Synology DS212J (2 bay, 6 TB) NAS. I do all of my media management on my desktop and synch content using Syncovery to both the NAS and my HTPC from which I play music.

I appreciate many of the benefits of a media server but all of this gear is in one medium size room and I am the only user at any one time. Given this, it seemed to me that the short and simple SATA interface to multiple drives in my HTPC was the best way to access my files for playback.

While I can appreciate the potential benefits of a server setup for those with other arrangements, would it also be a superior alternative to my present practice?

I welcome and appreciate your feedback...

[BacHolz]

I just tried it again using the "File, Library, Backup > Restore" method and it worked when I used the default choices, didn't check the two restore options and then reconfigured the import locations as one of the drive letters was different. All is well and new custom views are present and working flawlessly. However I would like some feedback on a point I raised. To quote the query posed above.

 

"To the second point raised by Jabs1542 concerning synchronizing with a central server. I do have a Synology DS212J (2 bay, 6 TB) NAS. I do all of my media management on my desktop and synch content using Syncovery to both the NAS and my HTPC from which I play music.

I appreciate many of the benefits of a media server but all of this gear is in one medium size room and I am the only user at any one time. Given this, it seemed to me that the short and simple SATA interface to multiple drives in my HTPC was the best way to access my files for playback.

While I can appreciate the potential benefits of a server setup for those with other arrangements, would it also be a superior alternative to my present practice?"

 

Thanks to all for the information and inspiration.

[Jabs1542]

I dropped the NAS a while back (need to update my signature), the NAS was located in my listening room and was too loud (though it was fanless) and a bit weak when it came to DSD files (I had a lot of trouble getting tags to write to the files, it would hang up). I went to a dual external enclosure intending to go SATA but discovered that USB 3 worked fine. My NAS problems were clearly a matter of a weak machine (which was intentional in order to make it quiet).

 

I leave my main JRiver music server (CAPS v4) on 24x7 and have two other computers in the house running JRiver with thier databases pointing back to the main server (the two other computers have no JRiver database, other than the empty default database). I'm constantly exploring new music, or catching up on things I never had, and seem to be adding files almost weekly. So not having to constantly create backup database files and transfer them to the other machines is a big deal for me.

[BacHolz]

I dropped the NAS a while back (need to update my signature), the NAS was located in my listening room and was too loud (though it was fanless) and a bit weak when it came to DSD files (I had a lot of trouble getting tags to write to the files, it would hang up). I went to a dual external enclosure intending to go SATA but discovered that USB 3 worked fine. My NAS problems were clearly a matter of a weak machine (which was intentional in order to make it quiet).

 

I leave my main JRiver music server (CAPS v4) on 24x7 and have two other computers in the house running JRiver with thier databases pointing back to the main server (the two other computers have no JRiver database, other than the empty default database). I'm constantly exploring new music, or catching up on things I never had, and seem to be adding files almost weekly. So not having to constantly create backup database files and transfer them to the other machines is a big deal for me.

 

I thought of building a C.A.P.S. level build but am reasonably pleased with my present HTPC. I'm not sure that my modest system (Music Fidelity Vlink 192 > Schiit Bifrost Uber > Marantz SR 6005 / Marantz UD5005 > Aperion Intimus 6Bs LR - 5B Center - 4 4DPs & Bravus 12D) would be revealing enough to warrant the investment in a C.A.P.S. build.

However, I do like the notion of having the libraries share the same database which could be centrally located on my NAS. Keeping the libraries' content synched with Syncovery is a simple matter but sharing a central database between devices sounds worthy of a try.

Any tips on setting this up? It seems like it is relatively straight forward.

Any thoughts on unwanted and unintended consequences?