JRiver tips and techniques: user experiences repository

[Jabs1542]

Power Question - How do you leave your JRMC server powered? On all the time? Or do you turn it off each evening?

 

CAPS owners - does your CAPS server remain on 24 hours a day? Does it get hot?

 

i thought this might count as a tip if there were good reasons for one way or the other. Thanks

[Jabs1542]

Thanks to all, powered up it is. I have a new Zuma Mini on its way (shipped yesterday) and was concerned about heat and the advantages/disadvantages of the power state. I like the Media Center background job concept as well.

 

BTW - The support in these forums is what drove me towards JRMC and CAPS. This is a great community!

[Jabs1542]

Maybe there is a hardware element to this. My CAPS is a Micro Zuma with an I7 and 16GB of RAM. I can monitor my Ethernet connection and watch a burst of network traffic at the beginning of each song, otherwise the network is dead (using a NAS). The playback is very good and the CPU usage is rarely above 1%. Memory playback seems to work well for me.

[Jabs1542]

I think you are missing Matt's point, JRMC is more than just a player for 6ch DSD. I'm not fond of the incorporation of videos and pictures but if that's what JRMC needs to do in order to "feed the business" then I'm all for it. I would rather them stay in business and mature the product than have it go stale due to stagnation.

 

I tried your test with a large single DSD 2ch track (sorry but I don't have any multichannel files). It was from Mahler and the file was 1.4GB. I watched my network activity as I started the track, I could see it load data, and then after about 10 seconds I disconnected my NAS from the network. JRMC played the entire track without a hickup - though Windows popped up a dialog box reminding me that the attached drive was no longer available.

 

Perhaps your problem only exists if; a) you have a VERY large file (like a 6ch DSD), and b) you have a moderate PC with a moderate amount of RAM. Now let's look at JRMC's total audience and see what percentage this restraint falls into - probably a pretty small number.

 

I guess what I've learned from this is that if I want to go down the multichannel DSD path then I should have a pretty beafy PC, possibly 32GB of RAM, or maybe even 64GB.

[Jabs1542]

Re-running the test right now in real time (Mahler No. 6, last track, 1.2GB, 29 minutes). I am monitoring the Ethernet port (which I have now disconnected after 30 seconds into the track, it pretty much went dead right after the initial load when the track started) and Disk 0 (my internal SSD).

 

I do see a little bit of disk activity but it's actually writing more than it is reading, I suspect that Windows is doing some house cleaning. Note, I am NOT running any Windows optimizers, this is raw 8.1 with 16GB of RAM. This is pretty cool because I am managing JRMC through JRemote on an iPad mini, typing this on an iPad 2, while the 60" display is covered with different system monitors from Task Manager.

 

When the track first starts I get a burst of network activity, some disk activity (though most of it is read), and my CPU usage goes up from 12% to about 21%. A lot of teeny tiny disk hits (24KB/s for 1ms, a big hit is 53KB/s for 2.1ms), and most of the activity is write. Just got a pretty big read at the 4 minute mark (maybe a MB of traffic). 8 minutes into it, the SSD is pretty much flat, mostly 0% with an occasional small hump to 5%. For clarity, I am assuming Write is writing to the disk (since I am monitoring the disk) and read is reading from the disk. The Disk Transfer Rate scale is at 100 KB/s and the little pops I see are at the 20-ish % Mark, the Active Time scale (measured in percent) is basically flat at 0% with occasional ripples that might get up to 5%. 11 minutes in and I got another ~1MB pop (read). 18 minutes and no real disk activity, metrics read; CPU 2%, Memory 20%, Disk 0%. Got another ~1MB pop at 19 minutes (read). And that's all she wrote.

 

For kicks I selected the first track to play next. Interesting, I saw the expected Ethernet activity as it pulled the file off the NAS, but I saw no difference in the SSD's activity. Memory stayed at 20%, pressed Stop and memory dropped to 14%.

 

Overall I would say that JRMC did NOT have this 1.2GB cached to disk, nor any reasonable portion of the file. I am running JRMC in Memory Mode and I have way more memory than 1.2GB. It seems to me, on my setup, that JRMC is faithfully running Memory Mode as advertised.

 

Edit: I actually ran this 1 1/2 time -yawn. The first time at about the half way mark I accidentally hit the play button in JRemote and everything froze because the NAS was unplugged. I plugged it back, and had to reboot it, and left it in for the rerun of the test. So the NAS was plugged in with verified no activity.

[Jabs1542]

Is this an uncompressed WAV/AIFF track? The maximum size is supposed to be 1GB but perhaps there is a 20% allowance for particularly big tracks.

If it's not an uncompressed track, then it cannot fit inside the memory buffer and has to be be loading in from somewhere.

 

Process Explorer will let you monitor the JRiver process specifically, rather than looking at generalized process usage in Task Manager.

 

 

Sorry, I failed to mention that it was DSD file - can a 29 minute 2 channel WAV or AIFF get to up to 1.2GB in size?

 

I will check out the Process Explorer tool (it looks pretty cool, sort of what Task Manager should have done all along) and post back what it says but I have to say that I believe this entire file was cached and played strictly in memory. I should probably expose the fact that I am an IT professional, we do networking and software development though I am mostly a developer type - and I have been involved with writing OS's for real time systems - so I am not totally uneducated with this stuff (ha, coming from the guy that didn't know about Project Explorer

[Jabs1542]

Funny, we can pontificate, assume, and imply all day long but Matt and the guys at JRiver are the only ones that really know what's going on. Our being in the IT business simply implies that we understand requirements and the compromises that have to be made in order to hit 95% of your user enhancement requests.

 

I don't work at JRiver but if I were to guess I would think their business is something like, "We mastered audio and are keeping the audiophiles pleased while capturing the main stream, how do we incorporate that next new technology without screwing up this beautiful framework". The point I was trying to get Skeptic to understand (yes - shame on me for poking a bear with a stick) was that his user needs are probably in the less than 1% zone of overall enhancements under consideration.

 

BTW - You clearly poked too hard or managed to find a sensitive spot, in some circles you would have gotten a Bravo Zulu

[Jabs1542]

Ted - sorry for throwing fuel on the fire

 

To get us back on track I have discovered a JRMC issue and a solution - I am running JRMC v19 on Windows 8.1.

 

Problem: When I import certain DSDs and refine the tagging in the DSF files JRiver will hang up when writing the tags. This hang up will last about 1 minute per track and then I get a dialog box telling me that the files cannot be accessed. However the track data is there in JRiver, the files play fine and everything seems ok. So I chalk it up as a glitch and move on.

 

Discovery: Later on I learned about HQPlayer and give it a whirl (and love it), however I was having problems with my library as it appeared in HQP. What I discovered was that the tags in JRMC, for about 25% of my library, had not been persisted to the files themselves. This was particularly true with the DSF files I was having trouble with.

 

Solution: I purchased a piece of tagging software (Tag and Rename for $30 - btw I have given up on freeware, this alone is worthy of another thread) and opened the suspect files. Sure enough the DSF files I was having trouble with had NO TAGS AT ALL! Even the tagging software had a little trouble opening the files, but they did eventually open and I was able to enter the proper tags (basic stuff like artist, title, track, etc.). Once this was done the files could be opened, closed, etc. just like any other file. I can only postulate that the music section of the file was in tact and the tagging section (probably the very beginning or very end of the file) was somewhat corrupt due to the null values in the tag fields.

 

Bottom line: If you have DSF files that are slow to tag in JRMC then you should tag them with an external program to make sure that your tags are properly embedded into the file. I think Ted covers this concept in his tutorials but I don't remember seeing any warnings about files with no tags at all. Also, I was surprised at the number if regular PCM FLAC files with embedded tags that differed from what I had in JRMC.

 

FWIW all of the SACDs I ripped were fine, the problem DSF files were downloads (not all downloads, only a handful) and I wouldn't be surprised if they consistently came from the same site or two.

[Jabs1542]

Maybe it's just that JRiver and JPlay don't like each other and we are just pawns in their battle of chess?

[Jabs1542]

I've had the same problems and reached the same conclusion that Matt pointed out, it seems like a lot of the radio stations want you to use THEIR interface and hide the URL:port. It's quite aggravating.

 

I have managed to dig around (google) and I also have a little sniffer program that will find the URL:port being used for the music stream, I've had about 20-30% success with these tricks - it's very frustrating. I'll see if I can find that sniffer tool.

[Jabs1542]

You can get MC to open any web page by dragging the page onto a view that uses a browser window. Start, for example.

 

Yes, and that gets me the radio station's web page, full of its ads and obnoxious graphics flashing about. If I wanted the radio station's interface I could have just as easily saved it as a Favorite under IE.

 

Please help if I am missing something. I have managed to capture a half dozen decent radio stations and like the ability to easily select it in JRemote and play it anywhere in the house (I have Sonos access points throughout the house), btw I have a custom view just for the radio stations. Unfortunately some of the better stations are stubborn and very cleaver regarding the way they are hiding their streaming URL and ports.

 

thanks

[Jabs1542]

Since JRiver is not really helping here, you could use a tool like HTTPWatch to quickly identify the URL that's streaming the music data. There's a free and basic version available here: HttpWatch 9.4: HTTP Sniffer for IE, Firefox, iPhone and iPad

 

I will admit that this used to be easier, it seems that about 6 months ago the radio stations started getting really good at hiding their ports. It looks like they want to convince their advertisers that they have captured you on their site and not giving away music through another interface.

 

I eventually gave up and get my radio through Sonos (though I still have a handful of stations on JRMC).

[Jabs1542]

I have been using JRiver for a few years and have finally been motivated to design several custom views. Doing so has greatly facilitated the ease with which I manage my library presently approaching some 3,000 titles. I can now approach this diverse collection of music in new ways that have renewed my listening experience and enjoyment. Thanks to all those who share their experience here and encourage others to explore the rich possibilities of this resource.

To my question - none of these views are especially difficult to create but a few of them are time consuming to replicate. Can I use the library backup on the primary PC and import the settings to my second PC? Or is there another way to transfer these new views to my other platform?

Both are synced and share identical content. I thought I had done something similar once but my efforts at present have not been successful. I am using JRMC 20 on Window 7 devices.

 

Here's another option. If your main music server is on 24x7 then have the other PC connect to the remote database located on the main PC. That gives me a full fledged JRiver on an alternate PC using all of my music that is managed one time in one place, plus access to all the custom views I created (again, thanks Ted for the video and instructions). This works way better than Gizmo and doesn't require me to copy databases and settings all over the place - which is one more thing to manage.

[Jabs1542]

I dropped the NAS a while back (need to update my signature), the NAS was located in my listening room and was too loud (though it was fanless) and a bit weak when it came to DSD files (I had a lot of trouble getting tags to write to the files, it would hang up). I went to a dual external enclosure intending to go SATA but discovered that USB 3 worked fine. My NAS problems were clearly a matter of a weak machine (which was intentional in order to make it quiet).

 

I leave my main JRiver music server (CAPS v4) on 24x7 and have two other computers in the house running JRiver with thier databases pointing back to the main server (the two other computers have no JRiver database, other than the empty default database). I'm constantly exploring new music, or catching up on things I never had, and seem to be adding files almost weekly. So not having to constantly create backup database files and transfer them to the other machines is a big deal for me.

[Jabs1542]

I thought of building a C.A.P.S. level build but am reasonably pleased with my present HTPC. I'm not sure that my modest system (Music Fidelity Vlink 192 > Schiit Bifrost Uber > Marantz SR 6005 / Marantz UD5005 > Aperion Intimus 6Bs LR - 5B Center - 4 4DPs & Bravus 12D) would be revealing enough to warrant the investment in a C.A.P.S. build.

However, I do like the notion of having the libraries share the same database which could be centrally located on my NAS. Keeping the libraries' content synched with Syncovery is a simple matter but sharing a central database between devices sounds worthy of a try.

Any tips on setting this up? It seems like it is relatively straight forward.

Any thoughts on unwanted and unintended consequences?

 

Actually (I think) the library database is stored on the main PC running JRiver (the CAPS music server in my scenario) and the files themselves are out on a shared drive. The alternate computer running JRiver can "connect" to your main music server's JRiver database if that machine is on (thus leaving mine on 24x7). So the alternate computer uses the main database, with all its custom views, and the main database's pointers to wherever the files are.