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24/88 vs SACD


Suteetat
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Has any compare SACD sound quality to download 24/88 music track? The only SACD I have that I also has the same downloaded 24/88 is Linn's Artur Pizzarro Frederic Chopin Reminiscences.

I assume that the recording was initially recorded in DSD then converted to 24/88 for download store. However, I could not find any detail to backup this claim on the SACD jacket. Using a Pioneer universal DVD/SACD player sending DSD via iLink to my Esoteric D-05 with no clock, in comparison to 24/88 playback via my computer/Lynx AES16-SRC connecting via dual XLR with word input from D-05, upsampling to 176 kHz, 192kHz or no upsampling at 88kHz, SACD playback sounded better in my system. The opening left hand G# octave then C# octave of fantasie impromptu sounded more authoritative on SACD and the following fast passage with 3 voices going on at the same time, the SACD version has more clarity and the 24/88 sounded like the sustain pedal was being overused, in comparison. The different is not huge but noticeable. The piano also has a bit more bloom and sounded richer with SACD.

I don't have any other music to compare but wonder what is everybody else's experience?

 

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It is often accepted that 24/192 and SACD are nearly equivalent. Any resolution such as 24/96 or 24/88.2 would have slightly less than fidelity than SACD. A higher resolution such as DXD is said to be superior to SACD. 2L has several high-rez files that one can evaluate if you have equipment that’s capable.

 

Some information on DXD is presented here –

 

http://www.digitalaudio.dk/technical_papers/axion/dxd%20Resolution%20v3.5.pdf

 

And digital debates are just as strong as analog vs digital as presented here –

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital

 

 

 

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When you convert DSD into 24/88.2K you will always have a sonic compromise. This compromise depends on the DSP implementation (for example the NPC chips do sound much better than the widely used MTK chips for doing this conversation), so the resolution is different and also the timing. This is also the case, if you are doing this in Software (Weiss).

 

Initially the recording and the mastering of the DSD track is done to be good sounding in the DSD mode. So in principal it would be possible, that after the DSD to PCM conversion (24/88.2), when a recording company does pay some extra money and time so remaster the 88.2K files, that they do sound much closer to the DSD, than without remastering. But this will cost some extra money and time. So it is understandable, that they do just the conversion without remastering.

 

And it is also right, that the DXD is superior to DSD, and it is also right, that 2L has some very good files for doing comparison.

 

Juergen

 

 

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This is a problem with so many of high rez download music. Many of which are available for download are also available in SACD. While I like the convenient of music server, SACD still sounds better to me.

I will have to check out some of 2L recordings. I have Divertimenti album but in 24/96, did not realize that 2L also offer 24/176 version.

I wonder that when converted DXD to DSD vs 24/176, how would that compare.

I have some HRx recording and few other 24/176 tracks that sounds amazing.

 

 

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When videotapes came out Beta was superior to VHS, but VHS survived. That is until the superior DVDs came out and videotape releases largely disappeared. Now we have Blu-ray and when the prices for players and discs approach that of DVDs, DVD releases will soon be a thing of the past.

 

As time progresses dedicated SACD players will be a thing of the past. Universal players that play SACD will probably exist for some time but will the SACD playback be better than Blu-ray playback. And if in fact DXD, that is often considered to be superior to SACD, becomes a common standard for high-rez music, the number of people that care about SACD will shrink further.

 

As for SACD sales, if it wasn’t for hybrid SACD discs the format would have died with DVD-A. However, if the proprietary restrictions and royalties of SACD disappeared today, I believe we would have an overnight mini-boom in new DACs and high-rez music sales. Unfortunately, that’s not likely to happen so some will look to Blu-ray audio and others will look to DXD.

 

 

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Technology is moving very fast now and technology does not really have as much time to mature nor enough time for the consumer to really adjust. Now, whenever something new is coming out, there is always another new competing format to deal with as well. CD playback continue to improve even after almost 30 years after inception. Poor SACD never had much of a chance and now new format is knocking its door.

Oh well... only if mainstream recording company can keep up. While I like some performences offered on SACD, high rez download, the superior sonic quality alone cannot replace the great performances

that are available only on lesser format.

 

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Suteetat,

 

I think your point:

 

"Oh well... only if mainstream recording company can keep up. While I like some performences offered on SACD, high rez download, the superior sonic quality alone cannot replace the great performances that are available only on lesser format."

 

... is well taken! That is why Chris started Computer Audiophile - That and so that he can get to listen to lots of really high-end equipment for free.... heheheh

 

Hopefully we can soon see the elimination of all the differing and ever-changing playback formats (CD, SACD, DVD-A, etc.), and the recording companies will be able to just release their full catalogs as raw digital data at some point. Then all we will have to worry about is getting our hands on some of Chris's throw-away equipment in order to be able to play them by using our computers ;^) - things will end up being much more simple!

 

markr

 

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I'll tell you why.

 

In the March edition of Stereophile, Jason Serinus says this: "Depending on whether PentaTone's SACD titles sound best at 24/88.2 or 24/96, those hi-rez downloads will soon join hi-rez downloads from the Chicago Symphony's CSO label on HDTracks".

 

Here's why. DSD has a base freq of 44.1 and is clocked at 44.1 We do all the SACD/DSD/DVD-A transfers for HDtracks and other sites. We spent months transferring DSD information into every known sample rate and format via hardware and software. With sample rates at a base freq. of 48k (24/96 or 24/192) it just didn't sound "right". There was an uneasiness to the sound and "ringing" with HW transfers.

It sounded best at 352.8 and 176.4, but it was decided that the files were just too big to be manageable for download. Thus.. 88.2kHz!

So just because files are offered at both 24/96 and 24/88.2, don't assume that the higher sample rate is "better". It just came from a different source and they just want to get the highest fidelity possible!

 

 

Regards,

 

 

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I really wish more 24/176 or 24/192 version of DSD recording will become more available.

2L site is incredible and downloading 24/176 files are actually quite a bit faster than other sites' 24/88 download.

 

btw when will HDtracks be available for international customer (without having to be creative and sneaky! )

 

 

 

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I can't comment on International users. I only provide download files for the site.

I agree that more sites should have 24/176.4 or even DSD/DXD files. I know a lot of people have very fast internet connections because it only takes us a couple of minutes to download a gig or so.

 

Regards,

 

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