Crosby, Stills & Nash - HDTracks

[firedog]

On the other hand firedog ... if you bought a CD would you really expect a refund from the store because you didn't like it?

 

Eloise

 

Eloise-

 

Actually, my experience with music stores is that they will give you a credit if you return a disc. Some will let you listen to it before you buy. I wouldn't return one just because I didn't like the music, but I have returned them for other reasons, including bad sound. But the case here is different.

 

I'm buying a remaster of something that I know already I like the music. The point of buying a remaster, especially a hi-res one, is to get something better sounding than what was previously available. That's also how it is marketed by HDT (see their web page for the download).

 

IMO, what I received was of inferior SQ to previous (not hi-res) CDs.

 

BTW, I don't know what it's like in the UK, but in the US (I don't live there either) lots of establishments accept returns with no (or minimal) questions asked. This is especially true for some retailers that are internet/catalogue based, as they understand that their long term success is based on consumer confidence about ordering items sight unseen (in this case "unheard").

[Audio_ELF]

Actually, my experience with music stores is that they will give you a credit if you return a disc. Some will let you listen to it before you buy. I wouldn't return one just because I didn't like the music, but I have returned them for other reasons, including bad sound. But the case here is different.

Okay, my experience of music stores is unless the CD is damaged then caveat emptor...

 

I'm buying a remaster of something that I know already I like the music. The point of buying a remaster, especially a hi-res one, is to get something better sounding than what was previously available. That's also how it is marketed by HDT (see their web page for the download).

 

IMO, what I received was of inferior SQ to previous (not hi-res) CDs.

Yes but then there is the rub isn't it...

 

Unless you are debating the claim from HD Tracks that they supply the tracks supplied to them, then it is just an opinion if the SQ is inferior. This (IMO anyway) is different from supplying tracks which are actually just upsampled somewhere along the line. Now you can argue that HD Tracks could (should?) supply details about dynamic range and show the spectrum of each track - but thats a marketing decision on HD Tracks part.

 

BTW, I don't know what it's like in the UK, but in the US (I don't live there either) lots of establishments accept returns with no (or minimal) questions asked. This is especially true for some retailers that are internet/catalogue based, as they understand that their long term success is based on consumer confidence about ordering items sight unseen (in this case "unheard").

Most stores in the UK are good about accepting goods back - the exception would be music stores. For mail order (catalogue and internet) we have specific distance selling rules which give 7 (maybe 14) days to return goods.

 

Eloise

[latitude94941]

Thanks for saving me money on this one, folks.

 

Already have the Steve Hoffman and Bernie Grundman mastered CDs (both are good), but was ready to spring for the HDTracks.

 

It's a real shame that whoever mastered this release felt they needed to crush the dynamic range. John Nowland did the high resolution analogue to digital transfers, so good source material to begin with.

 

I just don't get it--unless this mastering is also going to be used for yet another red book release, why the heavy-handed compression? Do they think people who are paying a premium for these 24/96 releases are listening to them through ear buds or in the car?

[Jud]

Unless you are debating the claim from HD Tracks that they supply the tracks supplied to them, then it is just an opinion if the SQ is inferior. This (IMO anyway) is different from supplying tracks which are actually just upsampled somewhere along the line. Now you can argue that HD Tracks could (should?) supply details about dynamic range and show the spectrum of each track - but thats a marketing decision on HD Tracks part.

 

Eloise

 

Yes, they've in effect rolled the dice, banking that their decision to rely on the labels will keep enough customers coming. As someone who would like to see the market for high-res downloads thrive, I'm concerned about this, because it seems to me relying on the major labels to conscientiously supply good value for money, rather than simply pumping out "New! Improved!" product on a schedule to help satisfy this quarter's revenue projections, is to find oneself leaning on a very slim reed indeed.

[Garf]

I am pretty sure I saw this release at barnes and nobles the other day, unless it is an old remaster (every song was listed with 'remastered' after the title). To add injury to insult, the disc had three bonus tracks.

[firedog]

Okay, so my disappointment with the HDTracks version prompted me to get the gold CD. IMO, it sounds much better. Not fatiguing. Too bad the hi-res was volume compressed, it would have been interesting to compare it to the Steve Hoffman version otherwise.

 

Here are the DR values, posted again for convenience:

foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0

log date: 2012-10-13 07:18:05

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Crosby, Stills & Nash / Crosby, Stills & Nash [AFZ 131]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR12 -0.15 dB -14.83 dB 7:25 01-Suite: Judy Blue Eyes

DR12 -1.55 dB -16.48 dB 2:38 02-Marrakesh Express

DR12 -2.81 dB -18.28 dB 4:39 03-Guinnevere

DR12 -2.32 dB -15.81 dB 2:44 04-You Don't Have To Cry

DR11 -0.50 dB -14.25 dB 3:01 05-Pre-Road Downs

DR10 -0.30 dB -14.06 dB 5:27 06-Wooden Ships

DR12 -3.54 dB -21.87 dB 2:38 07-Lady Of The Island

DR11 -2.91 dB -17.28 dB 2:41 08-Helplessly Hoping

DR11 -1.58 dB -15.51 dB 4:16 09-Long Time Gone

DR10 -0.30 dB -13.23 dB 5:16 10-49 Bye-Byes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of tracks: 10

Official DR value: DR11

[KDinsmore]

Don't they listen to these first themselves and do their own analysis before they pop it up for sale on the site?

[labjr]

On the other hand firedog ... if you bought a CD would you really expect a refund from the store because you didn't like it?

 

Eloise

 

You can sell a CD if you don't like it. Not with downloads. And with the description on the web site I would expect it to be perfect. That's HDtracks for you. All marketing and no customer service.

[firedog]

Don't they listen to these first themselves and do their own analysis before they pop it up for sale on the site?

 

Apparently not. Their policy is to give us what the labels give them. They only seem to intervene if it is a case of the master not being "real" hi-res, or some other obvious defect. Not what we would call SQ.

[mav52]

Downloaded it, didn't like it as compared to my 1969 original release with Broadway address on label, with the textured gatefold cover & lyric sheet which to me sounds better which I like in vinyl so maybe its really my memories of Woodstock and seeing CSN&Y @ 3am Monday morning. Haven't compared the gold CD yet. I also have the original Deja Vu in vinyl.

[paul30d]

Apparently not. Their policy is to give us what the labels give them. They only seem to intervene if it is a case of the master not being "real" hi-res, or some other obvious defect. Not what we would call SQ.

 

They just need to stop branding what they sell as "audiophile". They can still call it "high resolution" if they want. But "audiophile" implies something different and better.

[The Computer Audiophile]

[semurphy]

Definitely sub par release in my view. Bass heavy, compressed...agree with the comments.

Never purchased a gold CD before but this might be the first time. Is the best that can be done with this recording or is this a vote for vinyl?

 

Sean