Article: EMM Labs DAC2X Review

[dmnc02]

Ted,

 

This is my first foray into the DSD dimension. What has been your experience. My has been quite positive so far. I like it, even before the unit is fully broken in.

 

There are few products I have no problem buying blindly and Spectral, ARC and Meitner are probably my only three. I was about to pull the trigger on the MA-1 just before Chris's review which caught me by surprise so I went for the DAC2X. Just curious how long of a break in period you needed before the true character of the DAC came through.

 

Priaptor, like you I use the DAC2X with ARC Reference gear and I have owned pretty much every emm player since they entered the audiophile market. In my experience, you will start being able to fully appreciate the DAC2X at around 200 hours, but full break-in will take about 400-500 hours. Also, if you are using it with ARC gear, you should IMHO at least try to hear it from its balanced outputs before committing to single-ended (I believe from your posts in another thread that you might now be using single-ended interconnects).

[stumil]

stumil,

 

I recently set up my EMM DAC2X on Sunday and have only listened to it sparingly at this point, as I really don't like to judge equipment until I feel there has been that change in character that almost always accompanies new products. I will also be reporting my findings in the next couple of weeks. My comparison will be to a previously owned PS Audio MKI, ARC DAC 8 which the EMM is replacing as well as a comparison to an older dCS Debussy, the latter while a wonderful piece, just wasn't my cup of tea. I am not criticizing the dCS, but it's characteristics were just my taste.

 

 

My system is all ARC gear, including a REF5SE preamp, REF 250 monoblocks driving Nola Baby Grands II. My initial impressions of the DAC2X is very positive but not overwhelming at this time, compared to my outgoing DAC 8. This is not a slight on the EMM as I know it has not yet reached its full character at this point and is improving everyday. Last night I believe was a breakthrough in the burn in process where my expectations are starting to close in on reality, but there is still a gap. (as an economic Noble Prize winner who developed his groundbreaking psycho-econometric model concluded, Economic Happiness = Reality/Expectations; which can really be applied to just about all things). My "happiness" with increasing daily BUT, my expectations for this product are very high.

 

So I will give a follow up when I believe the system is ready. Right now it has about 120 hours on it and is really starting to sweeten up. Since I the DAC8 is outgoing, I can say, I am amazed this incredible dac didn't get better accolades. I will miss some of its unique characteristics, but can already, at this short period of time with the EMM, see it will be surpassed in many areas by the DAC2X

 

One nice thing is that Chris uses my favorite transistor gear, namely Spectral and I use my favorite tube gear namely ARC, so I think together our opinions will give a nice spectrum to those considering the unit.

 

Will report back later.

 

 

Priaptor,

 

Thanks for your post. We have similar systems (although you are flying at loftier levels) in that I have the ARC Ref3, ARC Ref110, and Vandersteen 5a combo. With your similar gear, and the fact that you are an "old hand" on this forum, your observations are going to carry much weight with me. I am really looking forward to seeing how your EMM improves over the next 100-200 hours. Keep me informed!

 

I just had the pleasure of auditioning the Aesthetix Romulus vs. Berkeley Alpha DAC 2.0/Alpha USB for a week here in my system. Both are excellent but have distinct strengths and (minor) weaknesses. They both sound so good, but I still want more. Just not sure if I want to dump $10k-$15k more into digital.

 

Regards - Stuart

[Priaptor]

Priaptor,

 

Thanks for your post. We have similar systems (although you are flying at loftier levels) in that I have the ARC Ref3, ARC Ref110, and Vandersteen 5a combo. With your similar gear, and the fact that you are an "old hand" on this forum, your observations are going to carry much weight with me. I am really looking forward to seeing how your EMM improves over the next 100-200 hours. Keep me informed!

 

I just had the pleasure of auditioning the Aesthetix Romulus vs. Berkeley Alpha DAC 2.0/Alpha USB for a week here in my system. Both are excellent but have distinct strengths and (minor) weaknesses. They both sound so good, but I still want more. Just not sure if I want to dump $10k-$15k more into digital.

 

Regards - Stuart

 

I understand. One can go broke with this hobby. I will definitely keep this site updated when I feel the unit is fully broken in.

[ted_b]

Priaptor,

1) i think the Meitner really blossoms into its full potential at about 300 hours, although Gregory (Meitner) will tell you it doesn't take that long. He's been right about so many things that maybe mine is some sort of expectation bias, since most of my best stuff takes that long.

 

2) I have so much invested in DSD (600+ SACDs ripped, 2 DSD dacs, etc) that hearing about DSD from me might seem biased; it is, but only because it hooked me. I find it to be soo much more effortless than even 24/176 PCM (24/192 native PCM recordings are damn good too, but few and far between), but it might be a very individual thing. And I am speaking about that large-but-subsetted-collection of DSD that is either pure DSD recordings or analog-to-DSD. Any PCM sourced converted material sounds fine, but I'd much rather have the PCM source. However, in the case of many of these PCM-based SACD's the hirez PCM source is not available, so it's as good as we can get (EMI's hdtracks releases and BIS's own eclassical downloads of the original PCM notwithstanding). For me the sound of piano is sublime in native DSD.

[edorr]

Let me jump in with a question if I may. am considering the purchase of a DCA2X. I m currently using the PS audio PWD MKII. I am using the DAC in the following chain: CAPS 2.0 -> Offramp 5 -> trinnov ST2 processor -> DAC -> Class A Monoblocks - Evolution Acoustics MM3.

 

I am currently using the digital volume control in the Trinnov. I was actually in the market for a DAC with a build in analog volume control (have my eyes on the new MSB analog DAC), but I am very seriously considering a DAC2X as an alternative. In this scenario, I would either have to continue to (1) use the Trinnov digital volume control (64 floating point processor based DSP), or (2) build a dedicated volume control using passive transformer based modules. Buying a high grade switching preamp is not an option.

 

Any thoughts on the merits of of (1) versus (2). Would the DAC2X be able to drive my 200watt class A monoblocks? Input impedance is 100Kohm. Would the digital volume control degrade the performance of the DAC2X? I need up to 50db attenuation. I am close to pulling the trigger on the DAC2X, but a little hesitant because of these volume control issue.

[Priaptor]

Let me jump in with a question if I may. am considering the purchase of a DCA2X. I m currently using the PS audio PWD MKII. I am using the DAC in the following chain: CAPS 2.0 -> Offramp 5 -> trinnov ST2 processor -> DAC -> Class A Monoblocks - Evolution Acoustics MM3.

 

I am currently using the digital volume control in the Trinnov. I was actually in the market for a DAC with a build in analog volume control (have my eyes on the new MSB analog DAC), but I am very seriously considering a DAC2X as an alternative. In this scenario, I would either have to continue to (1) use the Trinnov digital volume control (64 floating point processor based DSP), or (2) build a dedicated volume control using passive transformer based modules. Buying a high grade switching preamp is not an option.

 

Any thoughts on the merits of of (1) versus (2). Would the DAC2X be able to drive my 200watt class A monoblocks? Input impedance is 100Kohm. Would the digital volume control degrade the performance of the DAC2X? I need up to 50db attenuation. I am close to pulling the trigger on the DAC2X, but a little hesitant because of these volume control issue.

 

 

edorr,

 

I have been waiting to ensure that my unit is properly broken in, which I believe it now is, as well as ensuring my system is properly set up, which it now is, as well as giving the DAC2X extended listening sessions, which I now have before I gave my somewhat lengthy opinion (subjective) with personal caveats about this unit. It is a very positive experience which I will post, however, you will need a preamp. Needless to say, I am enjoying my music like I have before. The unit is fabulous.

 

I had a PS Audio, ARC DAC8 have tried many other units in my system including a DCS Debussy among others.

 

Once again, just my opinion, but I believe that JRiver, with CAPS 2, set to WASAPI-Event mode is the way to go. I used my Mac players with the unit and while I do not want to insult anybody or take anyone's wrath once again for my subjective analysis, I think JRiver set to WASAPI-Event blows away the Mac alternatives-in my opinion, not a close call.

 

I will post more on this unit later. My bit of advice after having heard over 10 DACs in my system-get it if you can afford it.

[edorr]

Thanks for the input. I can just about swing the DAC2X if I do NOT need an expensive switching preamp. I could build 2 channel passive transformer based volume control for around 2K though. Why do you think the DAC2X would not work without a preamp (i.e. using digital volume control downstream). Do you think the passive transformer base volume control would work? Are you using CAPS with USB into the DAC2X, are do you use a USB converter?

[Priaptor]

Priaptor, like you I use the DAC2X with ARC Reference gear and I have owned pretty much every emm player since they entered the audiophile market. In my experience, you will start being able to fully appreciate the DAC2X at around 200 hours, but full break-in will take about 400-500 hours. Also, if you are using it with ARC gear, you should IMHO at least try to hear it from its balanced outputs before committing to single-ended (I believe from your posts in another thread that you might now be using single-ended interconnects).

 

dmnc02

 

Trust me I have always used balanced cables in my system and this was no exception.

 

However, I was so startled by the uniqueness of the High Fidelity CT-1, which at this point is RCA only (and I doubt will ever be balanced, although who knows) that I can't go back to any of my alternatives. I don't want to start another war on these threads as I did when I innocently gave my views about my experience with these fine cables, BUT, I just want to say, I knew nothing about them when my dealer and friend brought them over, he nor I had any idea about these cables or the pseudoscience on his website, neither one of us had even known there was a website for his cable until after the fact and tried them strictly because of recommendations of a prominent speaker builder and old time reviewer from the Absolute Sound (whose opinion I trust). Needless to say, all of us who tried this cable had similar opinions. None of us shared our opinions with each other until we tried it. The first I heard what these others had to say about them was after our session with them. You are going to be hearing a lot about these cables and for good reason.

 

I much rather use XLR cables, trust me, but these cables are just that good. Those of us that have tried them are replacing our much more expensive cables in our reference systems, yes, including Odin XLR.

 

If you can get a pair to try I recommend doing so.

[Priaptor]

Thanks for the input. I can just about swing the DAC2X if I do NOT need an expensive switching preamp. I could build 2 channel passive transformer based volume control for around 2K though. Why do you think the DAC2X would not work without a preamp (i.e. using digital volume control downstream). Do you think the passive transformer base volume control would work? Are you using CAPS with USB into the DAC2X, are do you use a USB converter?

 

I am not using a switching converter. I am using a USB cable direct from CAPS into the DAC2x.

 

You could probably do just fine with what you are talking about building. My point, was that there was no digital volume built into the unit so some interface would be needed. How good it will sound, I don't know. I am using an ARC REF5SE and am loving it.

[edorr]

Ahh. So when you said preamp, you referred to volume control. I used to have a modwright 36.5 LS/PS and ditched it for the digital volume control after I got the PWD MKII upgrade and never looked back. May be I should get the DAC2X, see how well it works with upstream digital volume control, and if it appears to compromise (how would I know though), build the 2 channel analog volume control.

 

You could help me out tremendously by taking your REF5 out of the chain and using the digital volume control in JRiver and see how it compares. This is close to what I am thinking of doing. robably way too much of a hassle though .....

[barrows]

I find it quite amusing all the time how people think a transformer based volume control will be a good idea. A transformer in the signal path like this adds huge amounts of wire for the signal to travel through, and more distortion than a good active circuit. If one must use an analog volume control, I would suggest that better performance will be had with a really, really good active device, with a really, really good stepped attenuator, using really, really good resistors and switches. Alternatively, some of the newer IC based volume controls appear to be really good (as I believe ARC uses).

Unfortunately, a really good analog, active, volume control is going to be expensive, there is no way around this, and it requires great power supplies, great switches, and lots of high quality parts throughout.

Well implemented software (digital) volume control is a good option. The one in Pure Music is very good, I do not know anything about those available for Windows, but there must be something worth trying, perhaps HQplayer, or XXHighend...

Of course, generally, it is good to components which are well matched from a gain standpoint in order to take advantage of a digital volume control, the need for 50 dB of attenuation seems a little high to me for critical listening. Perhaps the amplifier can have its gain lowered a little?

[edorr]

50db would be extreme. common use would be 30-40 db. It would helpful if I could notch down the output of the DAC2X by 10db...

The passive VC I had in mind would be based on the bent audio stagleformer units (BentAudio.com :: TAP) (look on the OEM / DIY TAP Modules page)

[NiHo]

I should comment as somebody who uses a transformer based pre-amp, the Audio Zone Pre-T1 Pre T1 Preamp - Audio Zone. I have found it to be a significant improvement over my former active pre-amp (Bryston BP-25). There is much lower self-noise, ie I hear much more detail than with the active pre-amp. In my case all wiring is balanced. Maybe a more expensive active pre-amp would perform even better, but you are getting into some very expensive equipment.

 

Having said which the volume control in Pure Music does perform even better, but I don't find it particularly easy to use, particularly as I'm not the only user of the system.

 

Technically the Bent stagleformer is an autoformer, not a transformer.

 

Nigel

[edorr]

Nigel, that is helpful. Are you saying you prefer doing digtial volume control upstream from the DAC over using your passive pre behind the DAC, but you are using the pre for practical reasons and input switching? That would bode well for usability of the DAC2X in my configuration.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - I suggest giving EMM Labs a little nudge in the direction of enabling the digital volume control in the DAC2X :~)

 

I've always thought the Weiss Engineering ATT202 was a neat volume control device as well -> Weiss :: High End : ATT202 PASSIVE ATTENUATOR

[edorr]

With so many folks using just digital sources, any new DAC should have a volume control (digtial, analog or hybrid) in my opinion. The DAC is effectively becoming a preamp (i.e. switch + volume control). I'm surprised EMM has not picked up on this. The older EMM DAC with volume control uses the anlog circuitry from their switchman preamp I believe.

 

I think the cheapest way to do this without comporomise is to build a digital volume control, and have a gain switch that gives you 3 or 4 output voltage levels. This would allow you to match output of the DAC to the sensitivity to your speakers, and control volume in the lossless digital range (say up to 25db attenuation). The PS audio crowd is screaming out for this (the output voltage adjustment), and it is one of their great regrets they did not include this in the original design.

[edorr]

The ATT202 is 7K. Trow in a set of additional cables and before you know it you're talking serious money. I think using four stagleformers in a full balanced design in a DIY project will get you 95% (if not 100%) of the way there, for $2500. I would hardware a short run of input cable into the box. If a manufacturer did this this would be a $7K passive preamp, based on component prices and dealer margin.

[edorr]

Someone mentioned on a forum "If you read the comments following the review on Computer Audiophile, variable output should be coming soon via firmware upgrade. Audio Midi Setup on the Mac already recognizes the variable output." I cannot find this reference.

 

Chris also alludes to "enabling the digital volume control". Am i to conclude digtial volume control is in the works for the DAC2X???

[NiHo]

Nigel, that is helpful. Are you saying you prefer doing digtial volume control upstream from the DAC over using your passive pre behind the DAC, but you are using the pre for practical reasons and input switching? That would bode well for usability of the DAC2X in my configuration.

 

Yes, you are correct. I also have an tuner hooked-up so the Pre-T1 selects between the sources, as well as controlling the volume. Experimenting with volume control in Pure Music, and hooking the Dac directly to the amplifiers gave a slightly clearer sound, much less than the difference between the Bryston and the Pre-T1. However running a mac mini in headless mode through screen sharing, I found the volume control on PM or A+ to be clunky. It wouldn't be practical in my household.

 

Nigel

[edorr]

OK. I have confirmation there will be a digital volume control in the DAC2X through firmware. That does it for me. I'm rolling the dice and am going all in.

[The Computer Audiophile]

OK. I have confirmation there will be a digital volume control in the DAC2X through firmware. That does it for me. I'm rolling the dice and am going all in.

 

Excellent edorr.

[edorr]

Excellent edorr.

 

As I am typing this up, I am listening to my PS audio PWD MK II wondering how much better can it really get? We'll soon find out I guess.

 

I was actually about to get the new MSB analog dac in for audition, but could not resists when the DAC2X showed up. If you can get your hands on the MSB for a review you should. The DAC IV line is to insanely priced for consideration, but the analog DAC is almost realistically priced at 10k.

 

I might still get it myself for 30 day trial for a shoot out against the DAC2X at some point...

[Encore]

OK. I have confirmation there will be a digital volume control in the DAC2X through firmware. That does it for me. I'm rolling the dice and am going all in.

 

Interesting. Any word on whether it would reach the Meitner MA-1 too?

[dmnc02]

As I am typing this up, I am listening to my PS audio PWD MK II wondering how much better can it really get? We'll soon find out I guess.

 

I was actually about to get the new MSB analog dac in for audition, but could not resists when the DAC2X showed up. If you can get your hands on the MSB for a review you should. The DAC IV line is to insanely priced for consideration, but the analog DAC is almost realistically priced at 10k.

 

I might still get it myself for 30 day trial for a shoot out against the DAC2X at some point...

 

Edorr, I own the DAC2X and I am also curious about comparison with the MSB Platinum IV. I would have already borrowed one for comparison were it not for the fact that I have decided that my next upgrade will be the addition of an analog front end. I would be extremely interested in reading the result of your shootout.

 

BTW, I was the author of the post from another forum you quoted. I am glad you got confirmation of the upcoming volume control.

[dmnc02]

dmnc02

 

Trust me I have always used balanced cables in my system and this was no exception.

 

However, I was so startled by the uniqueness of the High Fidelity CT-1, which at this point is RCA only (and I doubt will ever be balanced, although who knows) that I can't go back to any of my alternatives. I don't want to start another war on these threads as I did when I innocently gave my views about my experience with these fine cables, BUT, I just want to say, I knew nothing about them when my dealer and friend brought them over, he nor I had any idea about these cables or the pseudoscience on his website, neither one of us had even known there was a website for his cable until after the fact and tried them strictly because of recommendations of a prominent speaker builder and old time reviewer from the Absolute Sound (whose opinion I trust). Needless to say, all of us who tried this cable had similar opinions. None of us shared our opinions with each other until we tried it. The first I heard what these others had to say about them was after our session with them. You are going to be hearing a lot about these cables and for good reason.

 

I much rather use XLR cables, trust me, but these cables are just that good. Those of us that have tried them are replacing our much more expensive cables in our reference systems, yes, including Odin XLR.

 

If you can get a pair to try I recommend doing so.

 

Priaptor, I am in no way questioning what you heard, but it is not clear from your posts whether your evaluation of the High-Fidelity CT-1 was done with the broken-in DAC2X as the source or with a different source. The DAC2X has a dual differential architecture and using it with ARC gear allows you to maintain a fully balanced configuration from source to end. Also, since the REF250's we both use have balanced inputs only, you need to mix balanced interconnects from a different brand from preamp to amp or use an adapter. Most importantly, I heard my previous emm XDS1 in a friend's system which, although very high-end, is single-ended only and was unimpressed with the performance, especially in the bass, which was much leaner than what I was used to hearing in my system or in my friend's system with his regular source. While there were admittedly several variables at play other than the outputs being used, it seemed to warrant a suggestion to experiment with the DAC2X's outputs in your system if you have not already done so.