flac download vs SACD

[lapaix]

Many musical performances are available both as FLAC downloads and as SACDs. For instance many of the files at DGG and 2L are available in either format. Has anyone compared them? If so, which one did you prefer?

 

[PeterSt]

Not many will be able to feed a DSD stream from the hard disk into their soundcard/DAC.

Possibly nobody.

 

But maybe some creative persons are able to burn an SACD from it, and stuff it into their boxed player. :-)

 

Peter

 

[Suteetat]

Hmmm, I saw on DG site that for SACD, they will ship the physical disc to you. For download, I only see MP3 and flac.

I don't even think that you can burn SACD as there is no computer hardware/software that can read SACD, let alone burning one. May be I am mistaken!

 

 

 

[JensPH]

Sadly "Suteetat" is right; It is impossible to download in the SACD format just as it is impossible to read or write a SACD layer on a PC/Mac.

Philips and Sony holds the patents and unlike the many ridiculous attempts at making cd's impossible to copy the SACD makes good use of a portion of the disc which is unreachable for a normal cd/dvd drive to validate the disc and that the player is licensed.

Too bad - on some of the CD's where the mastering has destroyed all musicality the SACD layer sounds great. Some seem to believe this has more to do with its inability to cope with brickwall compression than the 1-bit DSD based format!

I will soon be attempting to re-digitize the analog output of a SACD player to hear if this holds true.

 

[Suteetat]

What I am hoping for is that if high rez download becomes more popular, some recording company might consider transfering original DSD recording to 24/176. I heard that at least some professional gears can convert DSD to 24/176 very well.

Outside of that, some SACD players such as Esoteric P05, P03, Marantz/Denon (not the current year model but 2-3 generation back) has DSD output via IEEE (iLink) or in Esoteric case, IEEE or dual XLR, that might be an easier way to capture DSD without going through DA converter.

 

[flat6]

SACD transports & players like Esoteric, Marantz/Denon, dCS, etc. will only output "encrypted DSD" via IEEE or some other interface (note: this is part of Sony technology licensing requirements).

 

to stream DSD (not a common interface), i was told one needs a Sony Vaio computer running Sony DSD player software. firewire connect to specific Sony DA converter with professional Audio Card (Merging Pyramix or Sony Sonoma). in other words, you'll pretty much need to go with Sony all the way...

 

[PeterSt]

Sadly "Suteetat" is right; It is impossible to download in the SACD format just as it is impossible to read or write a SACD layer on a PC/Mac.

 

Not so fast ...

2L offers DSD downloads. But what I said still stands.

 

 

[Suteetat]

I just looked at 2L site. So if I download a DSD64 file from 2L then what do I do?

I don't have Sony Vaio stuff.

I think there is a DSD plugin for WM 10/11 but I think that plugin just convert DSD to PCM for playback so

that might defeat the purpose.

There also does not seem to be an economical way of converting DSD to high rez PCM

unless you spend quite a bit of money (like close to $1000), is there?

 

 

 

[flat6]

you could use the Weiss Saracon-DSD software (http://www.weiss.ch/p2d/p2d.html) to convert DSD to PCM or vice versa. the s/ware will work on PCs & Macs.

 

[Ashley James]

The important think to remember is that none of these formats are relevant if the material wasn't high resolution to start with. Linn records sell loads of 24 Bit or SACD titles, but only a fraction are genuinely 24 Bit. Most are reprocessed or re-mastered recordings taken from older equipment with higher noise and distortion figures and originally recorded and mastered to analogue tape. This limits the result to 10-12 Bits and transferring it to 24 Bit will make no difference to how it sounds any more that taking a 24 Bit track and converting it to 16 bit for replay.

 

What really matters is the sound quality of ANY recording because some made in the fifties or earlier can sound stunning.

 

Everyone wants better sound quality, but few realise there are far bigger improvements to be made in their systems than in changing from old analogue tape recordings to 16 Bit and that the jump to 24 will probably not be audible.

 

Ash

 

[lapaix]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. The question for which I was seeking an answer is not whether (a) SACD can be converted to PCM or (b) whether it can be played from a computer ((a)yes it can, but at considerable expense, Saracon is expensive, and (b) no it cannot), but whether if one has a decent SACD player, it makes any sense to download a FLAC version or purchase the SACD. Well-recorded SACDs sound great in my system, and I have only a vanishingly low number of high res files, which sound great too, but my basis of comparison is very small.

 

It is really too bad that many sellers of "HD" downloads are really selling the same old stuff in a new package.

 

[Suteetat]

Sorry, I misunderstood your initial question.

This is my take on the topic. If I have an SACD with original DSD recording, I don't see how a FLAC version could be any better. However, the only reason to get those FLAC version is if you don't want to deal with a disc and want to have everything stored on hard drive.

Some people seems to think that proper SACD (not SACD remastered from original 16/44 PCM) is similar in quality to a well recorded 24/88. However, I don't really have enough sample to try since I don't have that many SACDs nor many hi rez file yet.

 

[JensPH]

Hey flat6 - I'm all ears :-) - how exactly will SARACON help me convert the DSD content of a physical SACD?

The output is encrypted and the key is stored on a part of the DVD which is iaccessible for the DVD-drive.

(SACD is really a DVD with a different formatting if anyone is confused)

If you know how to do it I am pretty sure a lot of people could benefit from it!

 

[flat6]

hi Jens,

 

i've got > 150 SACDs, so i certainly wish there was a way to acquire the "DSD layer" of these discs. unfortunately, data acquisition presents the greatest difficulty when it comes to DSD (as opposed to the conversion process). no way to do this once it's been transferred on to a SACD (as you've pointed out).

 

although it is possible to acquire PCM files & upsample them to DSD using h/ware or s/ware (like Saracon), such files are like the 1st gen SACDs (i.e. they've already been compromised).

 

i believe the only options aval. to end consumers are: (a) to purchase & download a native DSD file (if one is offered by a record company); (b) conduct your own live recordings; or © hack the "DSD encryption" on a SACD transport.

 

with the proliferation of computer audio, perhaps Sony will someday realize they need to loosen their grip on these proprietary formats (& make DSD more assessible to all), but this is prob not going to happen anytime soon.