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The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology

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And a final note. Who would spend more on their speaker cables than they spent on their very expensive speakers?

 

George, you can rest assured that the Exhibitor didn't pay even a small fraction of $47,000 for the speaker cables, if he spent anything at all.

 

But, for the buying public, I totally agree with your logic. I was criticized when I wrote something similar about spending $9,000 for a USB cable, so I won't be surprised if the same thing happens here.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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Yes, I agree, but I would drop the words "strongly believes" and substitute "has experienced" because that word believe really belongs to the group who has read and accepted something, and not someone who has experienced something.

 

Aren't you describing a distinction without a difference? Speaking for myself and others who share this view, I would state that I have experienced differences in sound quality between cables and I therefore "strongly believe" those differences to be real, regardless of the demands for proof by certain objectivists, whose opinions are of no importance to me.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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Yes, Allan, I agree. You might have misunderstood what I was saying. I was trying to define the limitations of "belief," and suggesting that your experience is better than just believing in something because your read it somewhere.

 

I see what you are saying now, Richard. I note that you are a newbie and can appreciate that you find the topic fascinating. For my part, I have seen the topic debated over and over again in countless threads, with nary a meeting of the minds. So, I can let sleeping dogs lie for a very long time, if not forever. :)


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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18 hours ago, sandyk said:

 George

 Although I find that USB Audio can be markedly improved, I still prefer well implemented Coax SPDIF.

 It's a shame that they didn't further develop Coax SPDIF using more recent technology , as it's capable of far better.

 

Regards

Alex

 

Isn't SPDIF limited to DSD256? Many are upsampling to DSD512 via HQPlayer and USB.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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12 hours ago, sandyk said:

Allan

For some time now there have been tiny chips with a Bandwidth of >250MHZ and 2 x gain, capable of driving a terminated 75 ohm line.

Recent devices have even higher bandwidths . 

They could have easily extended Coax SPDIF bandwidth using these kind of techniques at low cost.

 

 

Alex,

Correct me if I am wrong but what I take from your post is that, while there are now chips available that could extend SPDIF bandwidth capability beyond DSD256, they have not been implemented in the standard. So, in practical terms, SPDIF is still limited to DSD256.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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23 hours ago, sandyk said:

Why do so many members need to use expensive aftermarket USB cables such as Peter's Lush Cable, and way more expensive types ?

 

One could just as well ask why some people spend $US1995 for a Berkeley Alpha USB to SPDIF converter.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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39 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 IOW is the objection to the $ involved or based on the assertion that none of these things make a difference, or both? On either count, I know what my answer is, and really there is only one person I need to please in this hobby .....,

 

As to your concluding phrase, I couldn't agree with you more!


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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19 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Can you install a Soundcard in a Mac Mini? Does a Mac Mini have Coax SPDIF Out , or does it only have onboard Toslink ?

 IIRC, USB Audio mainly evolved due to the demands of Mac Mini and affordable Laptop owners.

 

A USB to SPDIF converter is/was a requirement to operate certain DACs, e.g. Berkeley, original Bricasti, etc. that have/had no USB input.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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1 hour ago, Teresa said:

What makes a USB to SPDIF converter so expensive? That converter costs almost as much as my entire audio / video / computer system.

 

While it doesn't answer your question of why Berkeley's USB to SPDIF converter costs $1995, perhaps the fact that their DAC sells for $22,000 provides some context.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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13 hours ago, jabbr said:

Do you mean because subjectivists don’t know what facts are? Or because objectivists are better able to clearly articulate the vais y for their opinions? Or what is it? ***
 

*** actually I find quite the opposite, many sentences bjectivists seem to have heard something on one occasion and espouse whatever they heard as a global eternal truth. This goes equally both ways if you are able to see both sides ;) 

 

Sorry, but I have no idea of what you are getting at in your first paragraph. However, the simple answer to both questions is "No". :)


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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49 minutes ago, jabbr said:

To summarise: both groups seem to equally pronounce that they have the only "truth"

 

I would agree that both groups believe that they are right. But, there is generally a difference in approach between the two groups. Many objectivists do speak in universal terms of an "only truth", e.g. "The laws of physics dictate that, If you can't measure a difference, there can be no audible difference". Regarding the current topic that translates to, "All USB cables that measure according to the standard must sound the same".

 

Most subjectivists, by definition, speak in terms of their experiences as opposed to universal "truths" , e.g "Different USB cables may (not will) sound different". They tend to be far are less concerned with the reasons for those differences than they are about the practical results of their experiences. That approach is not acceptable to most objectivists, who require objective proof. Some even appear to be on a mission to "convert" subjectivists to their view of the world. :) And there are some people who don't fit neatly into either camp.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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1 hour ago, semente said:

There is also another concern. If I apply double-blind ABX tests to cables and thereby eliminate all cables from the review schedule of the magazine, a cable manufacturer can potentially call this special pleading for cables and insist I perform the same test on sources and amplifiers. That would likely lead to the conclusion that all CD players and amplifiers sound the same under double-blind ABX conditions. I would imagine that would cut pretty deeply into the perceived credibility of the magazine by its readers.

 

I would imagine that such a conclusion would cut pretty deeply into the perceived credibility of the tests.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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1 hour ago, PYP said:

 

seems there is enough interest for a separate thread.  How about:  Electron Health in Today's Modern World.  

 

Would the empty space between electrons and the nucleus qualify as social distancing?


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Smooth ride and great road holding are pretty much diametrically opposed concepts, Frank (although modern computer modeling has allowed for some compromises between performance and ride for road cars, no such concessions exist on the track).

 

For some time, BMW road cars were considered to have achieved perhaps the best balance between these two competing objectives. Dunno about current models.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

The thing about BMW, is that they have different models that have different road manners. A normal 3 Series may have a modicum of road holding while giving a fairly comfortable ride, but on the other hand, a 3 Series “M” models are more hard-core and they eschew the softer ride. They also are much faster on road or track when driven for performance. Porsche does something similar. A 911 S spec is a good handling, fairly comfortable road car, a 911 GT 2, and 3, are not comfortable, they are race cars in various states of tune and cost as much as a Ferrari or Lamborghini,

 

O.T. Dunno if you remember the BMW 2002Ti introduced in the late 60's, a remarkable vehicle for its price. Car and Driver rated it the best sports sedan in the world for under $5,000.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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