AudioQuest DragonFly 24/96 Asynchronous USB DAC / Headphone Amp

[Sam Lord]

...There are 107 components on a 0.6"x1.7" four layer board including a ton of regulators and expensive custom capacitors... ....Both the USB connector and the 3.5mm connector are custom one off pieces made with high audio grade silver contacts...

May I be the first to say wtf did you do with all the extra room?

 

Also given the shared negatives on headphone cords I would expect no benefit from the slick connectors, but that's AQ's call.

 

I wonder what your design was*, I'll research it. The main point is I'm awed by your design ability, this device is by any standard amazing.

 

*minimum-phase or not, etc.

[Sam Lord]

... I would expect no benefit from the slick connectors, but that's AQ's call.

Doh! You can go differential from the jack, never mind.

[HiFiInsider]

The sound is very fast and clean. Bass is tight. It's the BEST sounding portable dec/amp I own and tried. Sound wise, it's worth the money, but not features.

[Jud]

The sound is very fast and clean. Bass is tight. It's the BEST sounding portable dec/amp I own and tried. Sound wise, it's worth the money, but not features.

 

To me, the analog volume control in a tiny package and the ability to go everywhere are important features. There were all sorts of venues - cars, planes, hotels, friends' homes - where this level of sound quality was formerly impractical, and now it's easily possible.

[Paul R]

I don't know, the portability, analog volume control, compatibility across Macs, Linux, Windows, and even some portable devices, as well as the very good sound quality definitely makes it worth the $250 to me. Just being able to listen at work to really good sounding music is amazing indeed.

 

-Paul

[wgscott]

The sound is very fast and clean. Bass is tight. It's the BEST sounding portable dec/amp I own and tried. Sound wise, it's worth the money, but not features.

 

It has only the "features" I want, i.e., analogue volume, 24/96 competency, and integer-capability. For my Audioengine A2 speakers, the quality is in fact over-kill. But it is nice that the DAC is not the limiting entity.

[realhifi]

Works and sounds great with one caveat, it will only play 16/44.1 unless you use it with a USB powered hub. So, straight out of USB on Squeezebox Touch it will play back your Redbook rips and of course anything that you stream from MOG, Pandora, etc. and play them back well but no dice on 24/96....yet. I have not tried it with a USB hub but will at some point but it sort of defeats the purpose of the simplicity of the tandem.

 

Yes, it sounds better than stock analog out and for a lot of folks I can see the combo being a GREAT little new age tuner and file player.

[Sumflow]

as well as the very good sound quality definitely

Yes Paul but how does the sound compare to the Proton in your living room?

[Paul R]

Yes Paul but how does the sound compare to the Proton in your living room?

 

It has a family resemblance, even give the different DAC chips.

[Paul R]

Works and sounds great with one caveat, it will only play 16/44.1 unless you use it with a USB powered hub. So, straight out of USB on Squeezebox Touch it will play back your Redbook rips and of course anything that you stream from MOG, Pandora, etc. and play them back well but no dice on 24/96....yet. I have not tried it with a USB hub but will at some point but it sort of defeats the purpose of the simplicity of the tandem.

 

Yes, it sounds better than stock analog out and for a lot of folks I can see the combo being a GREAT little new age tuner and file player.

 

I didn't have any trouble getting it to play 24/96 from a SBT, but I did get clicks and pops, so I put a little hub between them and it worked just fine. I wonder why it did not work for you?

 

Yeah, that is actually what I am thinking it is is a perfect fit for - SBT + Dragonfly = $500 Music Player with very very good quality.

 

-Paul

[Ba Dan]

Yes this will work with Linux...

Does the DragonFly interwork with the (Linux) Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy S III?

 

The Samsung Galaxy S III can interwork with the bus-powered Objective DAC (ODAC) without using a self-powered USB hub.

NwAvGuy's ODAC + Samsung Galaxy S3 dmesg output - Pastebin.com

 

 

[realhifi]

I didn't have any trouble getting it to play 24/96 from a SBT, but I did get clicks and pops, so I put a little hub between them and it worked just fine. I wonder why it did not work for you?

 

Yeah, that is actually what I am thinking it is is a perfect fit for - SBT + Dragonfly = $500 Music Player with very very good quality.

 

-Paul

 

To me "worked" means that it does without the clicks and pops. I didn't have a USB hub to try with it but I will do that soon so that I can try the 24/96 again. For $500, you can't beat it.

 

Now it aint a Linn....*s*

[brandall10]

Hi Everyone,

 

Long time lurker, I'm bobeau from Head-fi. Decided to sign up because of this thread has some good discussion, Gordon has stopped by a few times, etc.

 

I know it's been asked in this thread already, but I'm going to ask again - anyone have an idea what the output impedance of this thing is? Saying that it's spec'ed to work with phones down to 12 ohms isn't particularly helpful. There's a difference between simply doing the job and being ideal.

 

My take after owning one for a few days is that it is rather high, perhaps the typical 10 ohms found in consumer oriented devices designed to drive a wide range of headphones.

 

I bought this primarily to work with Yamaha EPH-100s (16 ohms), which sound absolutely lovely out of my O2/ODAC combo and thought if this could compete on that level it would be a blessing as it would be the ultimate portable solution.

 

Unfortunately I'm getting a vibe with the Dragonfly headphone out that leads me to believe the sound is overdamped... it's somewhat bloated in the low end, snare drums don't have a snap, the pluck of bass strings are lost in the mix, treble seems rolled off, etc. My O2 and E17 (both sub 1 ohm output impedance) completely lack this character. In fact I actually prefer the lowly E17 to this. But I find the Dragonfly driving the O2 to be my actual favorite setup.

 

Perhaps this is just a burn-in thing? Not a huge believer in that esp for a device such as this with tiny surface mounted electronics, but it has about 10 hours on it and I'm not sure if things are improving.

[Sumflow]

Welcome bobeau ~ San Diego, I recognize the name. .."this is a 24 bit Sabre chip (9023), .. is relatively power and cost efficient."

[brandall10]

Welcome bobeau ~ San Diego, I recognize the name. .."this is a 24 bit Sabre chip (9023), .. is relatively power and cost efficient."

 

Thank you, that is me People with higher impedance IEMs (30+) probably don't hear this to the same degree. If things don't improve with this guy I'll probably be returning it and hold out hope for a device specifically targeted for low impedance IEMs/headphones, as I've seen mentioned Audioquest will be releasing several devices like this in the coming months.

[HiFiInsider]

I like a little more balls from the headphones out.

 

Anyone has news on the DragonTail?

[brandall10]

I like a little more balls from the headphones out.

 

Anyone has news on the DragonTail?

 

I don't know... I feel my O2 has just as much bass and it hits harder - with my particular 16 ohm iems. The Dragonfly is a bit loose sounding by comparison. When people talk about how it sounds great with IEMs because it's hiss free, upping the output impedance is one way to achieve that.

 

Again, I could totally be wrong on this and it has < 2ohm and this is some sort of burn-in issue. I'll let it continue to run-in in hoping that's the case. It would be nice though to actually get some confirmation on this.

[brandall10]

Went ahead and sent mine back, just not the sound I was hoping for for my specific use case, actually prefer the headphone out from my Macbook Air; which surprised me, but when doing some digging Voldemort has a detailed analysis of a 2k10 MBA headphone out it's the best he's measured in a laptop, perhaps my 2k12 is even be better. Sounds pretty ho-hum with regular sized cans but quite nice with my 16 ohm EPH-100s. The O2/ODAC combo is better but not for the sake of convenience, and I have a feeling the DF would be a best if it had a low output impedance, as the DF -> O2 -> EPH-100 is divine. Oh well, perhaps in a future iteration of this device.

 

In any case the main reason for the update is someone from Head-fi measured this, not sure how this varies with load:

 

Actually the output impedance is 4.6 Ohms

 

Load Used: 49.9Ohms

Unloaded: 2.098 Vrms

Loaded: 1.921 Vrms

Measured using my Fluke TrueRMS MM

[Wavelength]

Brandal,

 

The output impedance of the DragonFly is 0.8 ohms max.

 

You cannot determine this low of output impedance using a fluke meter!

 

Guys really????

 

Thanks

Gordon

[brandall10]

Brandal,

 

The output impedance of the DragonFly is 0.8 ohms max.

 

You cannot determine this low of output impedance using a fluke meter!

 

Guys really????

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

Hi Gordon,

 

That's great to know and thank you for clarifying. But someone asked earlier and no answer was provided, this is not listed in any spec, so you can't fault someone for taking the initiative to find out. I went so far as to contact AudioQuest technical support, then talked to Steve Silberman, etc, and no one seemed to want to divulge this information. Audiophiles find this stuff important... a sub 1 ohm output impedance is fantastic, that sorta spec should be published.

 

That said, the device out of box the sounds overly warm to me in my situation with 16 ohm IEMs but sounded great with my full-size cans so I don't know what to make of it... perhaps a proper burn-in would have been in order. I'll probably pick one up again down the road after further impressions roll in.

 

Cheers. - Beau

[HiFiInsider]

Anyone know how many mW the headphones amp outputs?

[HiFiInsider]

Can Gordon or some please chime in on this?

 

My OCD tells me I will wear out the output jack if I plug and unplug the jack frequently. Since the DF can not be disassembled with screws to replace the jack, Is this a real concern?

[Wavelength]

Can Gordon or some please chime in on this?

 

My OCD tells me I will wear out the output jack if I plug and unplug the jack frequently. Since the DF can not be disassembled with screws to replace the jack, Is this a real concern?

 

Guys don't over think this. The DF connectors were made special just for the this reason. These are not off the shelf connectors they were specified by the AudioQuest team and are a significant upgrade.

 

Thanks

Gordon

[HiFiInsider]

Thank you Gordon for easing my concerns. I guess my experiences with lessor quality connectors that had channel balance & static noise issues fed my OCD.

 

Does Audioquest offer repairs on the DF if ever needed?

[brandall10]

So apologies to Gordon, our man at Head-fi found an error in his method which I'll repost:

 

MEA CULPA! (MY FAULT)

 

Hello guys.

I have to apologize for my measurment regarding the DF impedance output, yes I was wrong .

I've been reading a lot over the past days and today I discovered that my methodology was not 100% correct. Gonna explain. I was measuring the open circuit at its maximum Rms voltage and then loading it using a selected resistence. Here lies the problem, this works for amplifiers that are designed to be loaded using a specific impedance (lets say 8 Ohms). Heaphone amplifiers are designed to work in a impedance range.. see the problem?

 

So, lets for example use the JH16 pro specs to recalculate the DF output impedance:

Imput sensitivity: 118dB/1mW

Impedance: 18 Ohms

 

Using 110dB (really loud) as my reference @ 1KHz 0dBfs, I would need about 0.4Vrms to drive the JH16pro at 110dB levels. This math is accomplished by: Vrms = Antilog ( ( "how loud" – "imput sensitivity") / 20 )

 

So, I got the DF and adjusted its volume to about 0.404 Vrms in open circuit, and loaded it using a 17.9R, and as result got 0.400 Vrms.

Here is the math:

 

Zsource = Rload x ((Vo/Vl)-1)

Using the values I got 0.18 Ohms

 

Yes, thats correct 0.18 Ohms !

 

I repeated the same process for all the amps I had laying around, and Ive got almost the same measurement as stated in the specs.

 

So, if it not sounds good using high-sens. iems/ low impedance, it must be for another reason than output impedance.