AudioQuest DragonFly 24/96 Asynchronous USB DAC / Headphone Amp

[Mike Rubin]

I haven't tried the Focuses with anything other than the Dragonfly as they arrived after I received the Dragonfly and I just hooked them up and started to burn them in. I could try them with the Creative soundcard or I could cannibalize a Musicstreamer II from my other desktop system. I do suspect the culprits here are the Focuses, not the Dragonfly, as more educated ears than mine have universally praised the latter.

[junker]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm new to this forum and this is my very first post. I decided to use the DragonFly as my first foray into high quality digital sources. It just came in from Crutchfield today and I'm looking forward to driving this DAC with an old MacBook Pro that I use as a media server. The MBP pulls files locally and from a 2TB TimeCapsule. It's not the best system at all, and my next big project is to set up a Drobo NAS.

 

Before the DragonFly arrived I already ordered a $5 6-inch USB MediaBridge "DragonTail", and a $5 Cables2Go mini to RCA adapter that is then going to 1.5m of Kimber Hero, and then on to a Rotel Integrated Amp. I feel the DF is pretty well connected at this point. It shouldn't put too much stress on the MCP USB port, will protect the USB connection and mini connections on the Dragon, while allowing me to use a nice unbalanced RCA cable to my amp. Not sure how much of a negative effect the mini adapter will have on the signa, but if I notice an issues I'll just go and pick up a Cu Kimber Kable.

 

Kimber GQ Mini Cu

 

Currently listening to the Rotel on some 15 year old Paradigm 2-ways through Kimber 4TC, but will be pulling out the Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures, early next year driven by a McIntosh MC452.

 

USB Adapter

 

mini<->RCA Adapter

 

Kimber Hero

 

Thanks for the helpful posts in this thread so far!

 

[burnspbesq]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm new to this forum and this is my very first post. I decided to use the DragonFly as my first foray into high quality digital sources. It just came in from Crutchfield today and I'm looking forward to driving this DAC with an old MacBook Pro that I use as a media server. The MBP pulls files locally and from a 2TB TimeCapsule. It's not the best system at all, and my next big project is to set up a Drobo NAS.

 

Before the DragonFly arrived I already ordered a $5 6-inch USB MediaBridge "DragonTail", and a $5 Cables2Go mini to RCA adapter that is then going to 1.5m of Kimber Hero, and then on to a Rotel Integrated Amp. I feel the DF is pretty well connected at this point. It shouldn't put too much stress on the MCP USB port, will protect the USB connection and mini connections on the Dragon, while allowing me to use a nice unbalanced RCA cable to my amp. Not sure how much of a negative effect the mini adapter will have on the signa, but if I notice an issues I'll just go and pick up a Cu Kimber Kable.

 

Kimber GQ Mini Cu

 

Currently listening to the Rotel on some 15 year old Paradigm 2-ways through Kimber 4TC, but will be pulling out the Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures, early next year driven by a McIntosh MC452.

 

USB Adapter

 

mini<->RCA Adapter

 

Kimber Hero

 

Thanks for the helpful posts in this thread so far!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2418[/ATTACH]

 

Looking forward to reading your impressions.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Welcome to CA Junker :~)

[vm8444]

Guys what do you think is wrong is there a setting for audio out on iPad?

 

 

cck to USB to powered hub

dac into hub then 3.5 mm plugged into headphone side of dac

 

 

 

 

just sound from iPad

 

 

pc usb input works great

[junker]

Well, as much as I was hoping this solution would work for me, the DragonFly will be getting sent back tomorrow.

 

I love the concept, and the implementation. Very minimalist and extremely well constructed. The color coded LED based on sampling rate is as elegant, as it is effective. It also has all of the technology buzzwords that you could look for. It's asynchronous, low-jitter, can be used as an headphone amp, or for line-level. And it's portable, if you should need that.

 

I was hoping this product would suffice, at least until I can buy the amplifier that's on my Christmas wish list, and then I could see if it was still sufficient. I have a problem spending $5k on a DA converter vs something like amps or speakers. DA converters are in many ways only wholly subject to Moore's Law, whose performance/price value proposition is sure to improve very rapidly now that listeners of digital music are beginning to demand more than Dr. Dre Headphones.

 

The DragonFly is significant IMO for that very reason. A respectable, and portable DA, that makes high-resolution content available, with asynchronous USB and a high-quality DA converter, all for only $250. I really dislike how this product is positioned by the hi-fi cognizenti, as a bridge product, and something possibly accessible to the proletariat masses, and certainly better the the sweet audio nectar that they have previously had access to in their Cro-Magnon audio man-caves. Why do you need more than one light? How many inputs do you really need? Does it need to be rack mountable? Hogwash. These are the people that probably used to use green markers on their discs. It's got to cost a small fortune to sound great, right? The miniaturization, performance, and ease-of-use of digital audio will continue to move forward, and the DragonFly is significant for that reason. It is a glimpse of audio-future.

 

And for what it is, it is really quite impressive, but unfortunately, not the product that I am looking for. I've been rediscovering a lot of my older listening material as I rip to Apple Lossless and prepare for a Drobo NAS. So, as it was getting late I decided to do some A/B testing. Everything has been used for a few days and should be properly burned in.

 

What I found was that the DF did add some clarity to the material, helping separate individual components of the composition. Vocals, and notes seems to be more focused in time time and space. Subtle, but definitely an improvement. But, in every case I felt something was missing, and when I went back to the mini out of the MacBook Pro, there is was. The DragonFly was just lacking in the lower frequencies. Hi-Rez Louis Armstrong shouldn't sound wispy. Clear and open, but wispy. Hmm, was it the recording? Nope, The Cure, "Fascination Street" (extended) also sounded anemic. Then, after noticing the same thing with Gotan Project on Tango, I just couldn't get around it no matter how clear it was. I switched between Kimber Timbre and the Hero. Wondered if maybe it was the mini adapter, but decided the MBP sounded fine. Tried different players (I like Decibel BTW over Amarra), and kept wanting to turn up the bass with the Rotel every time I switched back to the DragonFly.

 

I also checked the noise floor using the built-in input and the DF. Both the MBP output and DF have a lot of digital noise coming through the ground on the left USB port when scrolling menus. The DF was very quiet out of the right USB port, so that is definitely the one I'll use when I try something else. My only real issue with the DragonFly is that it sounds anemic compared to the built-in input, which affected my involvement and revealed the source as digital regardless if it's clarity and improved focus. My only guess is that even though it is still a 2v output and it has roughly the same apparent volume at the same pre-amp position, the amplifier is lacking for whatever reason (current?) in the lower registers and that is a deal breaker for me.

 

So, my current game plan it to buy the amp of my dreams, and then either look at pre-Amps with built-in DAC's (including the matched McIntosh amps), and/or try to find another dedicated DAC in the <$1k price range. I have an issue with spending more than on a component that ages in dog years.

 

Hoping it will be a DragonFly 2!

 

-Junker

 

Hello everyone!

 

I'm new to this forum and this is my very first post. I decided to use the DragonFly as my first foray into high quality digital sources. It just came in from Crutchfield today and I'm looking forward to driving this DAC with an old MacBook Pro that I use as a media server. The MBP pulls files locally and from a 2TB TimeCapsule. It's not the best system at all, and my next big project is to set up a Drobo NAS.

 

Before the DragonFly arrived I already ordered a $5 6-inch USB MediaBridge "DragonTail", and a $5 Cables2Go mini to RCA adapter that is then going to 1.5m of Kimber Hero, and then on to a Rotel Integrated Amp. I feel the DF is pretty well connected at this point. It shouldn't put too much stress on the MCP USB port, will protect the USB connection and mini connections on the Dragon, while allowing me to use a nice unbalanced RCA cable to my amp. Not sure how much of a negative effect the mini adapter will have on the signa, but if I notice an issues I'll just go and pick up a Cu Kimber Kable.

 

Kimber GQ Mini Cu

 

Currently listening to the Rotel on some 15 year old Paradigm 2-ways through Kimber 4TC, but will be pulling out the Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures, early next year driven by a McIntosh MC452.

 

USB Adapter

 

mini<->RCA Adapter

 

Kimber Hero

 

Thanks for the helpful posts in this thread so far!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2418[/ATTACH]

[jhwalker]

Well, as much as I was hoping this solution would work for me, the DragonFly will be getting sent back tomorrow.

. . .

What I found was that the DF did add some clarity to the material, helping separate individual components of the composition. Vocals, and notes seems to be more focused in time time and space. Subtle, but definitely an improvement. But, in every case I felt something was missing, and when I went back to the mini out of the MacBook Pro, there is was. The DragonFly was just lacking in the lower frequencies. Hi-Rez Louis Armstrong shouldn't sound wispy. Clear and open, but wispy. Hmm, was it the recording? Nope, The Cure, "Fascination Street" (extended) also sounded anemic. Then, after noticing the same thing with Gotan Project on Tango, I just couldn't get around it no matter how clear it was. I switched between Kimber Timbre and the Hero. Wondered if maybe it was the mini adapter, but decided the MBP sounded fine. Tried different players (I like Decibel BTW over Amarra), and kept wanting to turn up the bass with the Rotel every time I switched back to the DragonFly.

. . .

-Junker

 

Wow - just goes to show you how different devices can sound in different systems! The biggest improvement I found using the DragonFly (vs. any of my other alternatives) was the powerful, controlled bass

 

Sorry the DragonFly didn't work out for you - I like mine so much, I'm plugging it into my main system when I'm home, and taking it with me when I travel!

[vm8444]

I echo jh sentiments

On this.

 

Different equipment should somewhat alter the sound ,

Speakers then amp are key players when bass is concerned.

[junker]

I've had the Rotel for since 2005 and the Paradigms since the early 90's, so I am familiar with their sound. And the MacBook Pro has much more authority than the DragonFly the way I have it wired.

 

You guys make me want to go buy the Kimber Cable and ditch the adapter. I'll hold off on sending the DF back and maybe give the cable a shot...

[vm8444]

I'm an installer too last Friday I installed monitor'9s by paradigm

In a home Theater.

Gotta say with a older Onkyo it was screaming for a sub.

 

Lower bass surely lacking.

Once sub was added it was fine.

[junker]

Okay, pulled out a cheap-o mini to RCA cable and will be comparing that without the adapter to the built-in output on the MacBook Pro.

 

Initial impression is that Gotan Tango 3.0 sounds pretty decent. I'll update once I have a better chance to compare without the adapter before buying a nice cable...

[Snowmonkey]

I know it's a bit of a heresy around here, but I've been using a Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard that I installed when I built my computer in 2006 (the market in external DAC's was less developed in those days). I thought I'd give the Dragonfly a try and the local audio shop assured me I would notice a big improvement over my soundcard with the Dragonfly. Well, I keep comparing them and I have to say I still prefer the Soundblaster. By comparison, the DF seems to roll off a bit in the treble, though it sounds a bit richer in the midtones. The Soundblaster sounds more transparent, with a better developed soundstage. I'm still happy with the DF, at the price, and it has found a home with my netbook and Sennheiser HD600's but I won't be using it replace my soundcard in my main system.

[Mike Rubin]

I know it's a bit of a heresy around here, but I've been using a Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard that I installed when I built my computer in 2006 (the market in external DAC's was less developed in those days). I thought I'd give the Dragonfly a try and the local audio shop assured me I would notice a big improvement over my soundcard with the Dragonfly. Well, I keep comparing them and I have to say I still prefer the Soundblaster. By comparison, the DF seems to roll off a bit in the treble, though it sounds a bit richer in the midtones. The Soundblaster sounds more transparent, with a better developed soundstage. I'm still happy with the DF, at the price, and it has found a home with my netbook and Sennheiser HD600's but I won't be using it replace my soundcard in my main system.

 

Interesting to me that you've posted this. See my own post #272, above.

 

You and I have the same soundcard. I made the point that the combination of the Dragonfly and my new Focal XS Book did not seem to me to offer more than my previous combination of that soundcard and Monitor Audio iDecks by any parameter I considered important. I am not sure that mine still is working -- it was because my system went silent to both the onboard speakers and the Monitor speakers that I thought the soundcard had died and bought the DF -- but, once I got the DF, I confirmed that the Monitor Audio amp had blown. Now, based on what you post, I am tempted to troubleshoot the soundcard and, if it's still alive, see how it makes the Focals sound. I would have expected better SQ from technology that's a decade newer, so wasn't thinking about revisiting the soundcard, but you've made me curious to see if I can do a comparison.

[Snowmonkey]

I am tempted to troubleshoot the soundcard and, if it's still alive, see how it makes the Focals sound. I would have expected better SQ from technology that's a decade newer, so wasn't thinking about revisiting the soundcard, but you've made me curious to see if I can do a comparison.

I hope you do. I was surprised about how well the old soundcard compared with the Dragonfly. I would be interested to hear if another pair of ears agrees. Creative seems to have acquired a reputation for cheap, mediocre soundcards, but I think they excelled themselves with the X-fi Xtreme cards.

[Mike Rubin]

I've always wondered why people need to chime in with negative feedback considering how many positive owners of the dragonfly on this thread.

 

Such as useless bs poster above.,

 

synergy junker has a lot to with sound in audio when it comes to different components

Amps speakers cables etc.,not to mention what one person hears the other may not like.

 

Some 5000 dollar speakers sound like shit with certain components downstream in the system.

 

 

 

A lot of people rave here why rain on everyone's parade?

 

theaudioguy.ca

 

Nobody is raining on anyone's parade. As you point out, people have different setups and different ears. It's worth having different opinions posted; if most are positive people would get the idea quickly that most people would be happy with the product and will discount the few skeptics.

 

If only positive opinions were welcome on a forum, who would need the forum? There's plenty of advertising out there that should get the kumbaya message across quite adequately, thank you.

[junker]

In order to keep our thread constructive and helpful I just wanted to give everyone an update on my review.

 

The next day or so after evaluating the DF as described above, my impression of the sound quality was improved. This was a day or two after initially using the product, and after removing the RCA adapter. So, my main questions at this point are: 1) does the adapter degrade the output signal; 2) does this product benefit for break-in, and if so, how long does this take and how much effect can be expected?

 

Because of my positive impression after removing the adapter and switching to a cheap cable I ordered a 1.5m run of Kimber GQ Mini Cu which should be here early next week. I'll definitely update my review when I have a chance to run this straight cable into my integrated amp. I'm also having my speaker wire reterminated in a bi-wire configuration using WBT terminals.

 

With regards to "synergy", if you've bothered reading my reviews you will see that I am being be throrough with regards to what adapters and cables I am using for my evaluation (Tibre, Hero, basic, with and without an adapter, and now with the GQ). I've also indicated my interest in cycling out the Paradigms for my set of Vandersteen's, and using a McIntosh MC452 instead of the integrated Rotel. As a college science professor and researcher I greatly enjoy the research and discovery, as well as the pleasure of music.

 

Currently, my biggest questions are regarding the impact and extent of break-in, and the best way to wire up this DA in a home stereo system, rather than in a headphone environment. So, definitely chime in if any of you noticed any changes during the break-in process! I'd love to be able to help other forum members with the best way to incorporate this exciting and novel product into their set-ups and to realistically understand its capabilities and limitations.

 

I'm incredibly excited to bypass a pre-amp altogether and try to run the MacBook Pro with the DragonFly directly into the MC452...at least until I can bring in a matched McIntosh pre-amp.

 

Definitely, keep us up-to-date on all of your experiences with this product whether positive or negative, and what you've learned in the process. That is the essence and beauty of the Computer Audiophile forum, and what can be of the most benefit to everyone.

[wgscott]

You're a college science professor and researcher and you are asking about burn-in?

 

I suspect the adaptor is the more likely explanation.

[Snowmonkey]

You're a college science professor and researcher and you are asking about burn-in?

 

I suspect the adaptor is the more likely explanation.

 

I don't think he's asking about burn-in so much as wondering about it. That's what you would expect a scientist to do - look at the possible explanations for a finding, then critically examine each one.

[junker]

Exactly. I'm trying to understand to what extent burn-in and/or the interconnect adapter might be playing a role in my initial impression on this DAC.

 

My feeling is that the adapter is most likely contributor, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if its sound quality changed slightly over the first couple days. Art Dudley also mentions this in his Stereophile review:

 

"Listening

Although the DragonFly's performance gained some textural refinement during the review sample's first few weeks in my system, its performance was very engaging from the start."

Very interested in doing the A/B comparison between this new cable and the MacBook Pro output. Cheers.

 

I suspect the adaptor is the more likely explanation.

 

I don't think he's asking about burn-in so much as wondering about it. That's what you would expect a scientist to do - look at the possible explanations for a finding, then critically examine each one.

[vm8444]

Junker I'm not sure about your query regarding using your aq Df in a home stereo environment.

 

Though

regarding burn in yes for cables not as drastic an improvement to say quite noticeable compared to speakers.

 

I recently upgraded to signal cable power cable for my projector and its been 2 months my pj has never looked better.

 

Your question about using your aq Df in a stereo system not headphone are you talking about just hooking up headphone connector to back of aq Df?

other end to amp?

From laptop?

 

theaudioguy.ca

[burnspbesq]

2) does this product benefit for break-in, and if so, how long does this take and how much effect can be expected?

 

I haven't noticed much difference, but (1) I gave mine 48 hours of burn-in before I ever listened to it, and (2) I liked it a lot immediately after that.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - Just published my review of the DF.

 

Computer Audiophile - AudioQuest DragonFly Review

[Snowmonkey]

Well I'm convinced the Dragonfly benefits greatly from break-in. When I got mine about a week ago, it was not performing quite as well as my Soundblaster X-fi Xtreme Music soundcard. After a week of heavy use, I compared them again, using blind A/B testing (my wife randomly switching inputs) and the Dragonfly is now clearly the better performer. It seems to have gained in warmth and the soundstage is wider and more open.

[junker]

I absolutely agree with you... Over 1-2 weeks the sound seems to have rounded out quite a bit and gained some balls. I'm playing with a few things so I didn't want to go on the record with some of the "defensive" members here at CA, but yeah this seems to definitely be the case for me.

 

Upgraded my wall socket and am waiting for a decent power cord to replace the POS stock cord that came with the Rotel that basically wants to fall out. Once the cord is in I want to A/B test vs. the mini output on my new SSD Mac Mini that I will be using for a media server off of a Drobo NAS.

 

Also, I'd like to run both sources into the amp section of the rotel by-passing the pre-amp section altogether. That is definitely one nice thing about the DragonFly - can use line level or just go directly into an amp!

[Mel Hi ReZ]

JHWALKER - can you please specify which USB Powered Hub you are using for the iPad - Dragonfly connection? I know that there are many generic ones that can work, but I had issues with my trusty Tekkeon MP 1860 - it did not work and I got the error message in my iPad3 that the device I'm connecting to requires too much power.

 

I am currently using the following configuration with my Centrance DACPort with no issues:

iPad -> CCK -> Tekkeon TekCharge MP1860A USB -> Centrance DAC Port -> Miles Davis Trumpet headphones

 

When I switched the DAC Port for the DragonFly I got the not enough power error message, and the music plays on the iPad speakers instead of the headphones through the DAC.

 

I bought the DragonFly this week due to the great recent reviews which rate it higher than the DACPort, and because it would require one less cable connection compared to the DACPort (which requires a mini USB cable from the USB hub)

 

Help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

I received the DragonFly DAC yesterday and have been running it through its paces in the following configurations:

 

 

• MacBook Pro 2.0 USB > Audirvana Plus Beta (integrated with iTunes) > DragonFly > VSonic GR07 IEMs
  
• Windows laptop 2.0 USB > Foobar2000 (WASAPI, event driven) > DragonFly > VSonic GR07 IEMs
  
• iPad (3) > CCK > powered hub > DragonFly > VSonic GR07 IEMs
  
• iPad (3) > CCK > powered hub > DragonFly > foxL v2 powered mini speaker (via mini-RCA)
  

 

Works great under each of these and sounds wonderful. Clear and powerful, deep "black" background when not playing, etc.

 

I was particularly interested in testing if it would work connected to a powered hub for iPad use via CCK, which it did perfectly out to my foxL portable speaker. All rates (up to 24 / 96) supported transparently. This will be nice when traveling (headed out for a two week trip this weekend) and want to listen in my hotel room

 

First time working with foobar2000 (for the Windows laptop), so some work required there - had to add a SOX resampler into the DSP chain for the few files that need to be down sampled on the fly to get to 88.2 or 96, and upgraded to the latest beta of the WASAPI output component due to a couple of playback glitches (momentary pauses / skips) in the music with the current production version. But the current beta (version 3, beta 5) in event mode works a treat (buffer at 50ms).

 

All in all, very pleased with the device and sound I'm getting.

 

Only drawback (for me) is the form factor, in that I really needed an angled / adjustable USB adapter for both Mac and Windows laptops because I don't like any USB device (thumb drive, etc.) sticking straight out from the side of the laptop - too precarious. But I bought a couple of adjustable adapters that let me run the device sideways along the side of each laptop, so good for now