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AudioQuest DragonFly 24/96 Asynchronous USB DAC / Headphone Amp


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So apologies to Gordon, our man at Head-fi found an error in his method which I'll repost:

 

MEA CULPA! (MY FAULT)

 

Hello guys.

I have to apologize for my measurment regarding the DF impedance output, yes I was wrong triportsad.gif.

I've been reading a lot over the past days and today I discovered that my methodology was not 100% correct. Gonna explain. I was measuring the open circuit at its maximum Rms voltage and then loading it using a selected resistence. Here lies the problem, this works for amplifiers that are designed to be loaded using a specific impedance (lets say 8 Ohms). Heaphone amplifiers are designed to work in a impedance range.. see the problem?

 

So, lets for example use the JH16 pro specs to recalculate the DF output impedance:

Imput sensitivity: 118dB/1mW

Impedance: 18 Ohms

 

Using 110dB (really loud) as my reference @ 1KHz 0dBfs, I would need about 0.4Vrms to drive the JH16pro at 110dB levels. This math is accomplished by: Vrms = Antilog ( ( "how loud" – "imput sensitivity") / 20 )

 

So, I got the DF and adjusted its volume to about 0.404 Vrms in open circuit, and loaded it using a 17.9R, and as result got 0.400 Vrms.

Here is the math:

 

Zsource = Rload x ((Vo/Vl)-1)

Using the values I got 0.18 Ohms

 

Yes, thats correct 0.18 Ohms !

 

I repeated the same process for all the amps I had laying around, and Ive got almost the same measurement as stated in the specs.

 

So, if it not sounds good using high-sens. iems/ low impedance, it must be for another reason than output impedance.

 

Brandall,

 

I appreciate the response but this is still not the correct impedance or method for calculating the output impedance. As I stated above the output impedance is 0.8 ohms max (Prism dScope III) . John Atkinson tested this as well and came up with 0.65 ohms (AP27xx).

 

While there are methods to test the impedance using a DVM at one frequency, the above method is not correct, nor is your original one for tube amps. So the value you calculated at 0.18 is NOT correct.

 

Also do note that headphones do not load at the same frequencies anyways. So really folks, best bet is try it and see because this is all about taste and with headphones it's more so than with full systems.

 

Thanks

Gordon

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Brandall,

 

I appreciate the response but this is still not the correct impedance or method for calculating the output impedance. As I stated above the output impedance is 0.8 ohms max (Prism dScope III) . John Atkinson tested this as well and came up with 0.65 ohms (AP27xx).

 

While there are methods to test the impedance using a DVM at one frequency, the above method is not correct, nor is your original one for tube amps. So the value you calculated at 0.18 is NOT correct.

 

Also do note that headphones do not load at the same frequencies anyways. So really folks, best bet is try it and see because this is all about taste and with headphones it's more so than with full systems.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

Thanks for the response Gordon. Just to be clear, I didn't do this measurement, it was another member from Head-fi. Just passing it along.

 

Cheers. - Beau

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]1559[/ATTACH]Misinformation

 

Anyone can hop over to Head-fi and see that member Chefano took the initial measurements at the request of the community, and then the later as an attempt at a correction. Even though his methods were wrong at least he posted how he arrived at his figures so he could be properly corrected; everyone who got to witness this learned something about the process and now they that confidence that they are buying a headphone DAC/amp with a very low output impedance, which as Gordon says is just one factor but something that people with low impedance cans find important.

 

Now this:

 

=The Dragonfly does not have a headphone amplifier.

 

That's a blanket statement that looking at the product page for the unit can be quickly see as untrue. Yet no one freaked out, you were simply corrected. Why? Because it's not a big deal. You learn and move on.

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BTW, also want to give major props to Gordon and Audioquest for creating a device like this and putting it out at a value price... it's a godsend for minimalist road warriors like myself who prior to this had to rely on outboard devices to kick things up a notch. The async implementation, the DAC performance, the driving capability, and low power consumption (seeing about an 8-9% hit on the battery on my very power thrifty 11" MBA), just fantastic. If the warm push I'm detecting clears up with extensive burn-in spectacular. If not I'm sure I'll find the right IEM to send me to pure audio nirvana, and find it I will. If I or others are skeptical of this or that trust me when I say it's because we care, we want something like this and the promise it holds badly.

 

This is a game changer and I saw that Steve Silberman said on another forum this is the first of several devices AQ will be producing of this ilk. Thanks for pushing things forward guys.

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  • 2 weeks later...
USB allows volume conditioning directly which is used here. This means the volume control is part of the system wide volume control located on the system tool bar and NOT in the application.
dragonfly_silk_painting_poster_print-r393c7094e451498dac1be0efc07dfd76_on2_152.jpgThis is where I see confusion. Gordon says use the system wide volume control, but AudioQuest says use iTunes.
Adjusting volume level:...When using DragonFly in this “variable output mode,” we recommend setting the computer’s main volume control to full, and turning down the music player’s (iTunes is an example of a music player) volume to 25% or less of the maximum output, in order not to damage either equipment or your ears, then adjust as desired. When used in this way, DragonFly’s onboard 64-position analog-domain volume control is able to preserve full resolution and maximum sound quality.

 

Also why 64-position?

 

http://www.musicdirect.com/documents/pdf/AAQDRAGONFLY.pdf

The Driver smiled when he lost his pursuer...

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Surely the method described by Audioquest is wrong? iTunes volume should be at maximum, and then you adjust with the variable output mode with the main volume control.

 

I used the volume in Amarra Junior to vary the volume and didn't hear anything untoward.

 

BTW, it's got ample power to drive LCD-3s as loud as you'd ever want them.

Office: MacBook Pro - Audirvana Plus - Resonessence Concero - Cavailli Liquid Carbon - Sennheiser HD 800.

Travel/Portable: iPhone 7 or iPad Pro - AudioQuest Dragonfly Red - Audeze SINE or Noble Savant

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BTW, also want to give major props to Gordon and Audioquest for creating a device like this and putting it out at a value price... it's a godsend for minimalist road warriors like myself who prior to this had to rely on outboard devices to kick things up a notch. The async implementation, the DAC performance, the driving capability, and low power consumption (seeing about an 8-9% hit on the battery on my very power thrifty 11" MBA), just fantastic. If the warm push I'm detecting clears up with extensive burn-in spectacular. If not I'm sure I'll find the right IEM to send me to pure audio nirvana, and find it I will. If I or others are skeptical of this or that trust me when I say it's because we care, we want something like this and the promise it holds badly.

 

This is a game changer and I saw that Steve Silberman said on another forum this is the first of several devices AQ will be producing of this ilk. Thanks for pushing things forward guys.

 

 

Good post, Brandali.

 

I've owned and used a Dragonfly since the first week they shipped and I absolutely love it. I use it with a pair of Etymotic hf3s with Decibel, and occasionally, with Pure Music. I find it a major improvement over the built-in DAC in my MBP. Like HiFiGuy528, I take it with me everywhere in my laptop case; I use it at work or on the road, or at my local cafe, and for high-quality audiophile-level music on the go, it is a real breakthrough. My thanks to Gordon and AQ for quite an innovative product.

Digital: Mac Mini/Roon Core/Optical Module->long run of fiber->EtherREGEN->SOtM UltraNeo->Schiit Gumby DAC. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet/Alpha USB Amplification: First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 preamp, LP70S amp Speakers: Harbeth 30.2/Power/Cables: Shunyata Everest 8000, Shunyata Sigma XC and NR, Alpha XC and NR, & Venom 14 Digital PCs, Alpha V2 ICs and SPs.  

 

 

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Surely the method described by Audioquest is wrong? iTunes volume should be at maximum, and then you adjust with the variable output mode with the main volume control.

 

Yes, that is my understanding.

Digital: Mac Mini/Roon Core/Optical Module->long run of fiber->EtherREGEN->SOtM UltraNeo->Schiit Gumby DAC. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet/Alpha USB Amplification: First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 preamp, LP70S amp Speakers: Harbeth 30.2/Power/Cables: Shunyata Everest 8000, Shunyata Sigma XC and NR, Alpha XC and NR, & Venom 14 Digital PCs, Alpha V2 ICs and SPs.  

 

 

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Guys, one thing I can't seem to do with my Dragonfly is use it with Audirvana. Despite setting up the DF to be output in Audio Midi and Sound control panels, when using Audirvana and my Dragonfly on my MB Pro, sound only comes out of the built-in speakers, and not out of the Dragonfly. However, using the same Audio Midi and Sound control panel setting (output from the DF), I get music out of the DF using iTunes, Decibel or Pure Music.

 

I'm OSX Mountain Lion OS, BTW. Anyone have any ideas why the DF doesn't work with Audirvana?

Digital: Mac Mini/Roon Core/Optical Module->long run of fiber->EtherREGEN->SOtM UltraNeo->Schiit Gumby DAC. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet/Alpha USB Amplification: First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 preamp, LP70S amp Speakers: Harbeth 30.2/Power/Cables: Shunyata Everest 8000, Shunyata Sigma XC and NR, Alpha XC and NR, & Venom 14 Digital PCs, Alpha V2 ICs and SPs.  

 

 

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Guys, one thing I can't seem to do with my Dragonfly is use it with Audirvana. Despite setting up the DF to be output in Audio Midi and Sound control panels, when using Audirvana and my Dragonfly on my MB Pro, sound only comes out of the built-in speakers, and not out of the Dragonfly. However, using the same Audio Midi and Sound control panel setting (output from the DF), I get music out of the DF using iTunes, Decibel or Pure Music.

 

I'm OSX Mountain Lion OS, BTW. Anyone have any ideas why the DF doesn't work with Audirvana?

 

Because Audirvana ignores whatever you have set in Audio MIDI ;) You need to select the DF in Audirvana (Preferences | Audio System | Perferred Audio Device)

John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth

Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system

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I used the volume in Amarra Junior to vary the volume and didn't hear anything untoward.

 

BTW, it's got ample power to drive LCD-3s as loud as you'd ever want them.

 

Guys lets use some names... I hate answering directed posts to aliases.

 

You would be far better off to use the System Wide volume control which works in the analog domain. The Amara as well as other applications that don't effect the System Wide Volume control will be doing this in the digital domain which won't sound as good.

 

Correct, the DF volume control does not take effect in applications unless specifically stated that it is going to the hardware or system wide volume control.

 

Thanks

Gordon

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Because Audirvana ignores whatever you have set in Audio MIDI ;) You need to select the DF in Audirvana (Preferences | Audio System | Perferred Audio Device)

 

 

Thank you very much!

Digital: Mac Mini/Roon Core/Optical Module->long run of fiber->EtherREGEN->SOtM UltraNeo->Schiit Gumby DAC. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet/Alpha USB Amplification: First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 preamp, LP70S amp Speakers: Harbeth 30.2/Power/Cables: Shunyata Everest 8000, Shunyata Sigma XC and NR, Alpha XC and NR, & Venom 14 Digital PCs, Alpha V2 ICs and SPs.  

 

 

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Dragonfly is not supported on Vista.

 

I've been struggling with this for the past week or so, thinking i was doing something wrong. Here's the reply from AudioQuest (who have been very responsive, I should have started with them!)

Our experience thus far, is yes, Vista is the problem.

Just in the response from our developers:

 

This is a Vista issue. Not XP or 7. Gordon and I contacted the USB group at Microsoft. It turns out the group that writes the device driver for the volume control is a totally different group; meaning they don’t work together. The group writing the volume control/system control is too busy with 8 to work on Vista problems. So, for the meantime we will have a note on our FAQ page that says don’t use Vista. There’s nothing we can do about it.

 

Kind of frustrating, guess I'll have to upgrade to Win7.

The observed behavior is very low volume regardless of various system settings. I have read that it isn't possible to load RealTek drivers on IDT hardware but I might play with that as well.

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Long past time to upgrade to Win 7 on general principles. Vista is an absolute pig. 7's a whole lot better. For everything.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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dragonfly_silk_painting_design_magnet-p147338230623769368en878_152.jpg
We are not advising anyone to bypass the analog volume control. In fact you cannot bypass the analog volume. The only audio output on Dragonfly is the 3.5 mm. analog output. What we are suggesting is that you set the computer’s midi output to max, then adjust the player’s output to suit.
This just shows that you cannot trust marketing types or customer service. By setting the computer’s midi output to max you by-pass the analog volume control. And as any Audiophile can tell you, when you adjust the player’s digital output you usually lose resolution. AudioQuest is going to have to fix the owners manual. The analog volume control in the DragonFly is controlled by the main system’s volume control.

The Driver smiled when he lost his pursuer...

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]1678[/ATTACH]This just shows that you cannot trust marketing types or customer serva]AudioQuest is going to have to fix the owners manual. The analog volume control in the DragonFly is controlled by the main system’s volume control.

ice. By setting the computer’s midi output to max you by-pass the analog volume control. And as any Audiophile can tell you, when you adjust the player’s digital output you usually lose resolution. [/font][/color][font=georgi

 

Sorry I am confused, Mr. Rankin can probably enlighten me.

 

I am using Pure Music with Macbook Pro/Lion.

 

In my case, once the Dragonfly and Pure Music takes over the Mac Midi output volume control has no impact on the volume. The volume has to be adjusted through the Pure Music volume control. And from my screen the pure Music volume control is labelled (HW) or something like that. (Not at home so this is from memory).

 

Does it mean that Pure Music is now the master controlling the Dragonfly's hardware control?

 

Also, is there a way to divert the system volume control to the computer speakers?

 

Thanks

Macbook Pro/MacMini/dCS Debussy/Cambridge 650BD[br]Vitus Audio SS-010/Living Voice OBX-R2 Speakers/Ultrasone Edition 8 phones[br]Airport Express/Meridian AD88[br]

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Gang,

 

Let's clear up a few things....

 

Vista:

 

Really I have no idea why this is happening the Proton has exactly the same code and works fine. Microsoft is deep into Win8 so getting them to look at this is hard enough. Do note that we discovered for them that their async code for class 1 was wrong so hopefully that will be fixed. I asked about 88.2 in the control panel... AGAIN and who knows what will happen.

 

Volume Control:

 

Always use the hardware volume control inside the DragonFly for any adjustments. Yes AgentSmith (Guys how about some names!!!!) some applications like Decibel and Pure Music that take over the hardware device like the DragonFly will present the application volume control as it is linked to the system volume control and therefore is correct.

 

Thanks

Gordon

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Thanks Gordon

 

This may have been asked before, is the Dragonfly firmware upgradable? (Just wondering, I don't expect it to.)

 

Great product by the way, really lifted up the Ultrasone ED8 to the next level.

 

John

Macbook Pro/MacMini/dCS Debussy/Cambridge 650BD[br]Vitus Audio SS-010/Living Voice OBX-R2 Speakers/Ultrasone Edition 8 phones[br]Airport Express/Meridian AD88[br]

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  • 3 weeks later...

I bought this item for use at work with a Windows 7 laptop. I use Foobar2000 for playback.

 

Now I have one issue with the illumination color on it. The manual says:

 

"dragonfly lights up in different colors to indicate status or sample rate" Red: Standby, Green: 44100 Hz, Blue: 48000 Hz, Amber: 88200 Hz, Magenta: 96000 Hz

 

I noticed that the illumination color on DragonFly only changes if I change the sound setup in Control panel, say from 44100 Hz to 48000Hz

 

audiosetupDF.JPG

 

audiosetupDF-48.JPG

 

But the color on the DF doesn't change if the sample rate of the track changes. The color stay same all the time even in the case of idle (standby)

 

Foobar2000 in contrast changes the sample rate on the fly.

 

I tried it on my MacBook Air and it behaved the way it should. It changes the color with different sample rates.

 

Do I miss something or it is a Windows bug?

@Home: AIFF > LaCie Rikiki 2.5" USB3 > MBP 15" 8GB RAM / Audirvana Plus > ifi iUSBPower > Bel Canto mLink > Bel Canto e.One DAC2.5 > Wyred 4 SX-1000 > Wilson Audio Sophia II

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