AudioQuest DragonFly 24/96 Asynchronous USB DAC / Headphone Amp

[jhwalker]

Really looking forward to any comments on this device - very interesting, especially for those of us who travel frequently. Would love to have such a tiny output device *if high quality* for use on the road

[jhwalker]

Chris, can you confirm whether or not this device will work with an iPad via the Camera Connection Kit? I would imagine it would *not*, as it seems that any device that draws any amount of power thru the CCK is now disallowed in iOS but haven't seen this tested / stated anywhere.

[jhwalker]

I just tried several different connect / disconnect methods and each time I receive the message about the DragonFly requiring too much power via the camera connection kit.

 

Thanks, Chris - too much to hope for, I suppose. So iPad users (I usually take my iPad with me instead of a full-blown laptop on business trips) are still stuck with those devices that charge via USB but actually run from internal batteries (the FiiO devices, others in that same category).

[jhwalker]

You are still using blue ethernet cables? Wow.

 

???

[jhwalker]

I received the DragonFly DAC yesterday and have been running it through its paces in the following configurations:

 

 

• MacBook Pro 2.0 USB > Audirvana Plus Beta (integrated with iTunes) > DragonFly > VSonic GR07 IEMs
  
• Windows laptop 2.0 USB > Foobar2000 (WASAPI, event driven) > DragonFly > VSonic GR07 IEMs
  
• iPad (3) > CCK > powered hub > DragonFly > VSonic GR07 IEMs
  
• iPad (3) > CCK > powered hub > DragonFly > foxL v2 powered mini speaker (via mini-RCA)
  

 

Works great under each of these and sounds wonderful. Clear and powerful, deep "black" background when not playing, etc.

 

I was particularly interested in testing if it would work connected to a powered hub for iPad use via CCK, which it did perfectly out to my foxL portable speaker. All rates (up to 24 / 96) supported transparently. This will be nice when traveling (headed out for a two week trip this weekend) and want to listen in my hotel room

 

First time working with foobar2000 (for the Windows laptop), so some work required there - had to add a SOX resampler into the DSP chain for the few files that need to be down sampled on the fly to get to 88.2 or 96, and upgraded to the latest beta of the WASAPI output component due to a couple of playback glitches (momentary pauses / skips) in the music with the current production version. But the current beta (version 3, beta 5) in event mode works a treat (buffer at 50ms).

 

All in all, very pleased with the device and sound I'm getting.

 

Only drawback (for me) is the form factor, in that I really needed an angled / adjustable USB adapter for both Mac and Windows laptops because I don't like any USB device (thumb drive, etc.) sticking straight out from the side of the laptop - too precarious. But I bought a couple of adjustable adapters that let me run the device sideways along the side of each laptop, so good for now

[jhwalker]

John, thanks for the excellent info re foobar2000, which is what I'm using right now for my upstairs desktop with the Dragonfly (though considering XXHE), particularly downsampling and WASAPI beta.

 

What adapters did you buy? I'll be on a 5 hour flight Saturday and having something that will keep the Dragonfly close to my MBP's side would be nice.

 

Well, this is what I'm currently using:

 

Amazon.com: Cables To Go 30501 FlexUSB USB 2.0 A Male to A Female Adapter (Black): Electronics

 

but all that flexibility makes it a bit rickety, as well.

 

What I'd like to find is a permanent, molded adapter that would fit into the horizontal USB port on the side of the MBP, then rotate to fit along the side of the laptop, changing both vertical and horizontal orientation, but haven't found that miracle device yet

[jhwalker]

Have you compared the sound against your headphones being driven by an iPod? I'm very interested to know how an upmarket IEM would sound. I have a pair of Ortofon e-Q5s and I would be really interested in whether the DragonFly was an improvement over an iPod Touch or iPod Shuffle.

 

Not sure how you would compare such different "animals" objectively. You can't use the DragonFly with an iPod (only with an iPad via the CCK), so there's no direct comparison. In addition, the DragonFly (as Gordon has pointed out) is much more powerful than any built-in amplifier, so even volume-matching is a challenge.

 

Subjectively, I have to say I'm really enjoying the sound - it sounds much more powerful and "clean" that what I get out of my iPhone 4s or iPad (3) directly . . . and I thought that was pretty good to begin with.

 

I would *love* to see this solution with a 30-pin Apple "iConnector", but if I understand properly, that interface is deliberately limited to 16/48, so such a solution would be limited in high-end appeal. Maybe Apple will update the interface to 24/96 at some point - at which time, I'd expect to see a DAC like this come out pretty quickly.

[jhwalker]

Ah OK thanks, that's what I meant - how does the sound of a MacBook with DragonFly driving IEMs compare with the IEMs being driven by an iPod or iPhone. I wasn't expecting to be able to use the DragonFly with an iPod. If you say the DragonFly is much better than an iPod, then count me as very interested. When I'm on a plane or at my desk working I've got my MacBook in front of me, and I could just as easily drive my IEMs with the DragonFly as I can with an iPod.

 

Personally, if I had a stable workstation - I work from home and literally work from my recliner most of the day, so doesn't apply LOL - I'd use the DragonFly in preference to direct from iPad / iPod setup. As it stands, I will use it when it's convenient and I expect to be sitting in one place - at a desk, in a hotel, etc., for a few hours at a time - the rest of the time, I'll just jack into my iPhone or iPad, whichever is handy

 

I'm also one of those folks who seldom gets out their laptop in flight, even for transocean flights - just seems like too much fuss and too many wires (power cords, various cables, etc.). I either read, listen to music or watch videos on my iPad . . .until the power runs down, then I sleep

[jhwalker]

It won't help you for Saturday, but AQ will have a small, flexible, very high quality USB extension adapter for Dragonfly in a few weeks. Codename: DragonTail.

 

I'll be buying one, I'm sure.

[jhwalker]

Also, how does the analogue volume control work? Is there a nob or is it controlled by the computer volume slider?

 

Bill, I think you're just wondering if there is a knob or . . . there is no knob, the device is solid with no moving parts. It simply follows the volume you set in your music player or overall via your system volume. How that's actually implemented inside the device is something I can't answer.

[jhwalker]

Here is the answer:

 

• DragonFly can be used in “variable” output mode with analog volume control when connected directly to powered speakers or a power amplifier.

• Connecting to a traditional preamplifier or AV receiver, DragonFly can be set to a “fixed” output mode by turning the volume to maximum, allowing it to behave like a CD or Blu-ray player

 

source:

http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DragonFly-4pg-Brochure-EN-web.pdf

 

I think if you set it up to "variable", you can control the volume with the computer volume slide.

 

To be clear, there's no "setting" it to variable - it's always variable, but if you turn it all the way up, it is basically at "0"; i.e., line out.

[jhwalker]

On other DACs like this, you wind up setting the volume at around 90% when using it as a fixed volume device. Full provides some amplification for headphones, and is a bit too hot for going into a preamp.

 

Don't know if that is the case with the DragonFly or not, but I would be cautious until the facts about it come out.

 

-Paul

 

From their brochure:

 

"Connecting to a traditional preamplifier or AV receiver, DragonFly can be set to a “fixed” output mode by turning the volume to maximum, allowing it to behave like a CD or Blu-ray player."

[jhwalker]

Just ordered it on Amazon. Maybe I will get it on Saturday...

 

I'm pretty sure you'll really like it - it takes the output I was already really happy with (i.e., native from mostly Apple devices) and makes it OMG-worthy

[jhwalker]

Well, finished the first leg of the trip and on layover. Used the Dragonfly for extended period for the first time.

 

- Sound from it is *much* better than direct from MacBook Pro (which is pretty good itself), using Audirvana Plus. No comparison. This is with Etymotic ER-4P IEMs.

 

- I did manage to get my DSD files onto the MBP and listened to nearly all of the Savall performance of the Brandenburg Concertos. Absolutely sublime.

 

- No muss no fuss. Terrifically convenient - put laptop on tray table, plug in Dragonfly to USB port, insert IEM pin into Dragonfly, enjoy.

 

- Dragon Tail is definitely needed. Just the 2" or so the Dragonfly sticks out from the MBP really does matter. Insane how narrow airplane seats are. Last time I sat in a seat that narrow it was at Fenway, built 100 years ago for much smaller, thinner humans.

 

It does sound great, doesn't it? Thanks for providing immediate feedback - I'm traveling tomorrow (will be away from home for two weeks), so will be using it a lot over the next little bit.

 

How did you get the Savall DSD files? I have ordered the SACD / CD, but I will only be able to rip the CD layer - wish there were more sources of downloadable DSD

[jhwalker]

Amazon still hasn't shipped mine. So much for this Prime 2 day delivery. Grrr.

 

Well, to have gotten it today, you would have had to order it from stock by ~noon yesterday and pay extra for 1-day, right? And Prime 2-day doesn't count Saturday and Sunday. So means you'll get it Tuesday (or possibly Monday, if they ship it on Sunday, as they sometimes do).

 

I've often been flabbergasted by how quickly I receive merchandise from Amazon - once received a multipurpose laser printer less than 24 hours after I ordered it and frequently get items overnight instead of 2-day with no extra charge. Have had a family Prime membership for several years now, and it certainly pays for itself very quickly if you buy a lot from Amazon

[jhwalker]

Gordon, thank you so much for your contribution! Obviously, a lot of interest in this device - I'm loving mine. Congratulations on a very useful and high-quality device

[jhwalker]

I'm not sure about all this discussion re: headphone jack vs. RCA output. It's pretty obvious (to me, at least) that the DragonFly was developed primarily for portable, laptop / headphone use, which *dictates* the use of headphone out, not RCA. Bonus is that if you set the volume at 100%, it also effectively provides line-out for conversion to RCA if wanted, or direct to another device via headphone out (like the foxL speaker I'm using right now), etc.

 

In short, the design was not intended to be the best solution for a fixed output to a stationary system but, rather, to provide the best mobile solution - the rest is gravy.

 

IMHO.

[jhwalker]

Why don't the DF to sit flush? Is there a way to make it flush? The cable weights down the DF.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]970[/ATTACH]

 

How in the world could they possibly design the DragonFly so that it would sit "flush" with all the various varieties of computers out there, the USB ports being various heights above the desk, some horizontal and some vertical . . . ?

 

FWIW, on my Windows laptop, where the USB ports run up and down (i.e., vertical), it sits perfectly on my desktop

[jhwalker]

Guys, one thing I can't seem to do with my Dragonfly is use it with Audirvana. Despite setting up the DF to be output in Audio Midi and Sound control panels, when using Audirvana and my Dragonfly on my MB Pro, sound only comes out of the built-in speakers, and not out of the Dragonfly. However, using the same Audio Midi and Sound control panel setting (output from the DF), I get music out of the DF using iTunes, Decibel or Pure Music.

 

I'm OSX Mountain Lion OS, BTW. Anyone have any ideas why the DF doesn't work with Audirvana?

 

Because Audirvana ignores whatever you have set in Audio MIDI You need to select the DF in Audirvana (Preferences | Audio System | Perferred Audio Device)

[jhwalker]

Help I have aq dragonfly how to hook iPad please someone?

 

Cck to powered USB hub then I'm lost dragon fly is connected with?

with which cables

3.5 and USB to USB cable?

 

I run iPad > CCK > USB (full-size to mini-USB cable) > mini-USB input to powered hub > DragonFly (plugged-in to one of the full-sized USB ports) > headphones or speakers. Works great.

[jhwalker]

Thx jh full size to mini USB

ok

 

what do you mean mini USB input to powered hub?

 

 

Im not home now and I'm new to powered hub

is there a mini USB input on Hub?

 

On mine, yes Not sure if all of them are the same.

 

Since I have (seemingly) hundreds of the full-size to mini-USB cables (and not a single full-size to full-size), this was very convenient for me LOL

[jhwalker]

Well, as much as I was hoping this solution would work for me, the DragonFly will be getting sent back tomorrow.

. . .

What I found was that the DF did add some clarity to the material, helping separate individual components of the composition. Vocals, and notes seems to be more focused in time time and space. Subtle, but definitely an improvement. But, in every case I felt something was missing, and when I went back to the mini out of the MacBook Pro, there is was. The DragonFly was just lacking in the lower frequencies. Hi-Rez Louis Armstrong shouldn't sound wispy. Clear and open, but wispy. Hmm, was it the recording? Nope, The Cure, "Fascination Street" (extended) also sounded anemic. Then, after noticing the same thing with Gotan Project on Tango, I just couldn't get around it no matter how clear it was. I switched between Kimber Timbre and the Hero. Wondered if maybe it was the mini adapter, but decided the MBP sounded fine. Tried different players (I like Decibel BTW over Amarra), and kept wanting to turn up the bass with the Rotel every time I switched back to the DragonFly.

. . .

-Junker

 

Wow - just goes to show you how different devices can sound in different systems! The biggest improvement I found using the DragonFly (vs. any of my other alternatives) was the powerful, controlled bass

 

Sorry the DragonFly didn't work out for you - I like mine so much, I'm plugging it into my main system when I'm home, and taking it with me when I travel!

[jhwalker]

JHWALKER - can you please specify which USB Powered Hub you are using for the iPad - Dragonfly connection? I know that there are many generic ones that can work, but I had issues with my trusty Tekkeon MP 1860 - it did not work and I got the error message in my iPad3 that the device I'm connecting to requires too much power.

 

I am currently using the following configuration with my Centrance DACPort with no issues:

iPad -> CCK -> Tekkeon TekCharge MP1860A USB -> Centrance DAC Port -> Miles Davis Trumpet headphones

 

When I switched the DAC Port for the DragonFly I got the not enough power error message, and the music plays on the iPad speakers instead of the headphones through the DAC.

 

I bought the DragonFly this week due to the great recent reviews which rate it higher than the DACPort, and because it would require one less cable connection compared to the DACPort (which requires a mini USB cable from the USB hub)

 

Help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

This is the one I'm using:

 

Belkin 4-Port Ultra-Slim USB 2.0 Metal Desktop Hub - Apple Store (U.S.)

 

but I see it's gotten some pretty terrible reviews at the Apple store

 

FWIW, I haven't had any issues with it, but I use it only when I travel and only for a couple hours at a time, not full-time in my main system, so I may not be seeing some of the reliability issues they're reporting.