NAD C390DD Direct Digital DAC/Amplifier

[trappy]

re: wgscott's post above: This was pretty much word-for-word my reaction to the 390DD.

[edorr]

re: wgscott's post above: This was pretty much word-for-word my reaction to the 390DD.

 

I won't bother buying one then, and stick with my 2 box setup...

[Mark V.]

I won't bother buying one then, and stick with my 2 box setup...

 

I don't think it's wise to make such desicion on the comments of 2 people... There are also quite a few people who are very happy with this amp. The best thing is to listen to it yourself!

 

I didn't hear the 390DD myself, but if it's close to the M2 (which I own) it will sound really well and it deserves to be auditioned! It will not be everyone's cup of tea, but neither will be any other component(s).

 

Edit: I didn't read your previous post properly, where you desribe you already own a M51. In that case I wouldn't bother, as you are able to combine the M51 with the amp to your liking.

[Audio_ELF]

I won't bother buying one then, and stick with my 2 box setup...

I think it will depend on your speakers...

[trappy]

I think it will depend on your speakers...

 

It might. I have quite inefficient speakers; maybe that makes a difference. There are quite a few reviews of the non-professional variety that have reported a similar experience: Very impressed out of the starting gate and then finding all sorts of circumstances in which it is less than optimal. Low-level listening, for instance, seemed to suck all the dynamics out. Opera recordings were really strident when loud and lifeless when quiet. On the other hand some of my chamber-music recordings were better than I've ever heard and that includes in my current set up. I haven't gone through the (mostly rave) professional reviews to see if there was any commonality in the speakers used.

[wgscott]

Pearl Jam sounded quite exceptional. Beethoven's 9th -- not so much. I have no idea why.

[trappy]

Pearl Jam sounded quite exceptional. Beethoven's 9th -- not so much. I have no idea why.

 

Exactly.

[wgscott]

I guess it must be dynamic range then.

[Audio_ELF]

Pearl Jam sounded quite exceptional. Beethoven's 9th -- not so much. I have no idea why.

Well surely that depends which recording of Beethoven's 9th :-)

[wgscott]

and which Pearl Jam recording.

[lightminer]

A musician friend who lives in an apartment w/thin walls came to me to design a system. I came up with 390DD + MiniMaggies. This person has extremely little space, so the 1 box design is very helpful, they certainly aren't going to get 4 large components.

 

Reading through the Auralic Vega thread the people who made the dac indicated that the digital pre, when used near full-throttle, is nearly flawless, and becomes quite bad as you get down to 20 db sound levels.

 

I know this system is different, but since the use-case here is going to be more quiet music rather than loud music, I wanted to see if anyone has any opinions of the quality at 50 or 60 db rather than 90+.

 

My other idea is Oppo 105 (possibly upgraded) plus a great integrated summing to the same price as the above system (same speakers). A more traditional class-A integrated will sound great at lower volumes.

 

BTW, haven't heard it yet, but the 390dd and Mini Maggies on paper looks to be an incredible 'small' sytem - maybe one of the best at the price?

 

(I was also considering Tetra 120u speakers.)

 

[Edit: Well, this person sings, Opera and other genres, and plays several instruments. From the last 2 pages of comments if female Opera reproduction is too strident she will know for sure and not like that. We can upgrade into AP w/power later, so take that into account.]

[lightminer]

Guys,

 

This is all very confusing, on page 1 we see:

 

"Hory clap. The dynamic range is unbelievable. ML2s are not particularly efficient speakers (~86dBm I think) but the 390 had them absolutely stomping, slamming and shaking the room with the kind of controlled power that class D is renowned for."

 

And now people are saying "don't buy it, there are no dynamics".....

 

And this from the TAS Review:

 

After the C 390DD was fully broken in, there was no mistaking its heritage; it sounded very much like the M2. The C 390DD’s greatest strength was undoubtedly its authoritative bass and startling bottom-end dynamics. This amplifier sounded like a powerhouse, with rock-solid solidity to bass guitar and tremendous impact to kick drum. The C 390DD took ironfisted control of the Venture Ultimate Reference loudspeakers’ four 9" woofers per side, serving up a visceral, body-involving experience on albums such as Talking Heads’ Speaking in Tongues (96kHz/24-bit). Even at high levels, the kick drum’s ability to cut through the bass guitar lines was phenomenal. The C 390DD’s terrific bass and wide dynamics were also on full display when I listened to large-scale orchestral music; I heard no strain on even the most demanding passages. In fact, I experienced a kind of disconnect when listening to an album like Jeff Beck’s Performing this Week...Live at Ronnie Scott’s; it seemed hard to believe that the massive kick-drum impact and rock-solid bass lines were being produced by this diminutive and lightweight (compared with the huge monoblocks flanking the C 390DD) integrated amplifier. A phrase came to mind when I was marveling at the C 390DD’s bass: “Krell-like.” Krell amplifiers have, since their introduction in the early 1980s, represented the pinnacle of “center-of-theearth” solidity and bottom-end dynamic impact. Improbably, the 17-pound C 390DD invited this prodigious comparison.

 

 

 

So there is something going on here. Could it have to do with plugging it directly into the wall vs a conditioner? I have no idea, and on audio sites in general there is a lot of disagreement, but we shouldn't have "Best dynamics in the world - like Krell" and "No dynamics, big orchestral pieces put me to sleep compared to my 8 watt tube amp." Okay that is a slight exaggeration, but it feels like there is something going on here.

 

Can we figure this out?

 

For the people saying there are no dynamics, what was the volume at? It could be the issue mentioned in the Vega thread, it has to be in the upper 20% of the volume control to sound its best.

[trappy]

Yes, no question it was much much better at higher volumes. Maybe the hollow-sounding operatic voices would have filled out a bit more with time -- these things are hard to tell. But lifeless at low-levels is a deal-breaker for me, so the NAD had to go. My current setup suits me much better for about the same price and the Benchmark has a great headphone amp.

[Paul R]

A musician friend who lives in an apartment w/thin walls came to me to design a system. I came up with 390DD + MiniMaggies. This person has extremely little space, so the 1 box design is very helpful, they certainly aren't going to get 4 large components.

 

Reading through the Auralic Vega thread the people who made the dac indicated that the digital pre, when used near full-throttle, is nearly flawless, and becomes quite bad as you get down to 20 db sound levels.

 

I know this system is different, but since the use-case here is going to be more quiet music rather than loud music, I wanted to see if anyone has any opinions of the quality at 50 or 60 db rather than 90+.

 

My other idea is Oppo 105 (possibly upgraded) plus a great integrated summing to the same price as the above system (same speakers). A more traditional class-A integrated will sound great at lower volumes.

 

BTW, haven't heard it yet, but the 390dd and Mini Maggies on paper looks to be an incredible 'small' sytem - maybe one of the best at the price?

 

(I was also considering Tetra 120u speakers.)

 

[Edit: Well, this person sings, Opera and other genres, and plays several instruments. From the last 2 pages of comments if female Opera reproduction is too strident she will know for sure and not like that. We can upgrade into AP w/power later, so take that into account.]

 

Just my two cents, but the 390DD and Maggie MMG is a good match. The MMGs usually delight people who love orchestra and opera music, and will not overwhelm the listener with too much bass. They are very balanced that way, and are especially good at reproducing strings.

 

The 390dd does need to be turned up a bit, not terribly loud, but a bit, before it will drive the MMGs into their best sound. Certainly not uncomfortably loud, but a little bit. You would really need to get them in place and listen for a few days before making a decision. Fortunately, the MMGs come with a right of return, and if you buy the 390dd from a place with a similar policy! you can test this, in place, with little risk.

[Kelly]

A musician friend who lives in an apartment w/thin walls came to me to design a system. I came up with 390DD + MiniMaggies. This person has extremely little space, so the 1 box design is very helpful, they certainly aren't going to get 4 large components.

 

Reading through the Auralic Vega thread the people who made the dac indicated that the digital pre, when used near full-throttle, is nearly flawless, and becomes quite bad as you get down to 20 db sound levels.

 

I know this system is different, but since the use-case here is going to be more quiet music rather than loud music, I wanted to see if anyone has any opinions of the quality at 50 or 60 db rather than 90+.

 

My other idea is Oppo 105 (possibly upgraded) plus a great integrated summing to the same price as the above system (same speakers). A more traditional class-A integrated will sound great at lower volumes.

 

BTW, haven't heard it yet, but the 390dd and Mini Maggies on paper looks to be an incredible 'small' sytem - maybe one of the best at the price?

 

(I was also considering Tetra 120u speakers.)

 

[Edit: Well, this person sings, Opera and other genres, and plays several instruments. From the last 2 pages of comments if female Opera reproduction is too strident she will know for sure and not like that. We can upgrade into AP w/power later, so take that into account.]

 

I'm a big fan of NADs, but I understand even Magnepan cautions against using Class D amps with their speakers. That's not to say it may not work well (and there are testimonials that it does.) But if you are concerned about the 390DD not waking up at lower volumes maybe save some money and try the excellent and super compact Rega Brio-R and combine it with an excellent compact DAC like the Halide DacHD (essentially takes the place of the USB cable) and come out with $1000 saved. Seems like the 390DD might be overkill for that situation where volume needs to be kept generally low.

[wgscott]

So there is something going on here. Could it have to do with plugging it directly into the wall vs a conditioner? I have no idea, and on audio sites in general there is a lot of disagreement, but we shouldn't have "Best dynamics in the world - like Krell" and "No dynamics, big orchestral pieces put me to sleep compared to my 8 watt tube amp." Okay that is a slight exaggeration, but it feels like there is something going on here.

 

Can we figure this out?

 

For the people saying there are no dynamics, what was the volume at? It could be the issue mentioned in the Vega thread, it has to be in the upper 20% of the volume control to sound its best.

 

First of all, this demonstrates the value of subjective reviews. Referring to a Talking Heads "HD" test file that is well-known to be defective is hardly confidence-inspiring.

 

The problem, if there is one, is simply lack of power in some cases. This will manifest itself more obviously at low volumes and with inefficient speakers. There is nothing wrong with the digital attenuation.

[Paul R]

I'm a big fan of NADs, but I understand even Magnepan cautions against using Class D amps with their speakers. That's not to say it may not work well (and there are testimonials that it does.) But if you are concerned about the 390DD not waking up at lower volumes maybe save some money and try the excellent and super compact Rega Brio-R and combine it with an excellent compact DAC like the Halide DacHD (essentially takes the place of the USB cable) and come out with $1000 saved. Seems like the 390DD might be overkill for that situation where volume needs to be kept generally low.

 

Where have you seen Magnepan do this? They were running off a 35wpc tiny little amp in their reception area last I heard.

 

In any case, Maggies do pretty well with any amp that can pump out current when requested. The WPC rating is far less meaningful than the current rating. I have heard Maggies running on 20wpc Lepai Tripath amps ($80 or less) and they sounded wonderful. Not overly loud, but wonderful.

 

Personally, putting the volume on a 390DD up at 80% as a poster here suggested was necessary, would probably make a person's ears bleed.

 

-Paul

[Kelly]

Where have you seen Magnepan do this? They were running off a 35wpc tiny little amp in their reception area last I heard.

 

In any case, Maggies do pretty well with any amp that can pump out current when requested. The WPC rating is far less meaningful than the current rating. I have heard Maggies running on 20wpc Lepai Tripath amps ($80 or less) and they sounded wonderful. Not overly loud, but wonderful.

 

Personally, putting the volume on a 390DD up at 80% as a poster here suggested was necessary, would probably make a person's ears bleed.

 

-Paul

 

I guess they don't actually caution against it, just make a statement that some work better than others. If you say the 390DD works well then I definitely believe you. This is what I was referring to:

 

"A new type of amplifier (Class D) has become more popular because it is a “green” design and uses less power plus it is smaller in size compared to conventional amplifier designs. We have heard reports of Class D amplifiers shutting down when driving 4 ohm loads or sound quality that is less-than-desirable. Some, more recent designs are much better. Because we do not have the time to determine which models of Class D designs are compatible with Maggies, we must take a conservative approach. Class A/B designs with high current capability have proven a good choice for many decades. "

 

http://www.magnepan.com/faq#receivers

[Paul R]

I guess they don't actually caution against it, just make a statement that some work better than others. If you say the 390DD works well then I definitely believe you. This is what I was referring to:

 

"A new type of amplifier (Class D) has become more popular because it is a “green” design and uses less power plus it is smaller in size compared to conventional amplifier designs. We have heard reports of Class D amplifiers shutting down when driving 4 ohm loads or sound quality that is less-than-desirable. Some, more recent designs are much better. Because we do not have the time to determine which models of Class D designs are compatible with Maggies, we must take a conservative approach. Class A/B designs with high current capability have proven a good choice for many decades. "

 

http://www.magnepan.com/faq#receivers

 

Ah- I had totally missed that, and it makes total sense. I think they might have been referring to the kerflunkle where some knucklehead was hooking "white van" amps to some MMGs...

[woodford]

no problem driving a pair of MMGs w/ a NAD D7050. sounded damn fine as well.

[lightminer]

Just my two cents, but the 390DD and Maggie MMG is a good match.

 

For clarity - I mean the full ribbon MiniMaggies -

 

http://www.magnepan.com/model_mini_maggie

 

 

(This person has very little space, ergo the 1 box and mini speakers combo.)

[Paul R]

Oy! Those are probably not going to be acceptable if the owner is not sitting right in front of then, as if they were seated at a desk. They really just do not do justice to a room, no matter how much many of us wish they could. Time for a set of mini monitors I think, unless you can fit in a set of MMGs, or wall mounted Maggie's with a small sub.

 

Paul

 

 

For clarity - I mean the full ribbon MiniMaggies -

 

http://www.magnepan.com/model_mini_maggie

 

 

(This person has very little space, ergo the 1 box and mini speakers combo.)

[woodford]

following up on the character of the NAD digital amps and classical vocal/opera music. i listen to a ton of both, and love the sound of the D7050 w/ classical/opera.

 

the 390DD uses a different topology, but i would think it would work well.

[lightminer]

Oy! Those are probably not going to be acceptable...

 

 

I just want to make sure - you've heard them in person? I'll try and find out what the listening distance is. I consider it nearfield, but it could still be 8 feet.

 

My other option I am considering are Harbeth 30.1s and a NuForce DDA-100, same idea as the 390dd. The idea there is to focus on the speakers, and the NuForce DDA-100 can be used in another system eventually, it would basically be a placeholder while they are still in an apartment.

 

There is also the Gallo Reference Strada 2, that could work. You don't think the MiniMaggies would be better than the reference strada?

[Paul R]

I just want to make sure - you've heard them in person? I'll try and find out what the listening distance is. I consider it nearfield, but it could still be 8 feet.

 

My other option I am considering are Harbeth 30.1s and a NuForce DDA-100, same idea as the 390dd. The idea there is to focus on the speakers, and the NuForce DDA-100 can be used in another system eventually, it would basically be a placeholder while they are still in an apartment.

 

There is also the Gallo Reference Strada 2, that could work. You don't think the MiniMaggies would be better than the reference strada?

 

Oh yes, I have listened to them many times, and even tried them setup in a small room. They sound glorious, near field, 3-4 ft. Not so glorious when room interactions are involved, most unfortunately.

 

Between the Gallos and the Harbeths, it breaks down into a sting set of preferences. I would always take the Harbeths, and with the 390dd, you could even make a nice little 2.0 audio and video system. Speaker wise, you might look at something like the PSB Imagine Minis - fine sound, tiny speaker. Or the small Gallos box speakers.

 

Dozens and and dozens of great choices available to you.