NAD C390DD Direct Digital DAC/Amplifier

[Audio_ELF]

I believe you an set the NAD C390DD with a high pass filter (via DSP) for the main output and output to a powered sub. This is vastly superior (at least in theory) to using either speaker level connection or line level without crossover.

[realhifi]

Thinking of a 2.1 HT system with the 390DD as the heart (w/ HDMI).

 

Anyone with experience along these lines? I have a pair of Dynaudio X-12's and a REL T-5 subwoofer that I am going to drive off of this for movies and casual music listening. What do I need ot know or understand before taking this plunge?

 

The REL's are unique in their ability to be driven on the same speaker terminals as your stereo speakers and basically used with a full range signal into it. The high level input on the REL is shown in the photo and is the prefered method for hooking up any REL to any system. They DO have .1 inputs but only as a nod to home theater equipment buffs and can certainly be used in ADDITION to the high level input if desired.

 

Film surround soundtracks are made with 5 equal speakers in mind and the .1 sub information is simply for those that don't have full range speakers in their systems. Ideally you should have three subs, five full (well at least close to full) range speakers so you could take bass information from each of the zones; fronts, center and rears. I mean, having no sub in the rears along with small speakers is just not true to what was intended. Sort of like when a jetliner takes off from the front and flys over it turns into a Cessna.

 

Long answer to short question....yes, it will work. Especially with a REL!

[Audio_ELF]

The REL's are unique in their ability to be driven on the same speaker terminals as your stereo speakers and basically used with a full range signal into it. The high level input on the REL is shown in the photo and is the preferred method for hooking up any REL to any system. They DO have .1 inputs but only as a nod to home theater equipment buffs and can certainly be used in ADDITION to the high level input if desired.

David, do you still think it is the best method if you're using a system with a DSP / crossover such as the NAD C390DD?

 

Oh I don't think the RELs high level (speaker) input is unique either - what is (IIRC) unique is the ability to connect the REL to both high level and line level simultaneously which makes it very useful in HT setups.

 

Eloise

[wgscott]

The new Bowers and Wilkins PV1D sub, which I wish I had held out for instead of my Rel, also offers this ability to hook up both ways simultaneously.

 

Getting back to Rels and the 390DD -- can anyone who has both verify that you can use the speaker-level speak-on connection without a problem? If so, how did you hook up the black wire?

[realhifi]

David, do you still think it is the best method if you're using a system with a DSP / crossover such as the NAD C390DD?

 

Oh I don't think the RELs high level (speaker) input is unique either - what is (IIRC) unique is the ability to connect the REL to both high level and line level simultaneously which makes it very useful in HT setups.

 

Eloise

 

Agreed. But, it also is unique in the way it does high level input. It takes trickle from the same output as your main speakers and does not take that signal through the sub into the mains.

And yes, I do think it's still the preferred method to DSP in the sense that you are still letting the mains play full range.

[wgscott]

There are a number of other subs that similarly take high-level input, including the B&W PV subs.

 

What IS unique is having only 3 wires for this instead of four, leading to all sorts of crazy complications.

[realhifi]

There are a number of other subs that similarly take high-level input, including the B&W PV subs.

 

What IS unique is having only 3 wires for this instead of four, leading to all sorts of crazy complications.

 

The three wire configuration has never been a problem in my experience. You are basically taking a common ground and using the left and right as hots. It is actually pretty simple.

[wgscott]

It works fine for me, just connecting to one of the ground speaker binding posts on the amp, but some Class D amps have a balanced speaker output, which makes it more complicated.

 

Since the NAD is class-D-like, it might have some issues. Hence my question.

[realhifi]

It works fine for me, just connecting to one of the ground speaker binding posts on the amp, but some Class D amps have a balanced speaker output, which makes it more complicated.

 

Since the NAD is class-D-like, it might have some issues. Hence my question.

 

It works well with the Primare line which is now all class d so I would imagine it would work fine with the NAD also. I have not had hands on with a REL hooked up to that NAD amp though so a call to Sumiko might be in order for you. They would be able to give you a thumbs up or down on that amp.

[Sam Lord]

There are a number of other subs that similarly take high-level input, including the B&W PV subs...

Yes. The Velodyne DD/DD+ series do this, and have more filter options, not that you should *use* a sub's hp filter to feed your mains...unless you know it's a very good one.

[squidly]

Went and listened to the C 390dd today, looking to upgrade my Peachtree Nova.

Boy, it sounded nothing like I was expecting. I usually can't stand class-D amps, but this one sounded very smooth, neutral and much more dynamic than my Nova. Here I was all set to buy a Schiit Gungnir for my Nova, but this NAD has me thinking twice.

The dealer is going to let me take the floor model home next weekend, but I have a couple questions. With the room EQ, does it control the pre outs for subwoofers or just the main speakers? It would be nice to clean things up and remove my Velodyne SMS-1 sub EQ. Also, the manual shows that a sample rate can be set for the DAC. I don't get it. Is this for upsampling? I wouldn't want to lock in a rate or upsample.

[wisnon]

I think everything in the NAD is upsampled to the operating frequency and converted from PCM to PWM.

[DanRubin]

Winsom is correct. The only sample rate setting you can do with the C390DD is for analog sources if you have the optional analog board. (And you don't get the sample rate choice for the phono input, just for the line-level A to D.)

 

The room correction will apply to the affected frequencies whether they are being fed from the speaker output terminals or the subwoofer outs. You'll have to see how well it works compared to your Velodyne's EQ functions. With the NAD, you can also select a crossover frequency for high pass/low pass split between the amplifier main outs and the sub outs. And you can level trim each of them.

 

The owner's manual is downloadable at the NAD website. If you haven't already, you might want to give it a read before you bring the unit home. Don't forget to experiment with the speaker impedance setting.

[wgscott]

Dan, do you still experience the recessed vocals? Are you otherwise happy with it? I'm still seriously tempted ...

[Bromo33333]

 

Long answer to short question....yes, it will work. Especially with a REL!

 

I went with a NAD M51 DAC as preamp and Parasound Halo A23 for the amp.

 

In a head to head, that combination sounded better for the same money

 

I also added a second REL T-5 which makes an enormous difference.

[squidly]

I went with a NAD M51 DAC as preamp and Parasound Halo A23 for the amp.

 

In a head to head, that combination sounded better for the same money

 

I also added a second REL T-5 which makes an enormous difference.

 

Hmm, interesting. I would consider an M51 if I could use the balanced output to the amp and single-ended to my subs

[Bromo33333]

Hmm, interesting. I would consider an M51 if I could use the balanced output to the amp and single-ended to my subs

 

It has a balanced output - and I use that to the Amp. I don't know about subs off the DAC - not sure if that works or not - I have REL subs and take it right off the amp outputs.

[realhifi]

I went with a NAD M51 DAC as preamp and Parasound Halo A23 for the amp.

 

In a head to head, that combination sounded better for the same money

 

I also added a second REL T-5 which makes an enormous difference.

 

Nice!

[DanRubin]

I would consider an M51 if I could use the balanced output to the amp and single-ended to my subs

 

That should work since you are using the NAD for volume control. Balanced outputs are typically a lot "hotter" than single ended, but you should be able to adjust for that with the REL's overall gain setting.

 

Bill Scott: I am no longer experiencing -- or noticing, at any rate -- the recessed vocals. I'm enjoying the NAD quite a bit. Don't know if it will replace my pricier separates long term, but I continue to entertain the possibility. The C390DD is wonderfully quiet, very dynamic and paints seamless soundstage. Its sound shades toward the sweet and warm, not a bad thing.

[squidly]

That should work since you are using the NAD for volume control. Balanced outputs are typically a lot "hotter" than single ended, but you should be able to adjust for that with the REL's overall gain setting.

 

Bill Scott: I am no longer experiencing -- or noticing, at any rate -- the recessed vocals. I'm enjoying the NAD quite a bit. Don't know if it will replace my pricier separates long term, but I continue to entertain the possibility. The C390DD is wonderfully quiet, very dynamic and paints seamless soundstage. Its sound shades toward the sweet and warm, not a bad thing.

 

You're not making my decision any easier.

Well, only way to solve this is to borrow the C390DD (and maybe a M51) and order a Gungnir to pair with my Nova and see what setup wins. Anybody care to place a bet?

[wgscott]

The DAC is actually the best part of the Nova.

 

There is no way this will be worse. The only question in my mind is whether my tin ears and entry-level speakers would really benefit from the upgrade.

 

Sadly, the Nova definitely looks better in the living room.

[Bromo33333]

You're not making my decision any easier.

Well, only way to solve this is to borrow the C390DD (and maybe a M51) and order a Gungnir to pair with my Nova and see what setup wins. Anybody care to place a bet?

 

My money is on the NAD M51, after having been through a similar exercise.

 

The C390DD is a damn good amp, though.

[squidly]

I'm looking for a kinder, gentler DAC other than a Sabre. Although one thing that helped improve things recently was an iUSB.

 

I hear ya on the M51. I am kind of hoping the 390DD will come out on top with it's room EQ so I could eliminate the Velodyne SMS-1.

[Sam Lord]

I'm looking for a kinder, gentler DAC other than a Sabre...

 

What DAC are you referring to? The Sabre is just the converter chip (OK, a small family of fine chips). A chip of that quality can sound any way you like.

[squidly]

I guess I had heard that in general, Sabre based DACs were more edgy and bright. My Nova fits this description, and although I can tame that with the tube buffer, the soundstage shrinks when I use it. I was looking at the AKM based Schiit Gungnir and the NAD M51 or C390DD. I heard the C390DD two days ago and it was nice and smooth, but still dynamic.