Article: Logitech Squeezebox Touch Review

[reverendo]

Just updating:<br />

have tested the Touch with a friend's PSU from Welborne Labs and it makes not so subtle difference. In my case music lost some 'digitalis', had better bass, better silence and, probably because of that, became more organic. Great cost/benefit investment.<br />

Best regards<br />

André

[Paul R]

I am in awe of this little beastie. I cannot believe how good it sounds, it is flat out competitive with a Mac running Amarra. If I could hook the Proton to it without USB artifacts, it would, hands down, be competitive with systems costing 10X as much, IMNSHO. <br />

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Question: This little box is so damn good, would it's big brother (the Transporter) be even better? Or is it a case of the Touch leapfrogging over the older technology? I am tempted in the extreme at the moment. <br />

<br />

-Paul<br />

<br />

[firedog]

Comparisons to Transporter:<br />

<br />

Transporter analogue out significantly better.<br />

<br />

Touch digital outs, competitive with Transporter, most (not all)users said it was very slightly inferior. They pretty much all agreed that if you have a Touch and are using the digital out to an external DAC, not much reason to get a Transporter. Improvement very small if at all.

[firedog]

No, the SBT delivers music only to it's own analogue or digital outs. SBS software on your PC doesn't output music to a computer soundcard, only to a network, in other words the SBT.<br />

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The only exception to this that I know of is the Sonore version of Vortexbox, and they've got a licensed hack that allows you to use an SB as a remote and get output from the computer.<br />

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Logitech does have a remote app (Squeezeplay) that you can load on a laptop or PC(interface is very similar to the Touch), and it will work with SBS on your server and output music to the soundcard of the Laptop or PC that it is loaded onto. But then your Laptop is the wifi remote, not the Touch. <br />

<br />

<br />

[Cordovox]

Hello<br />

<br />

I'm currently using to play my FLAC files, an Acer Laptop, connected via USB to an ARcam rDac.<br />

All my Flac files are in a 1 TB HD.<br />

I honestly don't intend to play files wirelessly.<br />

The thin is that my desktop pc is ending it's life and instead of investing on another one, I would replace it by the laptop.<br />

That's where the Squeezebox enter.<br />

And the question is: <br />

Can I connect the HD directly to the squeezebox?<br />

My HD is now w/ aprox 600 gb of flac files. Will it, while connected directly to the Touch, create any sort of conflict?<br />

Obviously, I will get it connected to the rDac.<br />

All suggestions, opinions, help will be much appreciated.<br />

<br />

Thanks a lot<br />

<br />

Cheers<br />

David

[jay27]

Yes, a hard drive connects directly to the Squeezebox Touch.<br />

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In my experience, the SB Touch's software is a bit buggy (disconnects from hd randomly, fails to connect timely, skips to next song before current song is complete...).<br />

<br />

Not sure what everyone else's experience is. Most of my time with the unit is in the car as well. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.<br />

<br />

The DAC in the SB Touch is solid and I don't think an external one is necessary if the only thing you're considering is sound quality.<br />

<br />

If the software didn't give me issues, it would be awesome. I'm not sure there is anything else out there like it, even today.

[reverendo]

If you want to use the SB more for as a social kind of player then using a HDD with USB won't do any harm. The DAC is great for the price.<br />

OTOH, if you intend to use it a serious tool for music reproduction I would only use it as a digital transport and without USB, preferably with the ethernet connection. I connect mine to an external DAC which is way better than the SB DAC (which is should, since it's much more expensive) and I've been rather happy.<br />

best regards<br />

André

[Guest Caner]

Paul you've mentioned in one of your posts that an upgrade in the power supply for touch did not do much help re SQ.<br />

<br />

Correct me if I am wrong, it is my understanding that you use it as a transport, without the interfrence of its internal DAC (I came to this conclusion from your signature-> Peachtree DAC IT). People in SB forums mention that using it as such, linear power supply does not help much. They claim a difference when using analog output interface of the touch (hence the involvement of internal DAC and the need to use more internal circutry -> increased interference and noise from the power supply) <br />

<br />

Do you agree with that assesment? <br />

<br />

And was the upgrade the famous "welborne labs" linear supply or something else.<br />

<br />

I am considering an upgrade but I do not want to make an investment if it does not make sense.<br />

<br />

Thx

[Paul R]

The internal DAC is okay, but not good enough. When using an external DAC, there doesn't seem to be any (or at least much) improvement when using an higher quality power supply. <br />

<br />

I posit that the improvements with a better supply were mostly on older models; the Touch standard power supply seems to be much better built. <br />

<br />

-Paul<br />

[reverendo]

Caner,<br />

I use the SB Touch as a digital transport with a Welborne PSU and I disagree thouroughlly with the assesstment that it doesn't make any difference. It was almost an entire device upgrade in itself. OTOH I have a very transparent system, so your mileage may vary.<br />

I significantly improved LF, taking the wooliness out of it and thus cleaning up the whole harmonic spectrum. I believe that due to that soundstage and tridimensionality improved quite a bit. One of the best upgrades I've ever had. Unfortunately Welborne isn't the best with customers, but once you get the PSU (I'd recommend letting them build it for you, since they tend to forget to send parts in the DIY kit) it kind of a non-issue.<br />

Hope I could help out.<br />

best regards<br />

André

[Guest Caner]

Thank you for your input.

[Guest Caner]

Below is my system I have 2 different setups:<br />

<br />

Synology DS212 -> SBS -> SB Touch -> SPDIF (Coaxial) -> Weiss DAC2 -> GamuT D3i (pre) -> GamuT D200i -> Revel Ultima Salon 2 <br />

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For critical listening I use my MBP, I replaced the optical bay with a SSD drive so it has 2 OCZ Vertex 3 SSDs 240GB each -> Decibel -> FW interface -> GamuT D3i -> GamuT D200i -> Revel Ultima Salon 2. <br />

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Cables are by GamuT (wormholes) and Oyaide Neo for FW interface.<br />

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Needless to say but must confess: I still have goosebumps listening to certain tunes at night; that is how much I enjoy listening to my system (I am known to wake up in the middle of the night and hug the speakers - observed by my spouse with disbelief)<br />

<br />

OK let me get over this and ask you this though, to me the biggest improvement for SB Touch can have is in the domain of detail. I value dynamic range a lot and to my ears, touch is quite good at that, but the detail and seperation is not there. I am looking for ways to improve touch in that domain (It is not as clean as the set up #2 too, but that I think that is harder to fix).<br />

<br />

Will the power supply help me achieve this? Any other tricks that comes to your mind that might help.<br />

<br />

I appreciate your response.<br />

[reverendo]

Caner,<br />

great setup you've got. I'm not sure if the SB Touch will be able to beat the Weiss' excellent FW interface, but with a few tweaks it will, at least, give it a serious run for it's money.<br />

You're using GamuT coax digital cable, is that it?<br />

The biggest improvement came with the external PSU. Some hail Teddy Pardo's or Paul Hynes as the best on the market, but the Welborne served me just fine. I got more depth, height and transparency. I believe it has to do with a much cleaner e steadier PS and thus really helping LFs. I'd say that the rest is just a matter of consequence. Detail got better, since I had a blacker background.<br />

I imagine that you're familiar with Klaus' (Soundcheck) mods SW mods to the Touch. It helped a lot in the detail and transparency department, though a few might find it a little clinical. I, for my part, am liking it very much, since I want to know what's on the recording. The KEFs are ruthlessly revealing (as are your Salons) and the Gryphon does it's job very well.<br />

If you want to make the best of your Touch I'd say you should use it wired. It wasn't a night-and-day difference, but paved the way for other things to pop up.<br />

Hope I could help you out.<br />

best regards<br />

André

[reverendo]

ah, forgot to say that you definitely should use it with a computer, not a NAS Server with squeezecenter on it (if that's how you're using it).

[Guest Caner]

Thanks a ton. Will follow your advice and see what happens.<br />

<br />

Big fan of Gryphon line BTW.<br />

<br />

Best

[Driver 8]

Folks - I'd very much appreciate some advice. I've got a Squeezebox Duet which pulls from a hard drive on which I've got my music in FLAC and WAV. The hard drive is attached to a standard Sony laptop. The Duet runs through a Bryston DAC. What I'm wondering is whether I'd get better sound some other way, be it running the hard drive via USB to a digital player such as the Bryston BDP-1 or some other way. I love the ease of the Duet, including the remote control, but I wonder if I'm limiting myself somehow. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Paul R]

This evening for some reason, the volume control on the T747 got turned up all the way. As I was walking over to check it, I heard a quiet but persistent whine coming through the speakers, pitched at about 3khz. <br />

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Now this was odd, as I was sure I had cranked everything to full volume during installation testing, and I had never heard that before. <br />

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I think I have some more troubleshooting to do to nail it down, but right now I am suspicious of the Touch. <br />

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When an S/PDIF connection from the Touch to the Peachtree DAC*IT is connected, and the Touch is powered and ready, the whine occurs. <br />

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When there is no S/PDIF connection, the whine is not there. <br />

<br />

Confusingly enough, connecting just an optical connection from the Touch to the Peachtree produces the whine. Same is true with a Coax connection. I have not tried a USB connection, or connecting a different source at this time. <br />

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The whine occurs on all inputs to the Peachtree, even if just the Optical (or Coax) is connected. <br />

<br />

Duh... that either points to the Touch or the DAC*IT, but I'm not sure which. The whine is far too high in pitch to be a ground loop hum. <br />

<br />

There is no whine if I feed the analog output of the Touch to the T747. <br />

<br />

Does anyone else with a Touch hear anything like this?<br />

<br />

-Paul<br />