Article: Audiophile Reference Music Server For A Song

[BEEMB]

<br />

The Lynx cards suffer from unacceptable levels of jitter ? Really. I am shocked by this. Isn't it almost an industry standard and very well respected within pro audio circles.<br />

<br />

I'm sure the pace-car is a great product, but, it's a hell of a price and since I'm told that in my system jitter is a "non-issue", I'd be scared to fork out that sort of money to eliminate something that may not make a difference.

[Bull-X]

I want to begin in the computer audio world, but it is very difficult, actually I have a Cary 306 SACD Professional player, that has digital inputs (toslink spdif and AES/EBU), so I can use it like a DAC that can read digital inputs of 44, 96 and 192 khz and HDCD. I have many options:<br />

1.- Sell the Cary and purchase one firewire or usb dac like Weiss Minerva (firewire), Wavelength Cosecant (USB), Empirical Audio Spoiler (USB) or even Red Wine Audio Isabellina (USB nos battery dac). With this option I don't know if those dacs will have an audio quality at the level of the Cary, and furthermore I should to renounce to the possibility of to hear SACD.<br />

2.- To build a fanless PC (which is difficult and expensive) with the Lynx AES16 and use the Cary as a dac with AES/EBU connection.<br />

3.- Purchase a Mac mini and use the Minerva Vesta for firewire to AES/EBU to the Cary.<br />

<br />

What would you choose of this 3 options? <br />

<br />

Chris, for your experience with the Linx AES16 and the digital output of the Weiss Minerva (same as Vesta), what do you feel that is the better option in sound quality, apart of cost?. <br />

<br />

If some of you know the sound of the Cary compared with any of the above DACs (Alpha, Cosecant, Minerva... including the Berkeley Alpha Dac) your comments will be WELCOME.<br />

<br />

Chris, with respect the Berkeley Alpha Dac, what do you think of its digital volume control?, do you think that degrade the sound more than an analog volume control?. Thanks for your advice-comments.<br />

[audiozorro]

Coops, two of my other DACs clearly bested the TC Electronics Konnekt 8 and Apogee Mini DAC.<br />

<br />

Based on a recommendation from Savant Audio and listening tests from myself and others my reference DAC is a Denon DVD-5000. It is the unit that Savant Audio recommends for their high-end systems costing around $100K. It is sometimes available on Audiogon or eBay for around $300-$500. The Denon DVD-5000 should only be used as a DAC only, though using it as a CD player, it is often better than many other highly regarded CD or SACD players in the $2K and under category. It doesn’t do SACD but it does do HDCD and according to CA the HDCD indicator light is a good way for verifying bit perfect playback.<br />

<br />

My other reference DAC is the Benchmark DAC1 USB. The Benchmark DAC1 is truly an industry benchmark by which other DACs are judged. The reviews of the DAC1 have always been good such as here http://6moons.com/audioreviews/benchmark/dac1_2.html which I feel is an honest review. I had the opportunity to own both the DAC1 and DAC1 USB for about a week of testing. Using the toslink connection only for an apples-to-apples comparison, the DAC1 USB was noticeably better. I have not heard the Benchmark DAC1 Pre but I have read some comments that it is slightly improved sonics than previous versions, but there are some i/o connections tradeoffs to consider. There are also some mods to the DAC1 such as those by Empircal Audio have been said to bring improvements in audio fidelity. The only improvement I have made to date is to replace the power cord with a used Shunyata Cobra power cord that I picked up for around $400 and the musical improvement was significant.<br />

<br />

Though I have not heard the Apogee Duet, everyone that has heard both the Apogee Mini DAC ($1,000) and Apogee Duet ($500) seem to prefer the Duet even though it is limited to 24/96. The only exceptions came from individuals that upgraded the power supply of the Mini DAC to a Sigma 11 regulated power supply. I believe that some of the Duet advantage comes from being powered by the computer firewire connection.<br />

[audioengr]

"Do you also find the jitter from the Lynx AES16e card to be unacceptable?"<br />

<br />

I have not heard one, but I expect the same type of design and the same oscillator as in the AES16.<br />

<br />

"What is the additional cost to the suggested CA Windows XP Reference Music Server and in your opinion what sonic benefits will be gained? Will this do anything to diminish or increase the problems reported of blown tweeters with Windows XP?<br />

<br />

The Pace-Car 2 is $1500 and has dual word-clock output for 44.1 and 96. Sonic benefits due to lower jitter are: Less harshness in vocals, better imaging, blacker backgrounds, better focus and improved dynamics, top to bottom. If I had to describe it in one word, it would be improved clarity. It's like cleaning the haze from the window that you are trying to see through.<br />

<br />

The blown tweeters has to do with the D/A not muting properly usually when using USB or Firewire. The Pace-Car 2 does mute the digital signal when it is not valid, so it is possible that in some cases it might help. I have never had this problem with my gear.<br />

<br />

Steve N.<br />

Empirical Audio

[audioengr]

"The Lynx cards suffer from unacceptable levels of jitter ? Really. I am shocked by this. Isn't it almost an industry standard and very well respected within pro audio circles."<br />

<br />

So? I have modded a few pro-audio pieces. I find nothing exceptional about the designs or the parts used. In fact, they are generally inferior I have found to the best audiophile gear. The pro-audio industry needs to improve because the audiophile playback has left them in the dust. The limiter is now the studios and the recordings IMO.<br />

<br />

"I'm sure the pace-car is a great product, but, it's a hell of a price and since I'm told that in my system jitter is a "non-issue", I'd be scared to fork out that sort of money to eliminate something that may not make a difference."<br />

<br />

I am not asking you to buy one. And you have the right to believe whatever you read. <br />

<br />

I have a large backlog of customers, and incidently quite a few are upgrading from Pace-Car to Pace-Car 2. There are two reviewers that use the Pace-Car for their digital audio: Editor of Positive-Feedback, Dave Clark and Editor of Stereo Times, Larry Borden. According to what has been written on-line, customers apparently hear a BIG difference with the Pace-Car as evidenced by this review:<br />

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue39/ramblings_computer.htm<br />

<br />

The way my wife describes it is "unmistakable".<br />

<br />

Steve N.<br />

Empirical Audio<br />

[audioengr]

"I want to begin in the computer audio world, but it is very difficult, actually I have a Cary 306 SACD Professional player, that has digital inputs (toslink spdif and AES/EBU), so I can use it like a DAC that can read digital inputs of 44, 96 and 192 khz and HDCD. I have many options:<br />

1.- Sell the Cary and purchase one firewire or usb dac like Weiss Minerva (firewire), Wavelength Cosecant (USB), Empirical Audio Spoiler (USB) or even Red Wine Audio Isabellina (USB nos battery dac). With this option I don't know if those dacs will have an audio quality at the level of the Cary, and furthermore I should to renounce to the possibility of to hear SACD."<br />

<br />

First, the Spoiler is no longer available. It has been replaced by the SS Overdrive USB DAC.<br />

<br />

Second, a comparison is easy. It turns-out that Dave Clark, editor of Positive-Feedback has the same Cary player-DAC that you do and he uses the Pace-Car with it and a Macbook (see last post for link). I have heard the Cary DAC and you can do a lot better, but if you like the sound, then keep it and just drive it with a low-jitter source.<br />

<br />

Steve N.<br />

[emw]

Could one help me and guide me what kind of posibilities are available for remote controlling a XP music server.<br />

<br />

I was always looking towards a MAC based system for easy remote control, but the combination with a Lynx AES16 card would mean hugh investments in MacPro maschine.<br />

<br />

But I do have an old XP PC sitting around which I could transfer into a music server by adding the Lynx AES16 card.<br />

<br />

So all help is wellcome.<br />

<br />

Best...EMW

[cfmsp]

<br />

"I was always looking towards a MAC based system for easy remote control, but the combination with a Lynx AES16 card would mean hugh investments in MacPro maschine."<br />

<br />

You can use the Lynx AES16 in any Mac desktop that has a PCI or PCI-X slot.<br />

<br />

You can buy Powermac G5s or G4s easily on ebay for roughly the same price as the 'cheap Dell'. There is NO need to run the Lynx on XP.<br />

<br />

Given the quality decline in Dell over the years, I'd trust an older Mac over a new Dell. <br />

<br />

Enjoy,<br />

Clay<br />

[Uzeb]

Hey audiozorro<br />

<br />

A little off topic here<br />

I am curious since I also own a TC Electronics Konnekt 8 which I use as a digital interface for my computer.<br />

Have you tried your Konnekt 8 digitally into your Benchmark DAC1 or Denon DVD-5000. If so what is your opinion on the SQ<br />

<br />

If not it maybe worthwhile endeavor because although the Konnekt 8 may have a mediocre DAC chip it has the same FW and jitter reduction circuits as the Weiss Minerva and Vesta. The digital out is limited to 96khz but really for now there is sparse 192 media available. <br />

<br />

Myself I find the sound I am getting with the Konnekt 8 digital out into the tact 2150's is amazing and easily best my previous HQ source a Levinson 39 directly feeding a Krell KSA150.<br />

<br />

regards<br />

<br />

Uzeb<br />

<br />

[cfmsp]

<br />

ASB said:<br />

<br />

"Lynx is worth giving a try. As Chris says it is really audiophile quality but not audiophile prices. Also it is without the hassles of USB/Firewire connections."<br />

<br />

I'm curious what is meant by 'hassles of Firewire connections".<br />

<br />

Frankly, installing a Lynx is several orders of magnitude MORE of a hassle than Firewire.<br />

First you must install the card, and it can only be used in a computer with a PCI slot, and then you have all those extra cables hanging off the card (picking up only God knows what).<br />

<br />

For firewire, I just connect a cable between my computer and DAC.<br />

<br />

Oh, and it costs $700 more than my firewire cable.<br />

<br />

enjoy,<br />

clay<br />

<br />

[The Computer Audiophile]

<br />

<i>"Oh, and it costs $700 more than my firewire cable."</i><br />

<br />

That's a god one Clay. All in good fun of course :-)

[cfmsp]

<br />

<br />

Yes, Chris, absolutely 'all in good fun'.<br />

<br />

I could care less what systems others use or how much they invest.<br />

<br />

As near as I can tell, their is not 'truth' in the subjective pursuit we could call audiophilia.<br />

<br />

It's all opinions. Yours, mine, Ashley's, Mike's, whomever.<br />

<br />

Thanks for sharing yours so eloquently and frequently.<br />

<br />

enjoy,<br />

clay<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

[audiozorro]

Uzeb, the Konnekt 8 doesn’t get much play in my system. I keep it around thinking one day I may want to digitize some of my LPs at 24/192. But, if I had to do it all over again I would probably settle for 24/96 recording with the Apogee Duet.<br />

<br />

I don’t think I tried the combinations you suggested, but I once tried the Konnekt 8 feeding the Apogee Mini DAC to ensure that it was outputting 24/192. The Apogee Mini DAC was the only DAC I had that displayed all the resolutions, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192 with LEDs. I believe I preferred the sound of just using the firewire connection from my MacBook Pro to the Apogee Mini DAC instead of adding the Konnekt 8 to the signal path.<br />

<br />

I agree with your assessment that the Konnekt 8 has a mediocre DAC. I also believe that both the Konnekt 8 and Apogee Mini DAC would benefit if used with an external clock, such as the Apogee Big Ben. I don’t know the sonic qualities of inputting the digital signal to the firewire input of the Konnekt 8 and outputting through the coaxial output to another DAC, but I’m glad your setup sounds amazing.<br />

<br />

[kana813]

If I was going use a Lynx AES16, I'd spend the extra money and put it in an Dell Optiplex.<br />

<br />

If I was starting a new PC audio system. I'd wait for the new PSAudio system due out 2/08. See their November newsletter for more info.<br />

<br />

While wait for I wait for the PSAudio gear, I'm enjoying <br />

AIFF files on my Apple TV/iTouch combo running through an upgraded Genesis Digital Lens. No PC required for playback.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Dan - I'm wondering why you'd go with the Optiplex?

[audioengr]

"Have you tried your Konnekt 8 digitally into your Benchmark DAC1 or Denon DVD-5000. If so what is your opinion on the SQ"<br />

<br />

I had a Konnect in the system last weekend and we compared it to my own USB converters. From what I had read on the DiceII chip and the JET jitter reduction technology, we had high hopes. Well, it's not even close to a good USB implementation I'm sorry to say. It is not asynchronous, so it is similar to typical USB interfaces. It can probably sound better than this particular device, but it comes down to implementation. The Konnect board has a lot of deficiencies IMO, not to mention a really cheap clock. What do you expect for $100?<br />

<br />

Steve N.

[kana813]

Chris-<br />

<br />

The Optiplex has more room for extra drives and has much lower PSU noise level.<br />

<br />

I use a 2.4Ghz Optiplex 745 with two 500G HDs and 4G of ram that I got for under $900. as my main PC. It feeds an SD Duet upgraded by A.R.T. , when I want to access more music than my 160g Apple TV.

[airdronian]

I'll agree that the higher end optiplex will have a lower noise floor than the Inspiron. When I upgraded my main system I chose an Antech Sonata II for the case a couple years ago. Huge difference, and one of the other boxes here is now unusable for me because of the noise factor. Best choice of my upgrade.<br />

<br />

That said, Chris' selection was all about getting a pc that could do the job for the least money. The pc demands for this sort of application are low, it's the i/o that is important, hence the Lynx selection. This was all known hardware, not vaporware. The real work was the testing, testing and more testing. And we get to benefit.<br />

<br />

Yes Windows XP will be riding off into the sunset - eventually. Just remember that you'll be able to move the antivirus tasks to your firewall at some point (meaning economically for home users, it's already in the SMB and Enterprise space) and if you keep the XP box off the internet it could have an even longer reliable life. One of the (several) reasons Vista has met with some resistance is that XP is a mature OS and for the most part just works.<br />

<br />

As for me I will be looking to moving from server system v1.0 to at least v1.5 in 2009, thanks in large part to the ideas I get in this forum.<br />

<br />

Thanks to all for the constructive comments, and to Chris for all the work.<br />

<br />

<br />

[Uzeb]

"What do you expect for $100?"<br />

Where does the $100.00 come from. Sells for around $300.00 any place I look and considering the volume TC sells there maybe some economy's of scale in relation to value for the dollar vs Audiophile equipment. <br />

<br />

Steve I have followed your work with great interest and have put faith in many things you have written in different forums. But I have also noticed that you trash almost everything whilst promoting your equipment. <br />

<br />

Since there is such a backlog of orders for pace cars maybe you can recommend some other set-ups you think work well.<br />

<br />

<br />

Regards Uzeb<br />

<br />

[airdronian]

Dug this out of the forums here....<br />

<br />

This was from March 2008, and yes Chris you did get to it !<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

Thanks for the post<br />

Thanks for the post Donkeyshins. I'll try to offer an equivalent PC model next time. I've been a little hesitant because I don't like the non-bit perfect issues on PCs. No worries though, I'll get to it.<br />

<br />

[The Computer Audiophile]

Ha! You guys are the best!

[tfarney]

Great work, Chris. Still, given my belief that bit-perfect is, well, bit-perfect, the cheapest solution is a dedicated hard drive connected to an existing computer. A Terabyte is about 200 bucks. You could mirror for backup, download the latest version of iTunes and still be at lest than half the the cost of the budget system. But clearly, you're hearing things that I cannot.<br />

<br />

Old iBook G4 > Western Digital > whatever...<br />

<br />

Tim

[darrenwm]

We ordered a new Dell for business use and it was too noisy. <br />

<br />

It was so noisy in fact that we had a repair agent out who changed something to do with the fan.<br />

<br />

Even still, it's big, non-silent, ugly and grey.<br />

<br />

However, I'm happy you've found a level of performance this high for a modest outlay.<br />

<br />

Personally I'll stick with my Mini connected straight into my speakers and controlled with iPod Touch for the home.<br />

<br />

Regards

[Purite Audio]

The adm's do make ideal computer speakers.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Darren - Fortunately all Dells are not the same. The one I used in this system is very low power and low heat. Thus, the noise may be quite a bit lower than the specific Dell you ordered. But, my cheap Dell is certainly not silent. You are correct that this is a high level of performance for a modest outlay. Thanks for the post.