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USB 24/96 and higher.


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Can Chris or Gordon or someone who knows about this please help me and correct me? I thought I knew what I was talking about, but it looks like I was wrong.

 

I was under the assumption that USB 1.1, CANNOT support 24/96.

I can't seem to find it, but I could have swore I read somewhere that even though technically it is capable at enumeration, that the bandwidth "reservations" part of the protocol due to the CPU won't allow it. I've heard the rumors that 24/96 USB 1.1 DACS while technically capable of it, actually can't go no higher 44.1 due to the CPU's protocol.

 

Please help me understand this, so I can quit looking like an idiot, and stop misleading people. I'm so confused now that I'm getting ready to get "Elvis" on my Imac and put a 44 slug through that thing.

 

UPDATE: I know someone's gonna say it, yes I use a Imac and yes I use firewire, and I shouldn't be concerned with USB 1.1, but I just dropped a %$#@! of loot on gear and am trying to get a working grasp of this whole computer audio thing.

 

~AaronB

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Not all USB interfaces support 24/96. Empirical Audio and some Wavelength interfaces do.

 

To get to 24/192 it requires a custom S/W driver, which is also possible. There is nothing inherent in the USB interface that should limit this, just the chips that are currently available and the Windows/Mac drivers.

 

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

 

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Thanks guys, I really do appreciate your help. I mean I really do. I started down this road about a year ago, and after the whole computer audio education, no one warned me about bud-light drinking, overcharging, contractors that you bring in to hardwire your home gigabyte ethernet. So if I seem a little edge, please forgive me. My nerves are shot. I'm already $5k into this, with no end in site. Even though he hasn't said anything more about money, which I'll refuse to pay, but now he's saying he's gotta attach some box to the outside of my house. Arghh! Anyways, back to my original question, thanks for any help you guys can give. Just trying to get my knowledge straightened out here. Thanks.

 

~AaronB

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Gang,

 

Here is the real truth...

 

Any Computer with USB 1.1 or 2.0 can support 24/96 if the endpoint (DAC in this case) has that ability. There are instances with certain Windows and Linux systems were something have to be done or upgraded to support this.

 

USB Class 2.0 does support native (non driver) to litterally anything including 24/192 and above. This is supported today ONLY under MAC OSX 10.5.x and is not supported under Windows or Linux.

 

Many companies are ahead of Microsoft on this one and use Markus's drivers to implement their dacs/adc's via a driver he wrote which allows Class 2.0 hardware to work under Windows.

 

No Windows 7 will not have Class 2.0 support.

 

USB 1.1 cannot support 24/192 because the data rate exceeds the amount of data per frame (1ms or 1000 times a second) which is limited to 1023 bytes of data. This is true even with a custom device driver as you can easily see that 24/192 would require 1152 bytes per frame (i.e. 6 bytes [24 bit stereo =48 bits or 6 bytes] *192=1152).

 

24/96 only requires as you can see 576 byte per frame and is capable with any computer that can keep up with this. Which in my studies is anything current.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

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Alright guys, I now think I'm officially straightened out here.

 

I can't praise you guys enough for taking the time to help the chumps out there like me.

 

Chris, may the wind always be at your back, and all your children grow up to be doctors. You need to post a P.O. Box so we can send you a box of See's candies to show our gratitude.

 

Steve N. and Gordon, Empirical Audio and Wavelength will definitely be #1 on the short list when I go to buy new gear. Viva la Wavelength and Empirical!!!! Shout it from the rafters!!!

 

joel/joel, I just love you man.

 

Thanks again gang! I'm now gonna go pick a fight with my contractor and play with my new ReadyNAS Pro until my head explodes and I slip into a 2 week long comma from confusion. Have a great weekend!

 

~AaronB

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Thanks again! Maybe you can at least help me in my contracting mess. Without getting into gory detail, I was basically going to hardwire my home for 10/100 ethernet for all the obvious reasons. Did some surfing around and was almost considering doing a DIY thing. Doesn't seem that difficult. Fast Forward. In hearing that FIOS could possibly be coming to our area soon (eastern NC) and after discussing this with my future ex-wife, I decided to go with a contractor and get it professionally done. Again for all the obvious reasons. Everything will be clean and tidy and professionally done.

 

3400 square foot house. 3 bedrooms, great room, kitchen, garage, den, and game room where my stereo is located. 1 outlet each for den & garage. 2 outlets each for all the bedrooms and kitchen. 3 outlets each for game room and great room. Total of 16 outlets. 16 outlet switch. PERFECT. Or so I thought..........

 

Contractor told me hardwire wise not including switch plates and wiring was modem-Firewall-switch-UPS. I knew this already. Running Cat6 cable. I'm thinking gigabit not knowing about the internals of FIOS and since it's not in our area yet, who cares? Gave me a estimate of $1750 out the door. Two 6 hour days. Not bad I said. Future proofing the house. Let's do this.

 

Fast Forward. I mention FIOS to the contractor, That's all it took for my pants to come down around my ankles. Those 4 little letters. I basically explained to him I was future proofing the house and I'm sure I'll go with FIOS when and if it gets here. Enter whatever a OTN box is. Something fibery on the outside of my house. I've googled it and yet to still come up with a clear cut answer. Something about a switch box for the fiber from the street to communicate with the cat6 in the house. He said I could pay for the proprietary FIOS one when it gets here, or he could install one (according to him I could now have a choice between Sprint and/or FIOS whenever Sprint gets here) (They are supposedly on the way too with their EMBARQ stuff).

 

Now we're up to $5200 for this stuff and FIOS and/or Embarq could still probably be 3 years out for all this stuff for all I know. And he can't start yet because he has to check with the city for something. He actually told me what it was, but I just stood there in a daze and can't remember actually what it was. My future ex-wife says to just do it and get it over with. Adds resale value to the house she says.

 

Does this sound right? Verizon can't seem to tell me anything. And since I can't seem to find a good definitive website explaining this, I guess there's no turning back. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks for all the help again you can offer. God this website rocks. I've made it my home page now. Gonna start drinking heavily, I swear it.

 

 

 

 

~AaronB

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Hi Aaron - Glad to help where I can. You will need the ONT box outside your house, but there is no way in h**l I would have anyone but Verizon install it at this point. Since the price is pretty high you want to make sure you get the right equipment. This is not like purchasing a cable modem at BestBuy and figuring out it is incompatible with your current cable ISP. Verizon is likely to heavily subsidize the ONT box because they will make up the price through your monthly charges. Word on the street is that Verizon will remove all standard cabling to your house if you choose FiOS because they want to recoup their time and money investment before you change your mind and switch back. Anyway, here is a little info on the ONT box.

 

 

 

 

The Optical Network Terminal (ONT) translates the pulses of light that carry the data over the fiber optic cable into electric signals that are recognized by your router. The box has fiber in one side and copper out the other side. If you wired your whole house with fiber you wouldn't need this box, but you would need a fiber compatible router :-)

 

 

 

ONT Box

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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Chris, as usual you da man!

Yeah, I'm 86ing the whole ONT box thing for now. Save money, and like you said, Verizon and/or Sprint is gonna want to do their own thing I'm sure, if and when they get here. Just gonna go with regular gigabit ethernet.

I called my contractor but all I got was his voicemail, so when he calls me back, gonna get all this straightened out.

 

Thanks again man, you rock!

 

And joel/joel thanks for the compliments! Now I'm blushing! Keep on keepin on my man!

 

~AaronB

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just one question, if you're looking to future-proof as much as possible, why are you looking at a 10/100 switch inside the house instead of a gigabit switch? Or is it simply down to the old cash flow? Whilst gigabit isn't actually needed for music or even video delivery, it is rather thrilling to transfer a gig of data in 10 seconds :) As you appear to be on a spending spree [seething jealousy] I am presuming that your computers have gigabit cards, and if they don't, your next lot will. I also presume that the ONT that you're contemplating for the future (and I agree with Chris, get the official bods to install it) will be 2-4 Gig [more seething jealousy] so it would be a pity to bottleneck it at your switch. Your CAT6 runs will be the same regardless. It is expensive having cabling done professionally, but it does look a lot better (unless you're a professional builder/plasterer/carpenter yourself). I've wired my house myself, and it looks..um...well...most of the CAT6 is blue and most of the house is blue so it kinda matches...and I kinda like visible wires...and I keep the lights low most of the time...and as the woman of the house I didn't need to get The Wife's permission so that's an advantage :) Oh, and make sure you've counted ports for things like PS3s, X-Boxs, Blu-ray players etc. Damn tedious having to wire in more ports after the event.

 

Just my 0.02 Euros...and a love of spending other people's money!

 

Alcina

 

 

Alix/Voyage mpd -> Valab NOS DAC (modded) -> Linn Majic I -> B&W CM7

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