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Audiophiles lack of respect.

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That's exactly what a founding member of "Human League"and "Heaven 17" said to me about this clip.

He loves his numerous model helis.




How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.


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"A large segment of the population see "audiophiles" as a fringe element that take things to the extreme with little results to show for the perceived fanaticism."


And I am sure we all have gone through the experience of telling a friend that there are people who spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars/euros on USB cables, and watching their reactions. Usually it is not "Wow! I have to try that too!".


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Barry's post explains perfectly why many recordings from the 50's and 60's sound great even today. They may be lacking in the extreme low and high frequencies, but they often were recorded by people who understood what MUSIC should sound like, and how to use their equipment to get that sound.


So even with "inferior" equipment, they made recordings that are a pleasure to listen to 5 or 6 decades later.


So as an audiophile who knows little about recording techniques, I see no reason not to tell an "audio recording professional" that his CD sounds like volume compressed garbage - when it does.


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All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Thanks for the link to this article Melvin.


A superb article. Brilliantly written. Factual. Timely and spot on for the times.


At the end of the day tweeking, changing component's, spending mega buck's upgrading..I mean at the end of the day, does it really matter!!


What matters is the music people. Are you enjoying the music! If you are spending way to much time getting that latest DSD firmware to download and run, or worrying if those new 10K speakers make a difference, (then wasting time taking them back to exchange them)...you are missing out on enjoying the music..!


I went to a 50th the other day and the DJ rocked the place till 4am, all off an imac streaming youtube requests via toslink out to powered speakers...


Nobody could care less. They rocked till they dropped..


That's what it's all about folks. For goodness sake don't forget to enjoy the music!




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GreaseMonkey-I am not a fan of MP3, by any stretch of the imagination. But, (you can for free) please try the first song from the soundtrack, "Oh Brother Where Art Thou". I think for MP3 at 320, it is fairly decent sounding.


edit: Sorry, I meant from MOG


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While awaiting his new Focal Stella speakers, and a stack Mark Levinson HT/Hi-Fi gear, I convinced my friend to hook up hi $48,000 Nordost Odin speaker cables to his little B&W studio/office speakers. They are connected to a Marantz receiver and 65" Runco plasma. The sound shocked me how much it was an improvement over his stock office cables. $48,000 worth of an improvement? Well that depends on the person's perceived value. I don't read or hear about people who spend $100-200K on cars being ridiculed (not where I live that is). There really is no argument in favor of spending a lot of disposable income on toys and hobbies. Most who I know that are able to purchase large, do not seek validation from the "99%".


Alpha Dog>Audirvana+>Light Harmonic Geek>MacBook Pro> Sound Application Reference>Modwright Oppo 105>Concert Fidelity CF 080 preamp>Magnus MA 300 amp>Jena labs and Prana Wire cables>Venture CR-8 Signature[br]

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"How would audiophiles respond if a mixing engineer sat them in front of a mixing console and asked them to adjust the equalization of a guitar on a specific track so it cuts through the mix better?"


Not all so is simple, as it seems to non-professionals. But some audiophiles (who often listens live music in halls) may be right. Professionals don't need to take offense at once. Some councils probably should be taken into consideration.



"The masses listen to music while they work, drive and do household chores."


At big part of time I listen music while drive. But I like it in hi-quality ant I listen little details of record.




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"There really is no argument in favor of spending a lot of disposable income on toys and hobbies."


Why on earth not, if you want to? By its very name, disposable income is, uh, disposable. At a very minimum it provides work for employess, profit for factory owners and shareholders, and enjoyment for you. I am not going to give any to 'starving' countries, where they use it to buy guns and Toyota pickups to mount them on rather than spend it on farming development. What would you spend it on?


And spending 100K on a car seems more sensible to me that spending half that on two pieces of wire. Perhaps your friend has already got a 100K car, which is also a toy?



But each to their own.


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""The masses listen to music while they work, drive and do household chores."


So true...which means to me, audiophiles, musicians or engineers are not to blame, its the internet, streaming music, uneducated people, and people who just want to listen to music that best suits their needs, their wallet and their ears. Archer is truly lost in his own article, Notice how the article refers to the music industry, but the title refers to the audio industry.


If he wants to blame someone blame the Consumers. The masses walk around with iPod devices and they like what they hear. Music today is being derived to support the masses. How quick people forget, The Customer is Always Right', that's business 101 (making money)and Sales and Marketing forces will do everything to ensure that's what's going to happen. Audiophiles at fault, bull.


The Truth Is Out There

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Seems to specialize in shocking, but misleading and poorly thought out articles.


I suspect it is how the get publicity, a model much like The National Enquirer, sold at supermarkets everywhere. Just my opinion from reading what is available on their website(s). YMMV.





Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I get the impression that whoever wrote that article doesn't see the difference between doing ones best and doing the best. Just because someone is doing their best does not mean it's in any way good.


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What do you think you are? Everyone, including all the people here are 'the consumers' and 'the masses' a whole lot of the time. Even brain surgeons buy things. Some even go to football games.


'uneducated' people. What educational standards do they have to reach to be honoured by our company? I just went to the supermarket. Now I am going to while away some time until we go to the game this evening by doing fast Fourier transforms in my head, then a touch of Dostoevski, just the same as my neighbour when he has finished throwing a stick to his dog.


"people who just want to listen to music that best suits their needs, their wallet and their ears" That's me. And you.


"How quickly people forget" Some even forget that guys like Mozart, Handel, Brahms, and like wrote 'popular' music. It they did not, they starved. They did not sit down to write a classical piece. The word 'classical' when applied to music, is purely a modern invention.


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"Why on earth not, if you want to?"

I am all in favor of spending, believe me! What I ment it is kind of silly in the grand scheme of things (Dafur, etc..) to spend so much money on toys when it could go to feed the poor and unfortunate in this day and age, personaly speaking for myself. Do I feel quilty? Sometimes. Do I still spend? Ubetcha.



Alpha Dog>Audirvana+>Light Harmonic Geek>MacBook Pro> Sound Application Reference>Modwright Oppo 105>Concert Fidelity CF 080 preamp>Magnus MA 300 amp>Jena labs and Prana Wire cables>Venture CR-8 Signature[br]

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"Everyone, including all the people here are 'the consumers' and 'the masses' a whole lot of the time."


No. You are wrong. Everyone knows™ that Audiophiles® are Better People. Smarter. Better educated. With impeccable taste and sophistication. No mere "ordinary people". We don't listen to no stinking pirated mp3's on some crummy ipod on the tram!



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But these 'soldiers' in their ill-fitting uniforms and with the Toyota pickup mounted guns are not wealthy people, just poor tribesmen like the rest. But they get fed. And how does the 'Guvment' afford these things? From our donations.


I'm in the UK. I do give a little to the 'Salvation Army'. They are a semi-religious organisation that support alcoholic down-and-outs and similar. There but for the grace of (insert favoured imaginary deity) go all of us. And I don't see the Salvation Army buying pickup trucks and machine guns. They do, so I believe, make the down-and-outs pray a little.


On a typical weekend I get about seven neatly folded bags for old clothes donations from 'charity' groups I have never heard of. How many old clothes do they think we have got?


Our Government is good with charity donations. Every few million pounds collected for an expensive scanner or whatever they match. By cutting the hospitals budget by the same amount :)


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""A large segment of the population see "audiophiles" as a fringe element...


I'd venture a guess that most people have no clue what an audiophile is or what the term means."


I would venture an estimate that when I am selling to a non audiophile that over 90% ALL say to me "I am not an audiophile so I don't need to go crazy here". Seriously, if I had a dollar for every person that has said that.I think you'd be very surprised at how many people are very well aware of the term AND what that term implies.



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"Let me guess - something very much like "train spotter"? :)"


But probably not as obscure as "train spotter" (at least here in the states) to be honest with you! I have a friend that did that when he was growing up in the UK. He still has his lists, etc.



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The problem could be since there are too many bad recording engineers...


I do agree with Barry Diament, sometimes music players wants a lot of edition, et al, on their recordings, that could result in a final very bad SQ, if the engineer allows this.


Once upon a time... as a music lover, I had nice microphones (AKG) and some gear to make some 'home recordings'. A brother's friend guitarist wanted I record him, when he got some weekend in to my home, and saw no editing & mixing console, he didn't allowed me the recording. BTW, he was a very bad guitar player...


Regarding 'the lack of respect' I believe we have the right to criticize recordings, since we pay good money for them.


Background and elevator music listeners is another history.


Carpe Musica,




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It seems modern engineers, especially in Rock and Pop, don't worry about proper setup and microphone placement as they can always "fix it in the mix". I always thought this was stupid boneheaded thinking.


I'd be ashamed of myself If I were the engineer of a recording in which a guitar part is obscured and instead of resorting to equalization I would want to find out what the hell I did wrong, actually rerecord it correctly and then try not to make the same mistake again.


If engineers pretended like they were recording "Direct to Disc" maybe they might make correct decisions and not lean on the crutch of "fixing it in the mix". I really wished editing and mixing tools were never invented. And that is why I feel is one of the major reasons recordings of the 1950's and 1960's are more musical as there were less tools at the engineer's disposal to mess up the music!


I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.


I still love music.



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Hi Teresa,


You mentioning the all too common "fix it in the mix" reminds me of something I put in a newsletter I put out for mastering clients many years ago. I realized this early on in my career as an engineer:


The Three Most Heard Phrases In Recording

1. In the recording phase: "We'll fix it in the mix"

2. In the mixing phase: "We'll catch it in the mastering"

3. In the mastering phases: "They'll never hear it at home"


Of course, any careful listener, regardless of their system, knows they'll most definitely hear it at home.


Too many experiences, too many stories - that would be funny if they weren't sad. Or maybe they're both.


Like the time a certain major rock band used seven microphones just on the snare drum of the drummer's kit. I won't mention the band or the album but that is one of the most distorted snare drums I've ever heard in a recording and could have been significantly bettered with the built-in mic on a portable cassette machine. That same band's producer used to say "the meters don't matter", to which I always thought "the evidence of the recording says otherwise". They also spent three days --at several hundred dollars an hour!-- on the reverb for that distorted snare drum.


I don't think it is the editing and mixing tools that are to blame. And the reason many recordings from over half a century are more musical (I'll add more real) is also, in my opinion, not because there were fewer tools but precisely because those engineers asked what I've referred to as "the questions" -- and didn't proceed until they had very good answers.


Experiences like watching folks put seven mics on a snare drum were educational for me. When I started as an engineer's assistant, the fellow I worked for used seven mics on an entire drum set (not an uncommon number, even today). A year or so later, when I got my first shot in the main chair, I tried three mics on the set and found a much more satisfying and realistic sound (both to myself as well as the producer of that session). Today, I use zero mics on the drum set. (!) And, if I do say so myself (happily, I'm not alone in this), the results sound much more like being in the presence of the drummer during the recording.


How, you might be wondering, can one record drums with zero mics on the drum set? Easy. My approach, whether direct to stereo as I do the Soundkeeper Recordings, or in my own variation of multitracking, is to mic the event instead of mic'ing the instruments. ;-}


Best regards,






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As today is/was Dynamic Range Day, I'll post the link to the homepage.


Dynamic Range Day


There is a lot of great info available and linked from the page.


Dynamic Range Day is organized by Mastering Engineer Ian Shepherd, a long-standing opponent of the “Loudness Wars”.

Ian Shepherd's own page Production Advice gives a great view into the world of our professional allied fighting the Loudness War.


Production Advice


Bob Katz gives another great insight into the professional fight against the Loudness War

(127th AES Convention 2009):


Bob Katz about the "loudness war" part 1 of 3


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