One more time lion and integer mode

[Weerstandje]

We all know Lion no longer allows to drive our USB-dacs in integer-mode as it was in Snow-Leopard. As it seems the new Mountain-Lion will not enable integer-mode either.

As far as it is possible to know these things about apple, did they add extra code into Lion to actually and purposely prevent integer-mode? (is it possible to know that). Maybe because they see it rather as a hack then a feature? Especially with the coming even tighter security in Mountain-Lion. After all in integer mode apple's own audio engine is sort of bypassed (excuse me if I say this technically incorrect).

Or would it be something that is changed in lion for other reasons, with as a secondary result that integer-mode is no longer available but Apple did not bother to correct that yet.

 

If it is the first, then we will never see integer mode again. If the second then there is still hope. Is there any way to see in Lion (code) what Apples thought is behind making integer-mode impossible.

 

N.B.

For me integer mode in Snow Leopard gives clearer projected instruments in a more defined soundstage. More so then what I would get with spending money on upgrades of gear, cables or tweaks.

 

[alcarp]

"For me integer mode in Snow Leopard gives clearer projected instruments in a more defined soundstage. "

 

Weerstandje,

 

Have you compared Lion on a new 2011 mac running in 32-bit float mode with SL on an older mac running in integer mode? Is SL still superior?

 

[elcorso]

There are ways to downgrade to SL, please visit Apple forums, it looks difficult but isn't.

 

I do agree with you regarding the SQ superiority of Integer mode.

 

Some people find more 'resolution' from Lion (non integer capable), but what you get is more noise. Is like to compare the USB output to the Toslink one.

 

And I don't think Apple OS will implement Integer anymore, but don't ask me why. I really don't know, but we audiophiles on Macs are a minority compared to the whole Mac market, most of them on MP3

 

Roch

 

[Jud]

did they add extra code into Lion to actually and purposely prevent integer-mode?

 

* * *

 

Or would it be something that is changed in lion for other reasons, with as a secondary result that integer-mode is no longer available but Apple did not bother to correct that yet.

 

A bit of a combination of the two. They purposely added code to fix another bug, which caused integer mode to no longer be available. They have said they have no current intention, despite software developers' and others' requests, to try to bring integer mode back (perhaps it would unavoidably bring back the bug?). Thus it is not an absolute, categorical, perpetual "No," but pretty nearly. So I wouldn't look to Apple for the solution.

 

There are specific items I like better regarding the SQ on Lion (e.g., transients), but overall I think Snow Leopard with integer mode is closer to the real thing. There are folks, including Gordon Rankin, who prefer the overall SQ of Lion. I should note Gordon attributes this at least in part to Lion being "full" 64 bit, and I have enabled a 64-bit kernel in Snow Leopard, rendering the two OSs equivalent on that score, so this may have something to do with my preference for Snow Leopard.

 

The way to improve SQ on Lion and beyond appears to depend on software developers writing third party drivers that will allow integer mode or something similar.

 

[Miska]

Nothing prevents people from bringing ASIO back to Macs. It was used for pre-OSX (OS 8/9) and it shouldn't be huge effort to support it, other than writing custom device drivers that don't go through the CoreAudio at all... That's already being done for Windows by pro-audio manufacturers, so wouldn't be much different.