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    My Quest for a New DAC, Part 3 - Denafrips Terminator

    In this installment of my article series on my quest for a new DAC, I'll be evaluating the Denafrips Terminator. When I revealed my shortlist and the criteria by which I selected DACs I'd evaluate, the Terminator was easily the one for which I received the most questions and anticipation. Clearly, this DAC has many people intrigued. And why not? On paper, it appears to deliver formidable value for its cost (US MSRP $4299).

     

    But let's back up. I first heard about this DAC, and the company, in the weeks leading up to AXPONA 2018. A friend alerted me to the fact that Gingko Audio's room at AXPONA would have a demo setup comparing the entire lineup of Denafrips DACs. Intrigued, I showed up for one of these demos, and came away quite impressed with what I heard. The Terminator, in particular, made a very positive impression on me, despite the usual suboptimal show setting. And its price point was right in line with my budget.

     

    I mentioned my interest to Chris, a request was made and - yada, yada, yada - a gigantic box eventually showed up at my doorstep, sent to me by Mike Powell, the newly appointed US distributor for Denafrips. Mike impressed me by insisting he personally burn in the unit at his end until he was satisfied it was at its peak sonic quality. Gotta respect that level of dedication!

     

     

    Form and Function

     

    This thing is called the Terminator, and ja, it's a beast! At 19kg/42lbs, it tested my back and knees as I wrestled it onto my rack. It won, as my back was sore for a week afterwards. But enough about my lack of core conditioning.

     

    The enclosure looks very elegant to my eyes, with a minimalist front panel design. My review unit was in black, and reminded me of a stealth bomber. The display LEDs are little pinpoints of red, and have a narrow field of display, so from most angles, they're barely visible. This thing is clearly built to be heard, rather than seen. This is a positive in my book. Compared to components whose displays can be bright enough to read by, I'll take Denafrips' approach any day!

     

    In fact, the only button I actually used on the front panel was switching between NOS (non oversampling) and OS mode. More on this later.

     

     

    denafrips-terminator-001.jpg

     

     

     

     

    The Terminator comes with a full complement of inputs (RCA and BNC coax, Toslink, USB, 2x AES/EBU, and I2S via both HDMI and RJ-45). The analog outputs include both single-ended RCA and fully-balanced XLRs.

     

     

    denafrips-terminator-002.jpg

     

     

     

     

     

    Let's talk about why I was intrigued by this DAC. First, the table stakes. This DAC checks all my fairly modest functional requirements of:

     

    ●  PCM support upto 384 kHz,

    ●  DSD support up to DSD256 native, DSD128 (DoP), over USB.

     

     

    More intriguing is its proprietary R2R + DSD architecture, as I've never really spent quality time with a topnotch R2R DAC other than the Schiit Yggdrasil. As regular readers of my series may have learned about me, I put a lot of value on, and give much credence to, the clock architecture, the PSU design, and the analog stage of a DAC. The Terminator uses Crystek CCHD-957 clocks. These are fairly well regarded, although certainly not the last word in low phase noise.

     

     

    denafrips-terminator-003.jpg

     

     

     

     

    What about PSUs? This is far more exciting since, nestling under the hood are separate transformers (and PSUs) for the digital and analog stages of the DAC. A 60VA unit for digital duties, and a beefy 250VA unit for the analog stage. Now we know what's in the belly of the beast!

     

    You can read the full specifications on the Denafrips website.

     

     

    Listening Evaluations

     

    In addition to Mike's thoughtful burn in prior to sending me the unit, my Terminator received several hundred more hours of burn-in because it arrived just a few days after the Ayre QX-8, creating an evaluation logjam. Such are my first-world problems! Suffice it to say that by the time I did any critical listening to the Terminator, it was sounding its best.

     

    And boy, does it sound good! While every aspect of its performance is above reproach, its defining characteristics are solidity, density, dynamism, and outstanding bass. Not only is this thing a physical beast, but a sonic one too. It takes music by the scruff of its neck and tells it who's boss.

     

    ram.jpgFed some Daft Punk, like the Giorgio Moroder track on Random Access Memories (24/88.2), the Terminator lays down a dense, rich, detailed tapestry of sound, with every instrument rooted in their spot in the soundstage. The low end is particularly satisfying, and even someone like me with 2 left feet can't help but jump off my chair and start moving to the beat.

     

    I hasten to add that while deep bass and a dense soundstage are its particular strengths, the Terminator does not lack in any other areas. Tonally, this is a rich, even a dark sounding DAC, with a smooth and resolving top end. And when the music gets complex, like a large Mahler symphony, there is not a hint of muddiness or congestion.

     

    As I've explained, my listening tends to be predominantly classical, but I do enjoy pop and rock, especially prog-rock from the 60s and 70s. One delightful outcome with the Terminator was that I listened to a lot of non-classical music with a new level of enjoyment.

     

    If you're of a certain age, like I am, where you remember iconic rock albums in their originally released vinyl form, you'll also remember the apparent disappearance of deep bass in the subsequent releases of these albums in the CD era. What the Terminator does is make some of these digital recordings fun again.

     

    supertramp.jpgOn Supertramp's Another Man's Woman from Crisis? What Crisis? (16/44.1), I've never heard this track sound as punchy and deep as this. While deep bass is emphatic, the Terminator does not forgive harshness in the upper registers. There is a slight sizzle on the top end here, but it's in the mastering. The Terminator does not mete out mercy for this. Such is not the nature of a beast.

     

     

     

     

    rem.jpgI've always had mixed feelings about REM's Shiny Happy People from their iconic Out of Time album (24/88.2 on Qobuz). It's a great song, but tends to have a bit too much treble energy for my ears. On the Terminator, the treble harshness was still evident, but tempered somewhat by the deeper bass.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Oversampling and Filtering

     

    According to Mr. Zhao, designer of the Terminator, "In OS mode, it is oversampling to PCM384 / DSD256 respectively. The filter is undisclosed." It didn't take me long to discern the Terminator sounded much better in OS mode (i.e. NOS OFF). The difference was not subtle. The soundstage was more expansive, and the sound was just more refined across the board. OS stayed on for the rest of the evaluation.

     

    Exploring this further, I experimented with upsampling using Roon's DSP. Upsampling PCM content to 352.8/384 using the "precise, minimum phase" filter, I heard a pretty nice bump in sound quality, over and above the Terminator's built-in OS. In the past, I seem to have gravitated to DACs that did not particularly benefit from SW upsampling, so this experience was a new one for me. I kept this setting for the remainder of my evaluation, and the comparisons. Note: I did not upsample DSD input streams.

     

    I know people will ask - why not HQPlayer? As I've explained previously, my upstream chain has been optimized around a low-powered music server, the Innuos Zenith SE, which does not have the horsepower to run HQPlayer, and is not (yet) supporting HQPlayer's NAA endpoint.

     

    Given my experience, I would strongly encourage people considering this DAC evaluate it with upstream software upsampling and filters.

     

     

    Comparison with the Ayre Codex

     

    First up, I compared the Terminator to my current DAC, the Ayre Codex. This comparison did not take too long, as this wasn't a fair fight. The Codex was comprehensively bested by the Terminator.

     

    bvsc.jpgIn Veinte Años from Buena Vista Social Club (24/96, ripped from DVD-Audio), while the Codex still rendered this song musically engagingly, it sounded almost skeletal in comparison to the Terminator. This song, like every song in this album, is imbued with an incredible amount of detail and texture, and this is rendered so much better on the Terminator. The laúd has a vibrancy and richness that comes across as more realistic. I keep coming back to the word "tapestry," since that is what the Terminator creates with music that has complexity and texture. And those glorious bass lines are so much more visceral.

     

    Still, speaking in the Codex's defense, this difference was only apparent when listening to the DACs head to head. I still feel the Codex is a triumph of tradeoffs, and for its cost and form factor, delivers a heck of value.

     

     

    Comparison with the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and Uptone JS-2 PSU

     

    Stepping up the value chain, I pitted the Terminator against my ~$3k reference: the combo of Brooklyn DAC+/JS-2.

     

    mahler.jpgWhen I first evaluated the Brooklyn+/JS-2, I loved the dynamics of this combo on the thumping drum strokes at the beginning of the last movement of Mahler Symphony No. 10, Thomas Dausgaard, Seattle Symphony ( 24/96). Well, the Terminator surpassed that. On the Brooklyn+ combo, these strokes sounded almost hollow and boomy compared to the weighty, meaty thwacks on the Terminator. It's funny how the tables turn in these comparative descriptions. The Terminator's superior bass was evident here too, in clearer double bass lines. In other areas, the 2 DACs were neck and neck. Soundstaging was similar, and while the Terminator still had a slightly darker tone, the Brooklyn+ sounded just as refined and resolving.

     

    All in all, this was a battle well fought by two worthy opponents. The Terminator won the day, but this was by no means a beat down or walk-over. The Terminator costs a little over $1k more, and you get a lot for that extra outlay. This was a fair result when comparing two overachievers in their respective price points.

     

     

    Comparison with Ayre QX-8

     

    Ah - this is when things got really interesting. How would the Terminator do relative to the current leader of the pack in my DAC series? They are similar in price - $4299 (Terminator) vs. $4950 (QX-8 USB). Could the Terminator displace the QX-8 from it's pole position in my quest?

     

    otmar.jpgOn Cocteau, from Ottmar Liebert's excellent binaural album Up Close (24/96), it was fascinating to hear the strengths of each DAC reflected in the listening experience. The Terminator's excellent bass and dynamics imparted a vibrancy and energy that was really exciting. The QX-8's excellent imaging and sound staging were evident, aided by the excellent binaural recording. The sense of ambiance and space was greater. Overall, on this track, the Terminator was the one I preferred.

     

     

     

     

    journey.jpgFusion albums are always hit or miss for me, but I was intrigued by this recent BIS release, Journey (24/96). A collaboration between a Carnatic (a South Indian classical genre) violin and a tuba? This could be genius or a colossal disaster. But RvB of BIS wouldn't release a disaster, so I checked it out. It's fabulous! In the 2nd movement of the Concerto for Indian violin, tuba, and orchestra, there is a section from about 5:00 to 6:00, where Subramaniam plays his violin with the raspy, almost ragged tone of the Carnatic tradition. The QX-8 rendered this with more richness and detail than the Terminator. On the other hand, at about 9:00, there is a melody where the tuba and violin play together. The Terminator's rendition of the tuba is weighty and powerful, while the QX-8's is more soaring, and the latter captures the violin's timbre better. For different reasons then, both DACs deliver this melody in a beautify way. The QX-8 pulls ahead in portraying the orchestra in a bigger soundstage, and individual instruments are better resolved.

     

     

     

     

    I found this contrast between the strengths of these 2 DACs on track after track. The Terminator's deeper bass and greater dynamics - although not by much - were consistently evident. The QX-8 excelled in its more expansive, airy, and open soundstage. While it did sound a little leaner than the Terminator, I found it to have a smoother, more refined tonality. Finally, extremely fine micro-details were better resolved on the QX-8.

     

    So is there a winner? I'll talk about this more in the Summary. Each DAC has its strengths! I will say that my preference for one over the other seemed to correlate with the genres of music being listened to. For pop/rock music, I tended to prefer the Terminator, but for most acoustic genres, especially classical and jazz, I leaned towards the QX-8.

     

    Choices, choices.

     

     

    Comparison with the Ayre QX-5 Twenty

     

    I still had this puppy on loan, so had to do this comparison. Well, there's a reason the QX-5 Twenty costs north of $9k. In many ways, the QX-5 was the amalgam of the strengths of the Terminator and the QX-8! It was even more refined and resolving than the QX-8, but with dynamics and low end oomph to match the Terminator.

     

    Pay, and ye shall receive!

     

     

    Comparison with the Schiit Yggdrasil

     

    Just as with my other DAC evaluations, the Terminator took a trip across town to my friend Eric's speaker-based setup, to compare with his Yggdrasil. His setup comprises an Innuos Zenith SE server, driving a chain of SOtM tX-USBultra and dX-USB HD Ultra to the DAC via AES/EBU. Both the SOtM boxes are powered by independent rails of a Paul Hynes SR-7 PSU. He too uses a Mutec Ref-10 reference clock on the SOtM boxes. In our comparison, we drove both DACs via AES, which is another difference from my home setup, which is all USB.

     

    The analog chain comprises an Audio Research Reference 6 preamp, Hegel H30 power amp, and Magnepan 3.7i speakers, with dual Rhytmik F12g subwoofers. His Yggy unit did not have the new Gen 5 USB stage, nor the new Analog 2 upgrade, but right after our session, it got sent off to Schiit for the upgrades. Hopefully in a few weeks, I'll be able to revisit this comparison with the upgraded Yggdrasil.

     

    One final note: since we were using AES as the input, which tops out at 192kHz input rates, we didn't use any SW upsampling to either DAC.

     

    We level matched both DACs using an SPL meter as usual, and settled into our listening. Just like it did in my system, the Terminator made a positive impression from the get-go on Eric's system. "Hot-damn, this is sounding good" w as the consensus!

     

    soldier-of-love.jpegOn Morning Bird, from Sade's Soldier of Love (16/44.1), it was immediately clear that great as the Yggy was, the Terminator was something special. The piano in particular was much more realistic, more physical. The lower octaves of the piano were more muscular, and the sound of the hammer hitting the piano string was more palpable. Sade's voice seemed to emerge from a blacker background, with not the hint of sibilance we were hearing on the Yggy. Finally, the Yggy sounded thinner and more constricted. I never thought I would ever write the previous sentence, but comparisons can be cruel.

     

     

     

     

    sudbin.jpgMoving on to the 3rd movement "Rondo. Allegro" of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 5 "Emperor," performed by Yevgeny Sudbin with Osmo Vänskä and the Minnesota Orchestra (24/44.1), the Terminator set down a more dense, solid, coherent, and majestic soundstage than the Yggy. There was a sense of power and control to the music. Once again, the piano was rendered much more dimensionally, and every instrument was locked in its position in the soundstage, with no breakup even on the crescendos. I've heard this piece through the Yggy several times before, and always found it completely satisfying, with no cause for complaint. To hear it bettered to this degree was quite revelatory.

     

     

     

     

    Summary

     

    The Denafrips Terminator DAC rocks! I mean that somewhat literally, in that it is outstanding on rock music. Its dynamics, deep bass, and sheer solidity are scary good, and amazing at its price point. Anyone who is considering a DAC in this price range should give it an audition.

     

    In terms of my own preferences and tastes, it's a real toss up between the Terminator and the QX-8. I love the Terminator when listening to more casual pop/rock genres. And the Terminator is a fun DAC to listen to! But the other side of me that loves classical music just finds itself gravitating to the Ayre QX-8. This is a very personal preference, in that I put greater value in the extra air, image size, and refinement from the QX-8, while accepting its limitations in the areas of solidity, deep bass, and density. Someone else will probably make a different tradeoff.

     

    For me, it came down to what music I listen to the most. The reality is that I listen to a lot more classical music than other genres. So yes, for my tastes and ears, the QX-8 wins out. Although - just by a nose.

     

    In many ways, having the QX-5 Twenty around allowed me to see the yin and yang nature of the Terminator and the QX-8. The Terminator with its visceral dynamics and bass, vs. the QX-8 with its more refined, detailed, and elegant sound. I want both!! I know - some of you will say - you'll eventually just want to get the QX-5 Twenty and be done with it. It's looking like that, isn't it?

     

    We shall see. I still have some more DACs in the pipeline. Stay tuned!

     

     

     

    Product Information:

     

    • Product - Denafrips Terminator ($4,299)
    • Product Page - Link
    • Quick Start Guide - PDF (313KB)

     

     

     

     

     

    Associated Equipment

     

    Here is a diagram of how the Terminator integrated into my system:

     

    austinpop-Audio-topology.png

     

     

     

     

    Music Server:                 Innuos Zenith Mk II SE

    Headphone Amplifier:   Cavalli Liquid Gold

    Headphones:                  Sennheiser HD800 (Super DuPont Mod), Audioquest Nighhawk

    USB Regenerator:           SOtM tX-USBultra

    Ethernet Switch:             The Linear Solution OCXO switch 

    Reference Clock:            Mutec Ref 10 10MHz clock driving the tX-USBultra

    Power supplies:              Utpone LPS-1.2 for switch, Paul Hynes SR-4 for tX-USBultra

    Power Details:                 Dedicated 30A 6AWG AC circuit, PS Audio P5 PerfectWave Regenerator

    Power Cables:                 PS Audio AC-12 (wall to P5), Pangea AC-9SE MkII (Cavalli Amp), Cardas Golden Cross (Zenith SE),  Pangea AC-14XL 

                                               (Mutec Ref-10), Pangea AC-14SE MkII to all PSUs, Cardas Clear to all DACs under test

    USB cables:                      Phasure Lush USB

    AES/EBU cables:             Cardas Clear

    Clock cables:                    Habst 5N Cryo Pure Silver

    Ethernet cables:               SOtM dCBL-Cat7 (switch to SE), TLS cable (switch to QX-8)

    DC cables:                         Audio Sensibility Signature Silver (LPS-1.2), Paul Hynes DC3FSXLR fine silver (SR-4)

    Interconnects:                  Cardas Clear XLR balanced (DAC to Amp)

    Headphone cables:         Cardas Clear balanced and SE cables for HD800

     

     

     

    Acknowledgments

     

    Many thanks to Cardas Audio for providing a full loom of Cardas Clear cables to allow identical cables to be used for all the DACs under test!

     

     

     

     




    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    1 hour ago, Geoff13 said:

    Hello,

     

    Thank you for a lovely and interesting review. So i also have a question. With the Terminator you don't have sibilance on the Sade recording. So would you say the Terminator smooths things out or how would you describe this.

     

    I listen to a lot of vocal music and sibilance is pretty low in my set-up but if the Terminator gets rid of most sibilance than that's pretty amazing. I hear some sibilance on the Sade album with my NOS DAC. Would love it if that sibilance dissappeared.

     

    Best regards

    Geoff from Belgium

     

    Hi Geoff,

     

    In general, there are many malign forces that plague our audio systems. One of the guiding principles, lodestars if you will, we follow is to eliminate sibilance. In my experience, this is a system-wide effort, and tends to improve as you make improvements across the chain.

     

    Ok, but that’s all motherhood and apple pie.

     

    In my article, I used the word in a relative sense. In my friend’s system with the Yggy,  listening as is, I doubt anyone would consider the sound to be sibilant. It’s only in the comparative context, relative to the Terminator, that I felt the Terminator reduced sibilance slightly.

     

    This is always the limitation of comparative language. You have to use a positive or negative phrase for the better (or worse) component, even though in isolation, there is nothing negative about it!

     

    i wouldn’t go so far as to say the Terminator by itself can cure sibilance in a system. It could help, depending on what DAC it’s replacing.

     

    I just want to reinforce that sibilance elimination is a systemwide effort.

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    So, I guess the next question is sibilance vis-a-vis digital glare...

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    Thanks for this great installment in "The Quest". I look forward to the final conclusion in episode (?). When you are done fooling around with computers, I would consider becoming a full time writer if I had your abilities.

     

    I also would like to upgrade my DAC. I have a Mark Levinson 390s that has served me well for 13 years but it only does 44.1 or 48 via its SPDIF input. With true hi-res streaming coming online (Qobuz), I will need to upgrade soon. I may look into one of the new Ethernet direct options like the Merging or the MSB. I would really like to avoid the whole USB spaghetti and meatballs mess of boxes this time around. Hopefully there will be some lower priced options in that category going forward.

     

    Looking forward to the next.

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    18 hours ago, KDinsmore said:

    When are you going to try an MSB? ?

     

    Which one? Do they have one in this price range? I thought all their DACs were in the 5-digit USD price range!

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    1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

    So, I guess the next question is sibilance vis-a-vis digital glare...

     

    I can only talk about what these terms mean to me, and in that context, these are two different things.

     

    Sibilance is a tendency where an audio system causes the "s" consonant in human voice (speech and/or song) to sound exaggerated, elongated, hissy, etc.

     

    Digital glare is a more holistic impression of a system. Sometimes it's obvious harshness in the treble, or bright sounding, but sometimes it's just a subtle characteristic of the sound that is fatiguing after a while.

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    Yes, agreed.  I am wondering if there is overlap between the two - either in terms of the system and its design, or in terms of psycho-acoustics...

     

     

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    Interesting discussion about sibilance guys...

     

    Sure, it's likely a combination of factors and presumably the DAC is a factor here. But how much is contributed by the DAC and what is simply inherent in the musical recording? Maybe that's the way the Sade recording is supposed to sound (ie. "flawed" by design) and any DAC that smooths it out is doing the same thing for everything else! That would not necessarily be a good thing.

     

    Here's a thought, can folks suggest maybe a handful of high quality recordings they think tend to cause sibilance on a poor DAC and presumably should not sound that way? Perhaps we can then look deeper into this concern and determine what a DAC could or should do to reproduce a "proper" sound.

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    56 minutes ago, Archimago said:

    Interesting discussion about sibilance guys...

     

    Sure, it's likely a combination of factors and presumably the DAC is a factor here. But how much is contributed by the DAC and what is simply inherent in the musical recording? Maybe that's the way the Sade recording is supposed to sound (ie. "flawed" by design) and any DAC that smooths it out is doing the same thing for everything else! That would not necessarily be a good thing.

     

    Here's a thought, can folks suggest maybe a handful of high quality recordings they think tend to cause sibilance on a poor DAC and presumably should not sound that way? Perhaps we can then look deeper into this concern and determine what a DAC could or should do to reproduce a "proper" sound.

     

    Hi Archimago,

     

    Thanks for raising this fascinating point. Yes, I agree this is a chicken and egg question. What's in the recording - inherently - vs. what is distortion? I have no expertise to make absolute statements here! Some observations, though:

    1. It would certainly be fun to crowdsource here on CA a list of songs that both 
      • exhibit sibilance to some degree, and
      • for which sibilance has been found to improve with system improvements
    2. Then for this list, we need some impeccable source who can represent the actual recording/artist, and make a clarification of "intent." Was that "distortion" intentional, or an artifact of the recording?
    3. The above sounds pretty daunting, but perhaps possible.

    Of course, let's also step back and reiterate that

    1. sibilance is only one in many forms of distortion, and
    2. improvements in sibilance (or more generally, distortion) are not just DAC-specific, but system-wide.

    If this is a subject of interest (and it certainly is for me), it probably deserved a thread of its own.

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    I agree it is an interesting question (specifically as to sibilance, and more generally as to euphonic distortion - as an Audio Research tubey goodness pre-amp owner) and vote new thread

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    On 9/13/2018 at 2:02 PM, austinpop said:

    Sibilance is a tendency where an audio system causes the "s" consonant in human voice (speech and/or song) to sound exaggerated, elongated, hissy, etc.

     

     

     

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    On 9/14/2018 at 12:32 PM, austinpop said:

     

    Hi Archimago,

     

    Thanks for raising this fascinating point. Yes, I agree this is a chicken and egg question. What's in the recording - inherently - vs. what is distortion? I have no expertise to make absolute statements here! Some observations, though:

    1. It would certainly be fun to crowdsource here on CA a list of songs that both 
      • exhibit sibilance to some degree, and
      • for which sibilance has been found to improve with system improvements
    2. Then for this list, we need some impeccable source who can represent the actual recording/artist, and make a clarification of "intent." Was that "distortion" intentional, or an artifact of the recording?
    3. The above sounds pretty daunting, but perhaps possible.

    Of course, let's also step back and reiterate that

    1. sibilance is only one in many forms of distortion, and
    2. improvements in sibilance (or more generally, distortion) are not just DAC-specific, but system-wide.

    If this is a subject of interest (and it certainly is for me), it probably deserved a thread of its own.

    I nominate  recordings by "the Cranberries" as a test of whether a DAC can be excited into painful sibilance. Not the exaggerated" s" sound of a snake but rather the  inclusion of the affect of fingernail scraped across a chalkboard when traditional sibilance occurs.

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    which Cranberries CDs or tracks would you pick?

     

    I am always looking to add to my test music list...

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    Another good track for sibilance is Diamonds on the Soles of her Shoes from Paul Simon's Graceland.

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    As an owner of a Terminator for some time already, and I purchased when you initiated this quest with the 1st part, I tried different upsampling methods, DAC's OS, Roon DSP and HQPe with NAA and in my opinion and without trying to detriment Roon's or the DAC upsampling, HQP by far sounds the best. I know you already mentioned in your article the reasons for which  you weren't using HQP but since I tried all that I wanted to provide feedback.

    Thank you for the article, very throughout and gives me the chance to try new things with the DAC.

     

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    40 minutes ago, luisma said:

    As an owner of a Terminator for some time already, and I purchased when you initiated this quest with the 1st part, I tried different upsampling methods, DAC's OS, Roon DSP and HQPe with NAA and in my opinion and without trying to detriment Roon's or the DAC upsampling, HQP by far sounds the best. I know you already mentioned in your article the reasons for which  you weren't using HQP but since I tried all that I wanted to provide feedback.

    Thank you for the article, very throughout and gives me the chance to try new things with the DAC.

     

     

    Thanks, that's great feedback. I know I can't test every use case, so it's good to hear from other CA'ers about aspects like this, that I couldn't test.

     

    Can you be specific on what your upsampling strategy is with HQPlayer? Do you upsample everything to DXD, everything to DSD256, or do you do PCM-PCM, and DSD-DSD? What filters have you found to sound best?

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    Sure, without trying to hijack your column or review here it is.

     

    This is what I have tried that it sounds good to me, please note that after some tones listening I came to the conclusion that after 16khz I can't hear anything, did some testing this week and maybe 16.5 or 17 khz tops but nothing more.

     

    I have an Intel i7 NUC running Ubuntu (Jussi's kernel) with my own install of HQPE and Roon Server. Internet access is via wireless for streaming and wired unshielded ethernet connected directly to a fanless NAA core i3 running ubuntu minimal install by me as well running HQP NAA (networkaudiod) and Roon Bridge (not in active use). Both NUC and fanless PC are being fed by Uptone JS2 using the DC cables supplied by Alex C with the unit. From the NAA I use a custom made by Ghent Audio USB JSSG cable to connect the Denafrips Terminator which is powered by Audio Sensibility cable. The Terminator connects unbalanced XLR Wireworld Eclipse 7 to a Yamaha AS2100 SS AB integrated amp. Yamaha is connected via speaker cable  Anticables Level 3.1 to a pair of Klipsch P37F (Paladiums) and RCA interconnect to a Powersound Audio S3600 sealed sub.

     

    My apologies but I'm still trying to accommodate the audiophile verbiage into my brain to describe things in an understandable way so I will use my own words here (Lehman's terminology) 

     

    Trying Roon DSP Engine with Headroom Management -3 and Sample Rate PCM 384 and DSD 256 found the sound "hollow" / "not as full and coherent" as HQP. So at this point I'm discarding Roon's upsampling and proceeding to comment on HQP.

     

    Trying HQPE, I read a lot about people preferring PCM over DSD, in my case is the opposite, for some reason it sounds better in my opinion listening to DSD, I tried DSD128 and DSD256 and I prefer the latter (as long as the filter runs on the core i7 with enough resources). When I was running PCM I found "closed form" with TPDF dithering to be my favorite filter.

    With DSD I tried following some post "poli-sinc-mqa-mp" oversampling with DSD5 modulator and it sounds very good.

     

    So at this point I do DSD mainly (my setting attached below)

     

    Some last considerations:

     

    1. The CPU taxing of PCM is less than DSD and will allow you to run other filters that might not be possible under DSD

     

    2. I run into some issues reproducing music from Roon or HQP upsampling, after some tracks being played switching music or filters I got glitchy noises, slowdown of audio, high pitched  noise etc. Once I updated the Amanero firmware to CPLD_for_1080 and firmware 1099c (see below)  and added some packages to the linux install "sudo apt-get install libflac8 libasound2 libasound2-data libasound2-plugins" all the issues were gone and I can switch back and forth between filters with no issues. I am not sure if it was the firmware or the packages all I know it was very annoying and now it is gone for good. This issue was also present with Audirvana and J River so the firmware could be the main reason is gone.

     

    3. Music for testing PCM and DSD

    Supertramp - School

    Caroline Campbell - Czardas, Skyfall

    Caroline Campbell / William Joseph - Jar of Hearts and Piano Fantasy

    Fat Larry's Band - Act like you Know

    A-ha - Hunting High and Low (MTV unpluggeD)

    Archie Shepp Quartet - true Ballads (The Thrill is Gone particularly is one of my favorites)

    Of course Benny Goodman - Sing Sing Sing

     

    4. I was using an Allo Bridge before but I am so happy I got it replaced by this Intel NAA, the CPU usage is 1% or less.

     

    5. You may benefit with the use of a dedicated streamer and the I2S connections on the DAC (which may provide better clocking if I'm not mistaken than the USB connection)

     

    6. Very important and I mentioned this on another thread, be sure Alvin lists the DAC on the papers as music equipment or something (he is actually already doing this) as customs may delay your order because the word "Terminator" doesn't click too well with customs on import documents :) 

     

    I'm sorry if I overextended on my comments and description, this is about the Terminator and it is a great product.

     

    This is just my opinion, I am not related in any commercial way (except that I'm a customer) with Denafrips, Vinshine Audio, HQPlayer, Roon or The Computer Audiophile. Many of you may have a different opinion or likes in music and sound and apologies if something I have stated is incorrect.

     

    image.thumb.png.72bed0243de69b7d44c9c59c335168d1.png

    image.thumb.png.be713bbff71ab4571aacc823f274d264.png

     

     

     

     

     

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    Roon Headroom setting: I have mine set at -0.5db, and that's enough to prevent 99% of clipping when up/resampling.  I think it sounds better than -3db.

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    6 hours ago, firedog said:

    Roon Headroom setting: I have mine set at -0.5db, and that's enough to prevent 99% of clipping when up/resampling.  I think it sounds better than -3db.

    Good tip, without headroom there is always clipping in my system, I will try -0.5 thank you 

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    Regarding the name - did they realize using those letters they could call it "PAN-FRIEDS"?

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    5 minutes ago, coot said:

    Regarding the name - did they realize using those letters they could call it "PAN-FRIEDS"?

    More options:

    • Fan's Pride
    • Rap Fiends
    • Fad Sniper
    • Fair Spend

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    On 9/15/2018 at 4:15 PM, Ralf11 said:

    which Cranberries CDs or tracks would you pick?

     

    I am always looking to add to my test music list...

    actually I think I just figured it out, looking at @firedog"s post (Thank you! )

     

     Icon CD compilation, track 3 "I can't be with you", track 1 "Dreams" 

    Roses CD track 1 "Conduct"

     

    these tracks normal or upsampled made my head hurt... but using headroom adjustment in Roon to reduce peak by -3 db reduced the migraine

     

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    3 hours ago, mansr said:

    More options:

    • Fan's Pride
    • Rap Fiends
    • Fad Sniper
    • Fair Spend

    Fena Drips (a new  coffee or tea  offering ,  based on fennel, avail at Whole Foods )

     

    ... or .. .

    D ude,

    E mergency

    N eed

    A ssistance ...

    F uckin' audio

    R eviewer

    I s

    P issin' me off 

    S omethin' fierce

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    On 9/12/2018 at 12:42 PM, rickca said:

    Excellent work, thank you!  Questions ...

     

    Aren't you supposed to use NOS mode when using software upsampling?  Otherwise, aren't you hearing some interaction between the software DSP and the Denafrips OS mode?  Does ROON upsampling to 352.8/384 PCM bypass the Terminator OS mode filter?

    It's really too bad you couldn't try PCM to DSD upsampling.  Does the Terminator OS mode do PCM to DSD conversion, or does it only upsample DSD input to DSD256?

     

    It doesn't look like you didn't evaluate the Terminator with DSD input, is that right?  Isn't that supposed to be one of its strengths?

     

    OK now I have to listen to the Apple announcements.

    Was reading a 2013 post "Should I NOS-DAC ? where PeterST describes his DAC experiment for the ideal NOS DAC. He asserts that the misconception around NOS is not the NOS itself but the absence of the digital filter which is the source of ringing that plagues digital sound. From his experiments, to build the ideal "NOS" DAC, you would upsample the file before the DAC which takes all the aliasing distortion and raises it out of the audioband. From his  DAC test, you go from 30% harmonic distortion to .018% removing aliasing out of the audioband and you eliminate the filter ringing that is commensurate with the NOS design. 

     

    I have an Antipodes server running Roon which will upsample a 44.1Khz sampled file to 8X [352.8Khz] or 16X OS [705.6Khz] . I'd love to see what that sounds like played back by a NOS filterless DAC to test PeterSTs assertion.  If I am following  his math correctly he asserts that the aliasing frequencies are determined by [for 352.8Khz OS input ]

     

     

    1/2 sampling rate 352.8K =  176.4Khz + (176.4Khz - 20Khz) = 332.8Khz  

                                                       176.4Khz + (176.4Khz - 20hz) =   352.78Khz   

    Audioband aliasing has been raised to between 332.8Khz and 352.78Khz

     

    Now to filter these with a Jensen transformer if that will sufficiently reduce these levels before the amp. With a  -3dB  at 80Khz, -6dB at 160Khz, you would have -12dB at 320Khz using one transformer after the DAC .

    Or perhaps one transformer between DAC and preamp and a second at the input to the amp for at least -24dB. The phase is virtually flat according to the Jensen Spec. I would like to know if the Holo Spring can accept OS inputs in NOS Mode  and what that would sound like as well. 

     

    Rich M

     

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    If the DAC Quest is possibly enroute to a Chord TT2/MScaler which addresses faster transients, it would seem cogent to test what occurs in a NOS setup where Aliasing is removed [OS  input to the DAC]  and ringing is eliminated with the filter removed.

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