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    At Long Last! Listen To Your (Physical) SACDs Through an Outboard DAC

     

    At Long Last! Listen To Your SACDs Through an Outboard DAC
    George Graves

     

     

    When Sony/Phillips Announced their new Super Audio CD format (SACD) in 1999/2000, Sony opened a marketing office in NYC to advertise and promote the new format. They reached out to a number of  audio writers (including, yours truly) with the “gift” of a new Sony SCD-777ES player (listing for $3500) and a “subscription” to all SACD releases as they came out – regardless of label! As a result of that, and the many SACDs that I received from companies such as Telarc and Reference Recordings, etc, after Sony shut that office down (not to mention the ones that I bought myself), I have hundreds of SACDs!

     

    For years, I used my SCD-777ES player to play them and enjoyed what I thought was great SACD playback. After all, the Sony turned out to be, at the time, the best regular CD player that I had heard. Why wouldn’t the SACD portion of the player be just as exemplary? Then, about five years ago, the 777 stopped being able to play SACDs. It still played regular CDs but it wouldn’t even “recognize” the SACD layer in the dual layer discs and the early Sony SACDs, which were single layer (and culled mostly from the Columbia Records catalogue) wouldn’t play at all. I was devastated. I had recently bought a really cheap Sony BDP-BX37 Blu-Ray player on E-Bay and when I subsequently discovered that it would also play SACDs, I was ecstatic! Sadly the euphoria didn’t last long as this Blu-Ray player’s SACD playback was terrible and certainly not satisfying to anyone who was used to the SCD-777ES.

     

    In the meantime I had taken the 777 ES to the Sony warranty repair shop in my area, and was told that the problem was that the laser LED for the SACD portion of the player had failed and there were no more spares (an old story with Sony) as they made only a certain number of spare laser assemblies and this turned out to be a weak spot in the player’s design. In other words, almost all of the 777s either had failed or will fail in this manner! So the player could not be fixed (anyone interested in buying that brick from me?).

     

    The Blu-Ray player sounded so mediocre playing SACDs, that I essentially stopped listening to them. My SACD copies of Miles Davis’ “Kinda Blue” and “Sketches of Spain,” Dave Brubeck’s “Time Out,” Bernstein’s “Rhapsody in Blue,” Copland’s “Appalachian Spring” and all the other Columbia SACDs that I own couldn’t even be ripped to iTunes or JRiver’s Media Player because these were single-layer discs with no Red Book CD layer.

     

    When I obtained an Oppo UDP-205 media player, I was heartened because the player used a state-of-the-art DAC section built around the top-of-the-line ESS “SaberDAC” ES9038PRO DAC chip and it supported SACD. Again, I was disappointed. The SaberDACs are of the Delta-Sigma variety and are (in my humble opinion) far inferior to many of the modern R2R (ladder DAC) designs for PCM, but due to their single-bit architecture should be perfect for SACD. So, I don’t understand why the SaberDAC Pro sounds so mediocre in this regard.  Both the Schiit Yggdrasil and the super-cheap Schiit Modi Multi-bit DACs performed rings around the ES9038PRO chips in the Oppo on PCM, but alas, none of the Schiit DACs support SACD. The Oppo, while it does support SACD, it really doesn’t sound all that much better than my cheap Sony Blu-Ray player. 

     

     

    Out of the Box Thinking


    I was contemplating writing-off my entire SACD collection because, let’s face it, who wants to listen to SACDs that sound, essentially no better (albeit somewhat different) than their Red Book versions? I was pretty much at a loss. When I received the Denafrips Pontus DAC, I was interested to note that all of the company’s DACs support the I2S digital interconnect protocol via HDMI. I also noted that the Oppo had two HDMI outputs. ‘VIDEO’ was, of course, for connection to one’s TV for playing Blu-Ray discs and DVDs. But I found the second one was labeled ‘AUDIO’ and that intrigued me. I also knew that even though no SACD player (to my knowledge) ever broke-out the DSD signal (the actual SACD digital format) from any player, that DSD signal was available as part of the HDMI digital video protocol.

     

    That got me thinking. I wondered if I could just connect an HDMI cable from the AUDIO  output of the Oppo directly to the HDMI input of the Pontus DAC. Even though I really didn’t expect it to work, I figured that it was worth a try. It couldn’t harm anything, and who knew? I might “get lucky”. Well I wasn’t disappointed when it didn’t work, after all that’s what I suspected would be the outcome.


    But, I was still intrigued with the possibility. The fact remained that the DSD signal from an SACD was available on the HDMI interface. But further reading of the Pontus manual told me that the HDMI input was dedicated solely to I2S digital signals. Was there any way to convert the HDMI from a Blu-Ray player to I2S? I went on E-Bay and searched for “HDMI to I2S”. My ad hoc search yielded a series of circuit boards and complete units that took an HDMI output from video sources and output I2S over HDMI as well as coaxial and optical SPDIF! All of the units and boards seemed to be the same thing from different vendors. The bare circuit boards were around US$45, and the complete, packaged units (same circuit) seemed to be US$55-$60. I ordered one of the complete units from China (naturally) and waited for it to arrive.

     

    Here’s the URL for the E-Bay page containing all of the converters from different vendors: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1312&_nkw=i2s&_sacat=0

     

     

    Connecting the Oppo Through the I2S Converter Box to the Denafrips DAC

     

    The I2S converter arrived from China during Christmas week. I couldn’t have asked for a nicer Christmas gift to myself. My friend Ted and I busied ourselves hooking it up.

     

    Let’s take a look at the converter unit. The box is about four-inches by four-inches by about two inches. Normally, this unit does not require an external DC power supply as most players will provide the needed 5 Volt DC via the HDMI cable. But, in case it does require external power. It's connected by the kind of barrel connector that often comes with wall-wart type supplies. The converter, however, comes with no power supply, wall-wart or otherwise, and the buyer must supply his own if his player does not supply the needed voltage or if the current from one’s HDMI source is insufficient. I felt that a better supply, than that available from my Oppo player, might be worth it, so I employed an ifi brand ‘iUSB’ box that I wasn’t using and a cable that had a USB Type A connector on one end and a suitable barrel connector on the other (BTW, about the unit’s power supply polarity; the unit comes with no documentation, and I had to test the polarity myself with a multimeter. So, to save any readers who want to try this project, the trouble of checking this themselves, the barrel is negative and the “tip” is positive.).

     

     

    image1.jpg image2.jpg

     


    The box has three HDMI female connectors, one is located on the audio output interface side of the unit. This is the output that goes to one’s DAC. The “output” side also sports a coax and a Toslink SPDIF connector and an I2S connector that I don’t recognize (and isn’t used in this application). The ‘HDMI side’ of the unit has the HDMI input from one’s player, and an HDMI output to one’s TV. Also provided is a three-position slide switch that enables the user switch the HDMI output between one’s TV, an amplifier that takes HDMI in, or ostensibly both (it’s labeled DUO, so I suspect that’s what it means – No manual, remember?). Then of course there is the 5 volt external power supply jack and a red LED indicating that an outboard power supply is connected and is turned on. 

     

    With the Oppo UDP-205, one connects the “Audio” HDMI output of the player to the input of the I2S converter box (if your player doesn’t have an audio-only HDMI output, use the video HDMI output) and the output of the HDMI side of the converter box goes to the HDMI input on one’s DAC.  That’s pretty straightforward.  

     

    Unfortunately, unless one is lucky (and depending on the brand of I2S connected DAC), that’s not all one must do. Apparently, there is no standard for connecting I2S over HDMI. The manufacturers can use any pins not used by the HDMI standard in the connector for the I2S interface. In many cases the user would have to find which pins on the converter box have the I2S signal on them and then perhaps rewire the DAC’s HDMI (or other I2S connector) to match. It is possible that your DSD-capable DAC doesn’t have an HDMI connector for I2S. The converter box also outputs I2S over both coax and Toslink. Denafrips has thoughtfully provided their DACs with a method for using the front panel switch buttons to allow the user to try all the different possible combinations. When the correct one is found, the I2S light on the front panel illuminates. Rather than go through the procedure here, I invite interested readers to go to the YouTube video listed below:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    The video says that it's for the Venus II model, but it also applies to the Pontus, and both the Terminator and the Terminator+ models. The only Denafrips DAC that doesn’t support I2S is the entry level Ares II.


    As luck would have it, if you are using one of the Denafrips DACs that support I2S, The correct pinout to interface with the Chinese converter bought from E-Bay is the default Denafrips’ configuration!

     

     

    Operation

     

    Once the I2S light on the front panel is lit, you’re all set. Just insert an SACD into the player’s transport and hit play. The DSD light will come on and 44.1 KHz sampling light will illuminate, and the 1X light will also light-up. Ignore the sampling rate light, but the 1X light will indicate that a DSD 64 source is playing. DSD 64 is the default for SACD, and 1X is probably the only light that one will ever see. 2X would mean DSD128, and 3X would indicate DSD256. DSD512 is not supported, but that’s OK because there are no SACDs (to my knowledge) in either DSD 128 or DSD 512.

     

     

    Sound

     

    Be prepared for the best SACD playback that you have ever heard! I wish that my SCD-777ES was still functioning, to compare, but I do have the Oppo UDP-205 with the highly touted ESS ES9038PRO DAC chip and I have an inexpensive Sony Blu-Ray player that also plays SACD. Neither of them are even in the same galaxy with the Denafrips Pontus I2S configuration! The bass is deeper than the ESS DAC, the highs are cleaner and much less grainy. The soundstage is both wider and deeper and the image specificity (in recordings where such exists) is simply more holographic. Of course, all of this is contingent on what brand of I2S-capable DAC you end up using. In short, I noticed similar sonic characteristics with the Pontus that I experienced listening to 24/96, or 24/192 LPCM sources on the unit. 

     

    In conclusion, just for fun, I tried the setup with my cheap Sony BDP-BX37 Blu-Ray player (for which I paid less than $50). I turned on the DSD over HDMI option in the audio settings and connected it to the I2S converter box via the video HDMI out on the Sony. It worked perfectly as I suspected it would, but unexpectedly, the output from the Sony, though, supposedly merely a digital DSD data stream (after all, we are only using the players as transports), sounded much worse than the same SACDs with the Oppo as the transport!

     

    If you choose to go this route, I suspect that any Blu-Ray player that advertises that it will play SACD discs via HDMI will play them without hassle, but be aware that the end result will depend on the quality of the transport player every bit as much as it will depend on the quality of the I2S compatible DSD capable DAC. 


         

     




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    8 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

    I do not know what it means to be " not feature designated" nor does it matter.  If the device will not play SACDs, it cannot rip SACDs.  If it can play SACDs, it may be able to rip SACDs.   Does your question go beyond that?

    nope, got it.  thanks.

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    On 1/12/2021 at 11:40 AM, gmgraves said:

    That’s next. I have a friend’s Oppo 105 (from which SACDs can be ripped with the proper software). Just bought a new Windows laptop and am waiting for it’s delivery. When it arrives, I will install the needed software, and rip some SACDs for comparison.

    What do your CD's sound like compared to SACD? 

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    2 hours ago, Rexp said:

    What do your CD's sound like compared to SACD? 

    You just asked the $64,000 question!
     

    The answer is anything but simple. I have regular CDs that sound infinitely better than SACDs of the exact, same material, and I also have SACDs of older analog masters that make them sound like the best modern digital masters. It seems that how carefully a release is produced is just as important, or possibly even more important than the format. Same is true with LP vs CD!

    But, given the best source material, the Pontus makes the best SACDs show the original promise of the format, and show that CDs can sound much better than they rightly should!

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    As I understand it, the Bryston BDA-3 DAC has been able to play DSD from SACDs via its HDMI input since its introduction three years ago, typically using an Oppo with HDMI output to read the SACDs. A number of receiver/DACs with HDMI input can do so as well.

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    On 1/10/2021 at 11:02 AM, gmgraves said:

    The Oppo UDP-205 as a stand-alone SACD player is mediocre at best, but it does seem to be an exemplary transport for streaming DSD data to an outboard DAC. I’ve tried several Sony Blu-Ray players and an Oppo 105, and the UDP-205 sounds superior playing SACDs through the I2S converter to the Denafrips Pontus via HDMI with the Oppo 105 as a close second.

    Am interested in identifying new players that would serve well as an SACD digital transports for this type of setup.   Did you compare the Oppos with the cheap Sonys (I have several lined up for ripping and they are flimsy at best)?   Curious whether a new Sony ES would perform better.   I am not seeing too many new players with HDMI outputs and SACD capability other than the Sonys.

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    On 1/20/2021 at 2:56 PM, jxo said:

    Am interested in identifying new players that would serve well as an SACD digital transports for this type of setup.   Did you compare the Oppos with the cheap Sonys (I have several lined up for ripping and they are flimsy at best)?   Curious whether a new Sony ES would perform better.   I am not seeing too many new players with HDMI outputs and SACD capability other than the Sonys.

    We’ve discussed this. Yes, I compared the Oppo 105 and 205 against several cheap Sony Blu-ray players with SACD playback. The Sonys aren’tverygood.

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    I bought the HDMI box on E Bay.  I attached it to my Oppo 105 using the HDMI 2 output. I didn’t use an external P/S.  I also used the HDMI output on the box to display video on the TV.  I set the Audio out to DSD on the 105. I used the I2S output with a HDMI 2.1 cable to a Topping D90.  I had to E mail the E Bay seller to get the I2S pinout.  On the D90 you have to reverse the Data.  Playing SACD's the D90 shows 2.8224 and DSD on the display.  The sound is much improved to the stock Oppo105.

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    22 hours ago, Mogulman said:

    ...  I had to E mail the E Bay seller to get the I2S pinout. On the D90 you have to reverse the Data...."

    Mogulman:  can you elaborate on what was needed to get I2S from the breakout box to, and working with, your DAC90?

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    2 hours ago, jxo said:

    Mogulman:  can you elaborate on what was needed to get I2S from the breakout box to, and working with, your DAC90?

    Hello George,

    Thank you very much for your review of the Pontus II DAC and the discovery of the HDMI-I2S box. I bought the Pontus as well as the box, connected the box to my XA5400 Sony player in HDMI o/p mode and to the Pontus. Everything worked flawlessly ! I have multiple high-end DACs and transports and this is by far the highest level of sound quality I have in my system (even slightly more open than DSD files from a HAP-Z1ES server to the Pontus over USB..!).  Thank you again.. Hugo 

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    Hi @gmgraves I just received the message via the Contact Us form.

     

    To the attention of George Graves

     

    In reference to your Audiophilestyle Web article -- "At Long Last! Listen to Your Physical SACDs Through an Outboard DAC" -- I wondered about the available setup options of the OPPO-UDP-205.

     

    I took some screen shots of the options in question but could notdetermine a way to insert local images files (with no Web URLs) in this message.

     

    Here are the options I wanted to bring to your attention:

    • Setup Menu
      • Audio Output Setup
        • HDMI Audio Format
          • Auto
          • LPSM
          • Bitstream
          • Off
    • Setup Menu
      • Audio Output Setup
        • SACD Output
          • Auto
          • PCM
          • DSD

     

    My assumption from the above options screens that with the settingshown in bold (Bitstream+DSD) it should be possible to pass the SACD signal to an external DAC.

     

    I must confess to ignorance as to which digital outputs these options are mapped to: HDMI, SPDIF or Toslink. This would be crucial for your task so it would need additional research and/or experimentation to resolve.

     

    My apologies if you were already aware of these options and havefound they do not directly achieve what you need.

     

    JWH

     

     

    Note: Following is just for your general reference regarding SACD options

    • Setup Menu
      • Audio Output Setup
        • SACD Priority
          • Multi-Channel
          • Stereo
          • CD Mode

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    On 1/27/2021 at 5:22 AM, jxo said:

    Mogulman:  can you elaborate on what was needed to get I2S from the breakout box to, and working with, your DAC90?

     

    Any luck getting it working yourself?

    If so........what are your settings?

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    On 1/26/2021 at 5:50 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Hi @gmgraves I just received the message via the Contact Us form.

     

    To the attention of George Graves

     

    In reference to your Audiophilestyle Web article -- "At Long Last! Listen to Your Physical SACDs Through an Outboard DAC" -- I wondered about the available setup options of the OPPO-UDP-205.

     

    I took some screen shots of the options in question but could notdetermine a way to insert local images files (with no Web URLs) in this message.

     

    Here are the options I wanted to bring to your attention:

    • Setup Menu
      • Audio Output Setup
        • HDMI Audio Format
          • Auto
          • LPSM
          • Bitstream
          • Off
    • Setup Menu
      • Audio Output Setup
        • SACD Output
          • Auto
          • PCM
          • DSD

     

    My assumption from the above options screens that with the settingshown in bold (Bitstream+DSD) it should be possible to pass the SACD signal to an external DAC.

     

    I must confess to ignorance as to which digital outputs these options are mapped to: HDMI, SPDIF or Toslink. This would be crucial for your task so it would need additional research and/or experimentation to resolve.

     

    My apologies if you were already aware of these options and havefound they do not directly achieve what you need.

     

    JWH

     

     

    Note: Following is just for your general reference regarding SACD options

    • Setup Menu
      • Audio Output Setup
        • SACD Priority
          • Multi-Channel
          • Stereo
          • CD Mode

    Those settings on the Oppo UDP- 205 are irrelevant at least as far as the Denefrips Pontus are concerned as the HDMI input port is I2S only. The default for the audio output settings on the Oppo is “Automatic”, so, when playing an SACD, the player selects the proper options for the Audio-Out only HDMI port (or at least that’s how it seems. I’m really no expert on the Oppo beyond what info is available in the unit’s manual). 
    Some DACS might take the HDMI SACD output DIRECTLY. I know that the DACs in some A/V receivers will do this, but *I* know of no stand-alone DACs that do this (this doesn’t mean that there aren’t any). Also, the way I understand it, the convention is that the DSD output from any player that will support SACD is only available on HDMI; not USB, nor either coax or Toslink SPDIF.

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    2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

    Glad it worked for you. This setup seems pretty bullet-proof. I would like to try this with a lot of different Blu-ray/SACD players, but that’s fairly impractical. I tried it with three, two Sony’s; one that I had on-hand and a friend’s as well as my Oppo 205, and a buddy’s Oppo 105. Somewhat disturbingly, all the players sounded different streaming SACD to the Pontus through the I2S box, with the transport in the Oppo UDP-205 sounding far superior to the Oppo 105 or either of the two Sony units I tried. While all sounded better than the Oppo 205 operating in the stand-alone mode (playing SACDs through it’s on-board ESS SabreDAC pro), none of the other players could hold a candle to the UDP-205 as an SACD transport playing an SACD through the Denefrips Pontus via I2S. The other players, used as transports, all “smeared” the sound and obscured detail compared to the 205. Makes me wonder if there aren’t other Blu-ray players (which support SACD playback) out there which would sound even better than the Oppo UDP-205. But without a direct comparison, there is simply no way to know.

    Anyway, I’m pretty stoked about the level of playback quality I’m getting from my more than 300 SACD discs with the current set-up. My results are so master-tape-like, that I can’t imagine how that could be improved, but it really wouldn’t surprise me to find out that even my current level of quality playback could be bettered! That seems to always be the case, doesn’t it?

    George,

    I also have a very large collection of SACDs and over 3000 CDs. I tried the Sony's flagship Blu-ray player (UBP-X1100ES) - which again worked flawlessly- , but the sound was less detailed and open compared to the XA5400 (last flagship SACD player from Sony). The build of the CD mechanism is completely different with the XA5400 being solid and more elaborate that the UBP's. Hence, indeed the quality of the transport plays a huge role in the ultimate sound quality through this arrangement of HDMI-i2s into Denafrips Pontus. I can also imagine that stepping up to the Venus II or the Terminator Plus will enhance the quality even more...but we will be chasing the law of diminishing returns. 

    Interesting is that I have found many well produced current CDs will be far superior than middle-of-the-road SACDs (especially early ones, circa mid-2000s). And that different is possibly far more noticeable than the increments provided by better DACs. Once again, thanks for your contribution!

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    3 hours ago, hgaggioni said:

    George,

    I also have a very large collection of SACDs and over 3000 CDs. I tried the Sony's flagship Blu-ray player (UBP-X1100ES) - which again worked flawlessly- , but the sound was less detailed and open compared to the XA5400 (last flagship SACD player from Sony). The build of the CD mechanism is completely different with the XA5400 being solid and more elaborate that the UBP's. Hence, indeed the quality of the transport plays a huge role in the ultimate sound quality through this arrangement of HDMI-i2s into Denafrips Pontus. I can also imagine that stepping up to the Venus II or the Terminator Plus will enhance the quality even more...but we will be chasing the law of diminishing returns. 

    Interesting is that I have found many well produced current CDs will be far superior than middle-of-the-road SACDs (especially early ones, circa mid-2000s). And that different is possibly far more noticeable than the increments provided by better DACs. Once again, thanks for your contribution!

    Amen to that, brother. I have always maintained that the care taken in production is, with all else being equal, more important than format; high-rez or not. Case in point: I have two copies of Prokofiev’s “Lt. Kiji Suite” with  Fritz Reiner and the Chicago symphony, recorded in the mid-1950’s by RCA Victor. One is a Redbook “XRCD” from JVC, while the other is a BMG release of the same material on hybrid SACD (part of BMG’s “Living Stereo” SACD series that they released in the mid-2000s). The XRCD sounds so much better than either the Redbook layer or the SACD layer of the BMG release that it’s difficult to reconcile what one is hearing with the knowledge that they are exactly the same performance!

    Now, of course, the XRCD retailed for around $40, and the BMG series for around $8 per title, but the BMG was SACD fer crissake! SACD is supposed to be high-resolution and much better than Redbook CD!
    This is not the only example of a CD of a work that sounds better than either it’s SACD, DVD-A, Blu-Ray Audio or MQA stream of a particular work, but it is the one that always comes to my mind when the subject comes up. The same is true, sometimes when it comes to LP vs digital.

    I have the Classics Records remastering of Stravinsky’s “Firebird”. The LP was mastered at 45 RPM, single-sided on 200 gram vinyl by Wilma Cozert Fine (the original Mercury Records mastering engineer, and the wife of the late C. Robert Fine, Mercury “Living Presence” chief recording engineer and head of Mercury’s classical division). In fact it was the last thing Wilma Cozert Fine did before she, herself, passed away. I also have the same performance on both CD (also mastered by Ms Fine) and SACD (don’t know who mastered the SACD release). Both the CD and the SACD sound very mediocre, but the LP is one of the best sounding commercial recording releases that this audiophile has ever heard! Dynamic, with thunderous bass, and silken highs; incredible sound stage and image specificity, this LP makes the digital versions sound like acoustic 78s by comparison! (OK, you caught me, I’m exaggerating, but you get the picture!). 
    All of this proves to me that the production process and the care taken (or not taken) is more important, ultimately, than the release format. Sure, High-res digital, whether LPCM, or SACD (DSD) (have the potential to be) better than Redbook CD, or analog. But unless best practices are followed from microphone to final product, the actual format can be irrelevant.

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    28 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

    Amen to that, brother. I have always maintained that the care taken in production is, with all else being equal, more important than format; high-rez or not. Case in point: I have two copies of Prokofiev’s “Lt. Kiji Suite” with  Fritz Reiner and the Chicago symphony, recorded in the mid-1950’s by RCA Victor. One is a Redbook “XRCD” from JVC, while the other is a BMG release of the same material on hybrid SACD (part of BMG’s “Living Stereo” SACD series that they released in the mid-2000s). The XRCD sounds so much better than either the Redbook layer or the SACD layer of the BMG release that it’s difficult to reconcile what one is hearing with the knowledge that they are exactly the same performance!

    Now, of course, the XRCD retailed for around $40, and the BMG series for around $8 per title, but the BMG was SACD fer crissake! SACD is supposed to be high-resolution and much better than Redbook CD!
    This is not the only example of a CD of a work that sounds better than either it’s SACD, DVD-A, Blu-Ray Audio or MQA stream of a particular work, but it is the one that always comes to my mind when the subject comes up. The same is true, sometimes when it comes to LP vs digital.

    I have the Classics Records remastering of Stravinsky’s “Firebird”. The LP was mastered at 45 RPM, single-sided on 200 gram vinyl by Wilma Cozert Fine (the original Mercury Records mastering engineer, and the wife of the late C. Robert Fine, Mercury “Living Presence” chief recording engineer and head of Mercury’s classical division). In fact it was the last thing Wilma Cozert Fine did before she, herself, passed away. I also have the same performance on both CD (also mastered by Ms Fine) and SACD (don’t know who mastered the SACD release). Both the CD and the SACD sound very mediocre, but the LP is one of the best sounding commercial recording releases that this audiophile has ever heard! Dynamic, with thunderous bass, and silken highs; incredible sound stage and image specificity, this LP makes the digital versions sound like acoustic 78s by comparison! (OK, you caught me, I’m exaggerating, but you get the picture!). 
    All of this proves to me that the production process and the care taken (or not taken) is more important, ultimately, than the release format. Sure, High-res digital, whether LPCM, or SACD (DSD) (have the potential to be) better than Redbook CD, or analog. But unless best practices are followed from microphone to final product, the actual format can be irrelevant.

    I work for a Japanese company and have had the opportunity (and continue) to travel to Japan many times. As you know Japan adores physical media and have excelled in production workflows for video and music. I have acquired hundreds of these Japanese printed discs, 

    The label Venus (Hyper Magnum Sound) - primarily CDs, SACDs and now LPs - is an example of superb mastering techniques and manufacturing of the media (SACD, SHM-SACD, etc) . Now these discs are available in the US, of course at $30+ .... but the capture, editing mastering is insanely beautiful - even if the original material was recorded in studios are outside Japan. Right now I am revisiting all of these discs - exclusively Jazz - on my new set up - and it is really shocking to hear layers of details that (as far as I can rely on my memory) were not there the first time around.   Cheers....

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    1 hour ago, hgaggioni said:

    I work for a Japanese company and have had the opportunity (and continue) to travel to Japan many times. As you know Japan adores physical media and have excelled in production workflows for video and music. I have acquired hundreds of these Japanese printed discs, 

    The label Venus (Hyper Magnum Sound) - primarily CDs, SACDs and now LPs - is an example of superb mastering techniques and manufacturing of the media (SACD, SHM-SACD, etc) . Now these discs are available in the US, of course at $30+ .... but the capture, editing mastering is insanely beautiful - even if the original material was recorded in studios are outside Japan. Right now I am revisiting all of these discs - exclusively Jazz - on my new set up - and it is really shocking to hear layers of details that (as far as I can rely on my memory) were not there the first time around.   Cheers....

    Having, in another life, worked for Omron, Fujitsu, Oki Semiconductor, and Otari, I have been to Japan and spent more time there than I care to recall, so I can definitely relate to your observations about Japanese mastering and production practices when it comes to music (in the ‘80’s, I bought scores of Japanese video laserdiscs. Always found them to be better than the domestically available versions). I have lots of both 20-bit and 24-bit JVC XRCD titles (many jazz titles from labels such as Riverside and other small  jazz labels from the ‘50’s and ‘60’s as well as classics from the RCA and British Decca (London Records) catalogues) and they all sound superb - even the mono ones! 

    When in Japan, I always made sure that I had lots of money available as I would sometimes need to take along a foldable backpack to bring all the laserdiscs, and music CDs back with me that I purchased in Tokyo’s Aki Habara district!

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    https://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com/find_by_category/docs/UDP-LX800_CMQ%40180919_HR.pdf#page=2

    Quote

    The function completely turns off the analogue audio circuitry from power supply to output, by cutting the power supply to the transformer during HDMI connection. The HDMI’s S/N ratio further improves and realises high-quality audio and video playback.

     

    https://www.avsforum.com/threads/pioneer-udp-lx-500-800-owners-thread-no-price-talk.3018474/page-47#post-58812296

    Quote

    The Pure audio mode on LX800 is ideal because it shuts down all video circuits and does a clean audio transfer. Making the time delay (jitter) problem almost mute.

     

    Transport mechanism looked quite decent

     

    qGimqr6.jpg

     

    34Mv792.jpg

     

    And then a reversible upgrade could be applied to the PSU

     

    https://www.clonesaudio.com/product-page/psplx

     

    Replacing the clock(s) could provide further uptick (similar to Oppo UDP-205) in sound quality after the expiration of warranty

     

    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-78#post-14117821

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    20 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

    Looks good. I’d love to try one out against the Oppo UDP-205!

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    On 1/29/2021 at 11:44 PM, linger63 said:

     

     

     

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    I purchased the Chinese box, I have a Pontus and old Sony bdp-4100, I could not get it to work with SACDs and

    I have set DSD over hdmi in the Audio settings

     

    I have also read that someone could not get their Perfectwave SACD transport to work with the Pontus

     

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    7 minutes ago, Daveyu said:

    I purchased the Chinese box, I have a Pontus and old Sony bdp-4100, I could not get it to work with SACDs and

    I have set DSD over hdmi in the Audio settings

     

    I have also read that someone could not get their Perfectwave SACD transport to work with the Pontus

     

    I connected the PWT to Pontus over HDMI-i2s with no issue: set the 1X2X4X combination to 010. It is the same combination for XA5400/UBP-1100ES -> Chinese Box (i2s) -> to Pontus.

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    45 minutes ago, hgaggioni said:

    I connected the PWT to Pontus over HDMI-i2s with no issue: set the 1X2X4X combination to 010. It is the same combination for XA5400/UBP-1100ES -> Chinese Box (i2s) -> to Pontus.

    did you use an external Power supply?

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    1 minute ago, Daveyu said:

    did you use an external Power supply?

    NO....the box was powered by the HDMI(DSD) source from the player

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    10 minutes ago, hgaggioni said:

    NO....the box was powered by the HDMI(DSD) source from the player

    are you using any special cables?

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