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    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Review

    sbt-thumb.pngThe Logitech Squeezebox Touch outputs bit perfect digital audio at 16/44.1, 24/88.2 and 24/96 kHz. There I said it. I’ve been waiting to relay that fact to all Computer Audiophile readers for a couple weeks while finishing up this review. Support for high resolution audio via wireless streaming hasn’t come cheap over the last few years. The Logitech Transporter handled high resolution audio but started at $2000 and could easily double in price with some audiophile modifications. Bit transparency at 88.2 and 96 kHz via wireless for less than $300 is wonderful for audiophiles. If the Squeezebox Touch did nothing else correct it would still be worth the retail price. Fortunately there is much to like about the “Touch” including its sound quality.

    [PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]

     

     

     

    <b>What Is The Touch?</b>

     

    The Logitech Squeezebox Touch is a small and simple network music streamer. It features a 4.3” touchscreen and highly functional remote control. The “Touch” connects to any 802.11 b/g wireless network or via wired Ethernet. Analog audio outputs include a standard 3.5mm headphone jack and single ended analog RCA connections. Digital audio is output via either optical Toslink S/PDIF or electrical coaxial S/PDIF. Those not interested in connecting the Touch to a network can attach a hard drive directly to the USB port on the rear of the unit. The USB port will become increasingly useful as more audio companies release music on USB devices. Currently Cardas offers its <a href="http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=music&content_id=9&pagestring=USB+Audio+Cards">USB Audio Cards</a> and I’ve seen a prototype from an audiophile record label with similar offerings in the works. Due to the cramped quarters behind the Squeezebox Touch a little USB extension/dongle will be required for these USB Audio Cards.

     

     

     

    <b>Touching The Touch</b>

     

    Constructed completely of plastic the Squeezebox Touch is certainly not a product from Apple. Its $299 price tag (and support for FLAC) is also a clear indication it’s not from Apple. The Squeezebox Touch is likely constructed with more plastic than all components in the typical audiophile’s equipment rack combined. This and the fact it’s from Logitech, not a traditional high end audio company, are hurdles audiophiles will just have to get over. The 4.3” plastic touchscreen is nice. It’s many times better than the <a href="http://www.mimomonitors.com/products/imo-pivot-touch">IMO Pivot Touch</a>, but nothing like the glass multi-touch screen on an iPod Touch. The Squeezebox Touch is pretty responsive and requires no calibration like many touch devices. Fat fingers and all I was able to navigate through the menus and control buttons easily without error. After many hours of use with both the touch screen and remote control there is no doubt the remote is the best way to navigate the Squeezebox Touch. Even as I write this the Touch is sitting on my desk next to my keyboard, yet I’m using the remote to control the unit. This isn’t a knock against the touch screen. It’s more of a compliment to the designers of the remote control. I was able to navigate the menus much quicker using the remote because of its shortcuts like the Home button and number keys that double as letter keys in the same way as a telephone touch pad. The remote control is not built from a solid block of aircraft aluminium like some audiophile components but it may be more feature rich and functional than some of those expensive bricks. Some users will be happy to learn the Squeezebox Touch can be controlled via third party automation systems like AMX and Crestron.

     

     

     

    <b>Configuring The Touch</b>

     

    There are a few different ways to get music to the Squeezebox Touch. The simplest may be using the built-in USB port, but that method has too many limitations making it less practical. For example adding new music from a CD would require removing the USB drive, ripping the CD to the USB drive, and reconnecting the USB drive to the Touch. I’m sure this method will work great for some readers and may be just the thing to get network-nervous audiophiles into the Squeezebox era.

    Another method of serving music to a Squeezebox Touch is through the Windows, Mac, or Linux version of Squeezebox Server currently at version 7.5.0. Using this method requires the server software to be installed on a computer. The software must run at all times for the Squeezebox Touch to access locally stored music. This configuration works best for users with a computer that contains all music on the local hard drive and can remain on 24/7. Sure this can also work with music stored on a NAS drive but there is a much better option when a NAS is in use.

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/music-folder-location-full.png" class="thickbox" rel="sbt-folder-location"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/music-folder-location-thumb.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left" alt="sbt-folder-location-01"></a>The third method of serving music to a Squeezebox Touch entails running Squeezebox Server as a module on a NAS drive and pulling the music to the Touch directly from the NAS. This is the method I settled on for the review. I installed the <a href="http://naswebsite.com/wiki/Thecus_N5200_Module:_SQUEEZEBOXSERVER">Squeezebox Server module v. 7.5</a> on my Thecus N5200B Pro NAS. There is little configuration to be done via the web interface of the NAS module. The most important item is directing Squeezebox Server to the correct music folder on the NAS itself and scanning the music folder for music.

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/advanced-tab-schedule-scan-full.png" class="thickbox" rel="sbt-schedule-scan"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/advanced-tab-schedule-scan-thumb.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left" alt="sbt-schedule-scan-01"></a>One minor gripe I have with this part of the Squeezebox Server software is the somewhat hidden and undocumented scheduled scan feature. Nobody wants to manually scan their library every time new music is added. For some reason Logitech has hidden this feature deep within the Advanced Tab. I overlooked this complete section during the first week of the review. Scheduled scans or auto scanning seems like one of the first features any company would enable and make very conspicuous. Scheduled scans are off by default and virtually impossible to find information about on the Logitech website or Google without the exact search terms. Users unfamiliar with the scheduled scan feature have likely been using the readily visible techniques.

     

    Logitech has made this at least workable for the uneducated by allowing one to clear the entire library and rescan everything or look for new and changed music only. This manual button is easily visible on the first page of the Server settings. Creating a MySqueezebox.com account is encouraged by Logitech and allows one to synchronize some device settings and browse the app gallery, but it’s really nothing to write home about. It’s free and is pretty painless so I recommend readers create this account during setup.

     

    Configuring the Squeezebox Touch device itself is fairly easy but not without some annoyances. The biggest time waster for me was attempting to connect the Touch to my 802.11n wireless network. I don’t like to read user manuals so I tried for about 20-30 minutes to get the Touch connected. Then I downloaded the manual and searched for 802.11. It was listed only once without specifying what type of 802.11 network is required. Reluctantly I tried the 802.11g band on my Airport Extreme Simultaneous Dual Band router. The Touch connected via 802.11g using WPA2 Personal encryption (not required) without a problem.

     

    Once connected to a network selecting the music library is as simply as browsing the touch panel and selecting the name of the library.

     

    The only other real annoyance I have is also related to wireless networking on the Touch. Whenever the power is lost to the unit it is necessary to reselect the correct wireless network. The Touch does remember the network name and password but for some reason is unable to automatically reconnect once power is regained. Simply browsing a few levels deep into the advanced menu allows the user to select the displayed wireless network name and all is well.

     

     

     

    <b>Using The Touch</b>

     

    During this review I used the Squeezebox Touch in two different audio systems. The main system consisted of the Touch pulling music wirelessly from my Thecus NAS and connecting via Kimber Select coaxial S/PDIF cable to the Weiss Engineering DAC202. Sound quality comparisons were conducted using this Touch based system versus a Windows 7 / J River Media Center 15 computer pulling music wired from my Thecus NAS and connecting via FireWire to the Weiss DAC202. The second system consisted of the Touch pulling music wirelessly from my Thecus NAS and connecting via Kimber Select coaxial S/PDIF cable to the Peachtree Audio Nova and a pair of Avalon NP 2.0 Evolution loudspeakers. The second system was placed outside my dedicated listening room in another area of the house.

     

    Browsing one’s music via the Squeezebox Touch is self explanatory with menus like Artists, Albums, and Genre. I’ve seen <a href="http://www.boulderamp.com/Products/1021%20Page.html">CD players</a> more difficult to operate. In addition to browsing through standard menus the Touch allows browsing through the folder structure of the music files. This is very handy if the music library has not been rescanned since the addition of new material. As I mentioned earlier, I really like the remote control and prefer it over the actual touchscreen. One reason for this preference is the ability to quickly select letters of the alphabet using the number keypad like a telephone. For example pressing the number seven four times on the remote quickly displays artists starting with the letter S. The way to do this via the touchscreen is to press and hold a little dot/scroll bar on the right of the screen and drag it downward. This method is a little difficult at first until the right “touch” is developed by the user.

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/playback-window-full.png" class="thickbox" rel="sbt-playback"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/playback-window-thumb.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left" alt="sbt-playback-01"></a>Whether sitting in my listening chair or elsewhere in the house I also used the Squeezebox Touch web interface to control music playback. The multi-touch screen of an iPad works fairly well. I spent a few minutes trying to navigate a long list of artists without any success. Using two fingers to scroll was the simple solution. The 4.3” screen is on the borderline in terms of viewing it from the listening position. I usually sit between nine and twelve feet from my components. I was able to view the touchscreen enough to browse the menus via remote but I wouldn’t say I was easily and comfortably browsing the menus with my corrective lens aided vision. My familiarity with each menu certainly helped.

     

    The Squeezebox Touch has a fixed viewing angle reported to be around 35 degrees. This viewing angle works very well in a couple situations. When the Touch is positioned on a component rack and one is viewing the unit from the listening position the screen is angled appropriately. In addition the Touch viewing angle is great for desktop use when the unit is only a couple feet from the user. I found the Touch a little awkward when it was placed on top of my Avalon NP 2.0 Evolution loudspeaker at roughly 35” plus spikes on a wood floor. At 5’ 8” I’m not setting any height records but the Touch was still a bit low for the most comfortable use. Viewing the Touch at this height was OK, but angling one’s wrist unnaturally to navigate the menus was fatiguing. An adjustable screen angle could make this a non-issue for users set on using the touchscreen over the nice remote control.

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/my-screen-full.png" class="thickbox" rel="sbt-screen"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/my-screen-small.png" style="padding: 5pt 10pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left" alt="sbt-screen-01"></a>The Touch has five different background screen selections to view during playback. The default screen displays album art, track title, artist, album, and current track position. I used this screen most of the time as it provides the information I wanted to see. The other screens are somewhat cute but get old after a few hours. Namely the Volume Unit (VU) meter screen that harks back to the analog source days. It’s not a bad feature but it’s also not a feature I’d base a purchasing decision around.

     

    The Touch feature that surprised me most was how much I liked listening to radio stations through the device. I figured the usual Internet based radio stations and services like Pandora would be available much like nearly all devices of this type. Most of the Internet stations don’t thrill me although Pandora is a wonderful service. I was surprised at the number of local FM and AM stations available with a simple tap of the screen. I didn’t have to setup a custom feed or jump through any hoops to hear something local. This information is likely not new to die hard Squeezbox users but is a major selling point for people ready to dip their toes into the digital streaming water. Like any user I prefer not to purchase a component until I am certain it’s capable of meeting my needs. Logitech has already addresses this issue by offering a great <a href="http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/radiotime/radiotime.html">Station Search tool</a> (<a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/radio-1.png" class="thickbox" rel="sbt-radio">Image 1</a>, <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/radio-2.png" class="thickbox" rel="sbt-radio">Image 2</a>, <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2010/0525/radio-3.png" class="thickbox" rel="sbt-radio">Image 3</a>). This allows potential buyers to search for radio stations they would like to hear through the Squeezebox instead of going through the hassle of purchasing the unit and returning it if it doesn’t meet the user’s needs.

     

     

     

    <b>Listening Through The Touch</b>

     

    Good sound from a plastic wireless music streamer for $299 may be a tough pill for some audiophiles to swallow. The Squeezebox Touch is far from a boutique product with a linear power supply and impeccable sonics. The device does have some weaknesses as most people would suspect. The typically noisy switching power supply is one weakness but it can be dealt with through proper isolation. There is no doubt the Touch stretches that $299 extremely far and will challenge some favored components for convenience and sonic superiority.

     

    The absolute best part of the Squeezebox Touch is its ability to pass bit transparent digital audio at high resolutions including 24 bit / 88.2 kHz and 24 bit / 96 kHz. Without this capability the device would’ve been nothing special. With this capability the device is now a serious contender. All the extra features and niceties are simply minutiae to the most serious audiophiles. Using the new Weiss Engineering DAC202’s built-in transparency test I was able to varify the following sample rates are completely bit transparent through the Logitech Squeezebox Touch.

     

    16 bit / 44.1 kHz, 16 bit / 48 kHz, 16 bit / 88.2 kHz, 16 bit / 96 kHz

    24 bit / 44.1 kHz, 24 bit / 48 kHz, 24 bit / 88.2 kHz, 24 bit / 96 kHz

     

    When sample rates above 24/96 are passed through the Touch they are halved by the unit. 176.4 kHz material is output at 88.2 kHz and 192 kHz material is output at 96 kHz. This conversion destroys all bit transparency. I prefer devices like the Touch that at least play the music even if it’s no longer perfect. Some devices will not play any material beyond the supported sample rates and that robs users of a musical experience.

     

    During the review I only used the Touch via wireless 802.11g. The real advantage of this device is its ability to stream via wireless. I figured if it could perform via wireless it could perform via wired Ethernet. I played hours of 24/88.2 and 24/96 material and only suffered one minor dropout during playback. This may have had nothing to do with the Touch but I can’t pinpoint the cause. Even playback of 24/176.4 and 24/192 wasn’t an issue in terms of wireless dropouts. Throughout the house the wireless network is setup very well with two Apple Airport Extremes, one running dual bands of 802.11g and 802.11n. My experience may not translate to all networks, but I can guarantee nearly perfect wireless performance is possible.

     

    My listening comparisons were all done using the coaxial S/PDIF output of the Touch into the coaxial S/PDIF input of the Weiss Engineering DAC202 and a Windows 7 PC running J River Media Center v 15 connecting to the DAC202 via FireWire. The Touch sounded really good with most music in my collection (Jazz, Rock, and Pop). Long term listening through the Touch wasn’t fatiguing but did reveal some sonically rounded edges and a tiny bit of dullness compared to the PC/FireWire system. I will not call the Touch a dull component overall. When compared to one of the best interfaces and software configurations available it appears just a tad dull. Without a direct comparison I’m willing to bet the Touch would fall right into place in most users’ listening environments and not raise any questions about dullness. The biggest weakness of the Touch was evident during complex dynamic classical pieces. One of my go-to tracks is Michael Daugherty’s Niagara Falls from Reference Recording’s Crown Imperial release performed by the Dallas Wind Symphony (<a href="https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=030911111229">16/44.1 release</a> or <a href="https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD030911111229">24/96 release</a> or <a href="http://www.referencerecordings.com/HRxORDER.asp">24/176.4 release</a>). Compared to the PC/FireWire system the Touch S/PDIF system was a little muddy and had a bit less separation of instruments, especially the drums, when the symphony really got going. Niagara Falls is a beautiful piece of music all the way through and offers some “highlights” throughout. At 1:40 and 3:15 into the track are some difficult passages to reproduce on some systems. The Touch didn’t best the PC/FireWire system but still offered good sound. At 5:18 there is a loud “WAP!” sound from an unknown (to me) instrument. Listening through the Touch there is a lack of texture to the sound when compared to the PC/FireWire system. This texture is even more evident on extremely resolving systems like the one I heard at Magico <a href="http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Magico-Merging-Technologies-and-Matan">back in December</a>. I was in awe when we played this track through the new <a href="http://magico.net/magicoq/index.php">Magico Q5</a> loudspeakers. Despite these weaknesses I really like the Logitech Squeezebox Touch. The overall sound is very good through its digital outputs. What’s there not to like about wireless bit transparency at 88.2 and 96 kHz for less than $300?

     

     

     

    <b>Touch Wrap-up</b>

     

    <a href="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/cash-logo-black.png" class="thickbox" rel="LinnDS-I"><img src="http://images.computeraudiophile.com/ca/cash-logo-black-thumb.jpg" style="padding: 5pt 5pt 5pt 5pt;" align="left" alt="CASH-List"></a>The Logitech Squeezebox Touch wireless music streamer is definitely not a classic high end audio component. Its plastic construction may even be frowned upon by some audiophiles. Those who aren’t overly stubborn and are willing to try the Touch will be rewarded by a very nice product. The Touch may not be the best everyday player in a high end system, but there are countless other great system configurations where the Touch will excel. As I complete this review I am listening through a pair of Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro earphones connected to the headphone jack in back of the Touch and accessing all my music wirelessly from my desktop without involving my computer. The $299 price tag of the Touch can’t be overestimated. For less than the sales tax on some audio cables the Squeezebox Touch offers wireless, high resolution, bit transparency, touchscreen, very functional remote, and very good sound quality. Although it’s far from perfect the low price, terrific features, and very good sound quality guarantee the Logitech Squeezebox Touch a spot on the Computer Audiophile Suggested Hardware List (<a href="http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-Suggested-Hardware-List">C.A.S.H.</a>).

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Product Information

    <ul>

    <li>Price - $299</li>

    <li>Squeezebox Touch Product Page - <a href="http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/devices/5745">Link</a></li>

    <li>Squeezebox Touch Features Guide - <a href="http://files.computeraudiophile.com/2010/0525/sbt-fg.pdf">Link</a></li>

    <li>Supported Audio Formats - MP3, FLAC, WAV, AIFF, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, HE-AACv2, HD-AAC, Apple Lossless, WMA Lossless, APE, MPC and WavPack.</li>

    </ul>

     

     

     

    Associate Equipment: <a href="http://files.computeraudiophile.com/2010/0418/Brochure_Fidelio.pdf">Verity Audio Fidelio loudspeakers</a>, <a href="http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/mcintosh-mc275-vacuum-tube-power-amplifier.asp">McIntosh MC275 amplification</a>, <a href="http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/products.aspx?type=accessories">Richard Gray's Power Company High Tension Wires</a>, <a href="http://www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/">Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC</a>, <a href="http://www.usbdacs.com/Products/Products.html">Wavelength Audio Proton</a>, <a href="http://www.ayre.com/products_detail.cfm?productid=12">Ayre AX-7e Integrated Amp</a>, <a href="http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server-CAPS">C.A.P.S. server</a>, <a href="http://www.belcantodesign.com/Product_USBlink.html">Bel Canto USB Link</a>, <a href="http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/">Halide Design Bridge</a>, <a href="http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/product/debussy-dac"><i>d</i>CS Debussy DAC</a>, <a href="http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/product/puccini-u-clock"><i>d</i>CS Puccini U-Clock</a>, <a href="http://www.kimber.com/products/interconnects/digital/usb/bbus/cu/">Kimber USB Cu</a>, <a href="http://www.kimber.com/products/interconnects/digital/usb/bbus/ag/">Kimber USB Ag</a>, <a href="http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/system1/digital-analog-converter/dac1-pre">Benchmark DAC1 PRE</a>, <a href="http://www.kimber.com/products/interconnects/analog/select/singleended/ks1011/">Kimber Select KS1011 Analog Cables</a>, <a href="http://www.kimber.com/products/interconnects/digital/select/ks2020/">Kimber Select KS2020 Digital Cable</a>, <a href="http://www.kimber.com/products/loudspeakercables/monocle/x/">Kimber Monocle X Loudspeaker Cable</a>, <a href="http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=SPZfqXDJvadmFPoh&templete=2">ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim</a>, <a href="http://www.apple.com/ipad/">Apple iPad</a>, <a href="http://www.amarraaudio.com/">Sonic Studio's Amarra</a>, <a href="http://www.m2tech.biz/products.html">M2Tech hiFace</a>, <a href="http://www.weiss-highend.ch/dac202/index.html">Weiss Engineering DAC202</a>, <a href="http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=13">Lynx Studio AES16 Digital I/O Card</a>.      




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    I am in awe of this little beastie. I cannot believe how good it sounds, it is flat out competitive with a Mac running Amarra. If I could hook the Proton to it without USB artifacts, it would, hands down, be competitive with systems costing 10X as much, IMNSHO. <br />

    <br />

    Question: This little box is so damn good, would it's big brother (the Transporter) be even better? Or is it a case of the Touch leapfrogging over the older technology? I am tempted in the extreme at the moment. <br />

    <br />

    -Paul<br />

    <br />

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    Comparisons to Transporter:<br />

    <br />

    Transporter analogue out significantly better.<br />

    <br />

    Touch digital outs, competitive with Transporter, most (not all)users said it was very slightly inferior. They pretty much all agreed that if you have a Touch and are using the digital out to an external DAC, not much reason to get a Transporter. Improvement very small if at all.

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    No, the SBT delivers music only to it's own analogue or digital outs. SBS software on your PC doesn't output music to a computer soundcard, only to a network, in other words the SBT.<br />

    <br />

    The only exception to this that I know of is the Sonore version of Vortexbox, and they've got a licensed hack that allows you to use an SB as a remote and get output from the computer.<br />

    <br />

    Logitech does have a remote app (Squeezeplay) that you can load on a laptop or PC(interface is very similar to the Touch), and it will work with SBS on your server and output music to the soundcard of the Laptop or PC that it is loaded onto. But then your Laptop is the wifi remote, not the Touch. <br />

    <br />

    <br />

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    Hello<br />

    <br />

    I'm currently using to play my FLAC files, an Acer Laptop, connected via USB to an ARcam rDac.<br />

    All my Flac files are in a 1 TB HD.<br />

    I honestly don't intend to play files wirelessly.<br />

    The thin is that my desktop pc is ending it's life and instead of investing on another one, I would replace it by the laptop.<br />

    That's where the Squeezebox enter.<br />

    And the question is: <br />

    Can I connect the HD directly to the squeezebox?<br />

    My HD is now w/ aprox 600 gb of flac files. Will it, while connected directly to the Touch, create any sort of conflict?<br />

    Obviously, I will get it connected to the rDac.<br />

    All suggestions, opinions, help will be much appreciated.<br />

    <br />

    Thanks a lot<br />

    <br />

    Cheers<br />

    David

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    Yes, a hard drive connects directly to the Squeezebox Touch.<br />

    <br />

    In my experience, the SB Touch's software is a bit buggy (disconnects from hd randomly, fails to connect timely, skips to next song before current song is complete...).<br />

    <br />

    Not sure what everyone else's experience is. Most of my time with the unit is in the car as well. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.<br />

    <br />

    The DAC in the SB Touch is solid and I don't think an external one is necessary if the only thing you're considering is sound quality.<br />

    <br />

    If the software didn't give me issues, it would be awesome. I'm not sure there is anything else out there like it, even today.

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    If you want to use the SB more for as a social kind of player then using a HDD with USB won't do any harm. The DAC is great for the price.<br />

    OTOH, if you intend to use it a serious tool for music reproduction I would only use it as a digital transport and without USB, preferably with the ethernet connection. I connect mine to an external DAC which is way better than the SB DAC (which is should, since it's much more expensive) and I've been rather happy.<br />

    best regards<br />

    André

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    Paul you've mentioned in one of your posts that an upgrade in the power supply for touch did not do much help re SQ.<br />

    <br />

    Correct me if I am wrong, it is my understanding that you use it as a transport, without the interfrence of its internal DAC (I came to this conclusion from your signature-> Peachtree DAC IT). People in SB forums mention that using it as such, linear power supply does not help much. They claim a difference when using analog output interface of the touch (hence the involvement of internal DAC and the need to use more internal circutry -> increased interference and noise from the power supply) <br />

    <br />

    Do you agree with that assesment? <br />

    <br />

    And was the upgrade the famous "welborne labs" linear supply or something else.<br />

    <br />

    I am considering an upgrade but I do not want to make an investment if it does not make sense.<br />

    <br />

    Thx

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    The internal DAC is okay, but not good enough. When using an external DAC, there doesn't seem to be any (or at least much) improvement when using an higher quality power supply. <br />

    <br />

    I posit that the improvements with a better supply were mostly on older models; the Touch standard power supply seems to be much better built. <br />

    <br />

    -Paul<br />

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    Caner,<br />

    I use the SB Touch as a digital transport with a Welborne PSU and I disagree thouroughlly with the assesstment that it doesn't make any difference. It was almost an entire device upgrade in itself. OTOH I have a very transparent system, so your mileage may vary.<br />

    I significantly improved LF, taking the wooliness out of it and thus cleaning up the whole harmonic spectrum. I believe that due to that soundstage and tridimensionality improved quite a bit. One of the best upgrades I've ever had. Unfortunately Welborne isn't the best with customers, but once you get the PSU (I'd recommend letting them build it for you, since they tend to forget to send parts in the DIY kit) it kind of a non-issue.<br />

    Hope I could help out.<br />

    best regards<br />

    André

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    Thank you for your input.

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    Below is my system I have 2 different setups:<br />

    <br />

    Synology DS212 -> SBS -> SB Touch -> SPDIF (Coaxial) -> Weiss DAC2 -> GamuT D3i (pre) -> GamuT D200i -> Revel Ultima Salon 2 <br />

    <br />

    For critical listening I use my MBP, I replaced the optical bay with a SSD drive so it has 2 OCZ Vertex 3 SSDs 240GB each -> Decibel -> FW interface -> GamuT D3i -> GamuT D200i -> Revel Ultima Salon 2. <br />

    <br />

    Cables are by GamuT (wormholes) and Oyaide Neo for FW interface.<br />

    <br />

    Needless to say but must confess: I still have goosebumps listening to certain tunes at night; that is how much I enjoy listening to my system (I am known to wake up in the middle of the night and hug the speakers - observed by my spouse with disbelief)<br />

    <br />

    OK let me get over this and ask you this though, to me the biggest improvement for SB Touch can have is in the domain of detail. I value dynamic range a lot and to my ears, touch is quite good at that, but the detail and seperation is not there. I am looking for ways to improve touch in that domain (It is not as clean as the set up #2 too, but that I think that is harder to fix).<br />

    <br />

    Will the power supply help me achieve this? Any other tricks that comes to your mind that might help.<br />

    <br />

    I appreciate your response.<br />

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    Caner,<br />

    great setup you've got. I'm not sure if the SB Touch will be able to beat the Weiss' excellent FW interface, but with a few tweaks it will, at least, give it a serious run for it's money.<br />

    You're using GamuT coax digital cable, is that it?<br />

    The biggest improvement came with the external PSU. Some hail Teddy Pardo's or Paul Hynes as the best on the market, but the Welborne served me just fine. I got more depth, height and transparency. I believe it has to do with a much cleaner e steadier PS and thus really helping LFs. I'd say that the rest is just a matter of consequence. Detail got better, since I had a blacker background.<br />

    I imagine that you're familiar with Klaus' (Soundcheck) mods SW mods to the Touch. It helped a lot in the detail and transparency department, though a few might find it a little clinical. I, for my part, am liking it very much, since I want to know what's on the recording. The KEFs are ruthlessly revealing (as are your Salons) and the Gryphon does it's job very well.<br />

    If you want to make the best of your Touch I'd say you should use it wired. It wasn't a night-and-day difference, but paved the way for other things to pop up.<br />

    Hope I could help you out.<br />

    best regards<br />

    André

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    ah, forgot to say that you definitely should use it with a computer, not a NAS Server with squeezecenter on it (if that's how you're using it).

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    Thanks a ton. Will follow your advice and see what happens.<br />

    <br />

    Big fan of Gryphon line BTW.<br />

    <br />

    Best

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    Folks - I'd very much appreciate some advice. I've got a Squeezebox Duet which pulls from a hard drive on which I've got my music in FLAC and WAV. The hard drive is attached to a standard Sony laptop. The Duet runs through a Bryston DAC. What I'm wondering is whether I'd get better sound some other way, be it running the hard drive via USB to a digital player such as the Bryston BDP-1 or some other way. I love the ease of the Duet, including the remote control, but I wonder if I'm limiting myself somehow. Thanks for your thoughts.

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    This evening for some reason, the volume control on the T747 got turned up all the way. As I was walking over to check it, I heard a quiet but persistent whine coming through the speakers, pitched at about 3khz. <br />

    <br />

    Now this was odd, as I was sure I had cranked everything to full volume during installation testing, and I had never heard that before. <br />

    <br />

    I think I have some more troubleshooting to do to nail it down, but right now I am suspicious of the Touch. <br />

    <br />

    When an S/PDIF connection from the Touch to the Peachtree DAC*IT is connected, and the Touch is powered and ready, the whine occurs. <br />

    <br />

    When there is no S/PDIF connection, the whine is not there. <br />

    <br />

    Confusingly enough, connecting just an optical connection from the Touch to the Peachtree produces the whine. Same is true with a Coax connection. I have not tried a USB connection, or connecting a different source at this time. <br />

    <br />

    The whine occurs on all inputs to the Peachtree, even if just the Optical (or Coax) is connected. <br />

    <br />

    Duh... that either points to the Touch or the DAC*IT, but I'm not sure which. The whine is far too high in pitch to be a ground loop hum. <br />

    <br />

    There is no whine if I feed the analog output of the Touch to the T747. <br />

    <br />

    Does anyone else with a Touch hear anything like this?<br />

    <br />

    -Paul<br />

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