Jump to content
  • The Computer Audiophile
    The Computer Audiophile

    AudioQuest DragonFly Red & DragonFly Black Review

    thumb.png

    1-Pixel.png

    Four years ago I crowned the original AudioQuest DragonFly 1.0 Computer Audiophile's Product of the Year for 2012. The original $250 "Fly" beat out the $15,500 EMM Labs DAC2X for this honor. In the years since the DragonFly's introduction, countless clones, copies, and derivative designs hit the market. But, AudioQuest clearly invented this category of products and it's the original DragonFly to which all similar products have been compared. While other companies were figuring out how to build a better DragonFly through endless money raising campaigns and support for the highest sample rates known to man, AudioQuest was hard at work reinventing the Fly. AudioQuest had already identified a drawback to its original DragonFly design, but the technology to resolve the issue simply didn't exist. What does a smart company do when the technology it needs doesn't exist? The company creates what it needs and beats the competition to market while the competition is doubling down on outdated designs. Using new technology AudioQuest improved and expanded the DragonFly family. The new products deserved so much more than a simple numerical model number increase, that AudioQuest named them the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red. Due to AudioQuest's solid industry vision and the removal of the iPhone 7 3.5mm headphone jack, the new DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red are positioned perfectly to fill a giant void for high end devices facilitating better quality mobile playback. If history is the best predictor of the future, I have no doubt we'll see an endless supply of cheap and expensive copycats attempting to quickly recreate what AudioQuest has developed over the last several years. However, as the saying goes (and if you're anything like me), why get an imitation when you can have the original?[PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]

     

     

    v1v1.2-black-red.jpg

    Pictured above from left to right: A well-worn DragonFly v1.0, DragonFly v1.2, DragonFly Black, DragonFly Red.

     

     

     

    Mobile? What?

     

     

    The DragonFly products, past and present, are many things to many people. Whether a main system DAC with the volume set to maximum for connection to a preamp, or a portable DAC / headphone amplifier for use in a laptop on the go or desktop at work, the DragonFly is an all-around blue-chip product. The new Black and Red units only serve to improve upon the original and improve our enjoyment of the greatest music in the world. However one uses the DragonFly is 100% cool from my standpoint. In this review I'm going to focus on how I use the DragonFly, as a mobile sonic powerhouse for my iOS devices. I think this is such an important angle about which to educate the CA community, that it's worth concentrating the entire review on use of the Black and Red in this fashion. Plus, I'm positive that plenty of other sites and magazines have reviewed the DragonFly Black and Red units in a more traditional setting connected to main systems or laptops. If readers want to elevate their mobile listening experiences now or in the future, I highly recommend continuing with this review.

     

     

     

    How I Listen On The Go

     

     

    Over the years, I've gone from using dedicated audio players, such as those from Astell & Kern, to using my iPhone exclusively for mobile listening. I no longer want to carry a second large device with limited storage and connectivity, when I can access 30 million lossless Tidal tracks from my iPhone with or without a WiFi connection. Being grandfathered into the unlimited AT&T LTE data plan enables me to keep up my habit of streaming over 10 gigabytes of Tidal music per month without additional charges. I know this sounds sacrilegious to some audiophiles, but I still consider myself to be as hardcore as anyone when it comes to my desire for the best music and the best sound quality. Thus, when the new DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red were released, a whole new level of quality playback was brought to my listening life. I started connecting the new units to my iPhone 6 Plus for listening while traveling by planes, trains, and automobiles.

     

    Connecting a new DragonFly to an iOS device requires either the Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter ($29) or Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter ($39). There is a major difference between these two adapters and it has nothing to do with USB 3 support. The standard lightning to USB adapter is smaller and has a single USB port for connection to the DragonFly Black or Red. The lightning to USB 3 adapter features a single USB port plus a lightning power port. The power port figuratively changed my life. This enables the user to connect the lightning (male) end to the iOS device, the DragonFly Black or Red to the USB port, and a power cable to the added lightning (female) port (that's not available on the standard adapter). This is incredibly nice when flying on an airplane or driving in one's car for extended periods of time. For example, I recently flew to Sardinia, Italy, for a McIntosh Group event and I was able to power my iPhone the entire twelve hours, via onboard USB outlets in the headrests, while listening through the DragonFly Black and Red. I am so dependent on my iPhone for information that I can't travel without it having enough power when I arrive at my destination. The Apple lightning to USB 3 adapter is the best $39 I've spent in HiFi in a long time. I also use this same adapter for playback in my car with the DragonFly / iPhone combination. My car has an analog input that enables me to send analog audio from the DragonFly to the head unit. I realize that my car performs analog to digital conversion for DSP upon receiving the analog signal, but I have to get the analog signal out of my iPhone anyway and I prefer to do that the best way possible. I then run a lightning cable from one of my car's power ports (cigarette lighter for those of you still hanging on to the past) to the input of the adapter. This powers my iPhone the entire road trip.

     

     

    0l-usb.png

    0l-usb-end.png

     

    0l-usb3.png

    0l-usb3-end.png

     

     

     

     

     

     

    DragonFly Black And DragonFly Red

     

     

    It's important to understand the why and the how of the new DragonFly Black and Red features that make the units such an improvement over the previous generations. Several years ago when the original DragonFly was developed, AudioQuest and designer Gordon Rankin (the godfather of USB audio) selected the TAS1020B USB controller for versions 1.0 and 1.2. This controller was released in 2002 when low power consumption of such chips wasn't on the list of priorities. However, it was the best option for the DragonFly at the time. The large power consumption of this controller caused iOS devices to immediately disable the device and popup an error message about the unit using too much power. AudioQuest was aware of this design drawback, but a better option didn't exist at the time (don't even think about low power and XMOS solutions in the same sentence). Knowing that mobile device audio playback would greatly increase, AudioQuest and Gordon Rankin set out to create a low-power-consumption USB controller chip. They entered a working relationship with the Microchip company and began working on what would become the Microchip PIC32MX. After years of work and fine tuning by the parties involved, the new Microchip controller measures 77% less power consumption than the TAS1020B and 95% less than the most efficient XMOS solution. Not only that, but the 32-bit PIC32MX is software upgradable (by the end user) and features an ultra-low-noise power supply, minimizing the audible effects of high-frequency interference.

     

    The new USB controller chip is the single biggest improvement of the new DragonFly Black and Red, but the additional smaller improvements add up to an equal or better effect, making the whole greater than the sum of the parts. These other improvements are also where the differences between the Black and Red appear.

     

    The DragonFly Black features the same soft-touch finish as the original version 1.0 and 1.2 units and supports PCM audio up through 24 bit / 96 kHz like the originals. The Black features 1.2 volts of direct-coupled output. This output should drive most low- and medium-efficiency headphones. I used Grado RS-1, JH Audio JH13, Audeze LCD-XC, and the AudioQuest NightHawk headphones with the DragonFly Black and had no problems powering each model. The DAC chip in the Black is the 32-bit ESS 9010 with minimum phase filtering. Another major difference between the Black and Red, is that the Black features an analog volume control. This analog volume control is controlled digitally by the host computer or iOS / Android device. An analog volume control can be nice when listening at very low volume levels. Where a digital volume control can reduce resolution by chopping off bits of the audio signal to reduce volume, an analog control has no such limitation. Fortunately, for some devices with digital volume controls there are engineering methods to deal with this issue, and the DragonFly Red is such as device.

     

    The DragonFly Red features a 64-bit "bit-perfect" digital volume control. This volume control is inside an ESS 9016 DAC chip. This chip, like the 9010 in the DF Black, has a sophisticated minimum phase digital filter. The DF Red offers a much higher output than the Black, at 2.1 volts. This high-level direct-coupled output is capable of driving nearly any headphone on the market. I used my 300-ohm Senhheiser HD600 headphones with the DF Red. I had no trouble driving these headphones to very high levels and I loved the sound. Like the Black, the Red supports PCM audio up through 24 bit / 96 kHz. Readers who desire a nice-looking and nice-feeling product will love the DragonFly Red's glossy automotive finish with gold lettering. This thing just oozes quality.

     

    Both DragonFly Black and Red use Streamlength ® asynchronous USB code developed by Gordon Rankin and licensed by many high-end audio manufacturers for some of the best USB audio devices in the industry.

     

     

     

     

     

    DragonFly Black Or DragonFly Red?

     

     

    Both DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red are great improvements over the original DragonFly 1.0 and 1.2. The improvement over the iPhone analog headphone output is something I expected, but not something I thought would be as substantial as I experienced. It's commonly thought in many circles that the iPhone features a really good analog output. I guess I thought it was pretty good, before I compared it to the DragonFly Black and Red in head-to-head listening sessions. Readers should also note that the DragonFly requires some time to warm up and for the oscillator to stabilize before a head-to-head comparison will provide the best and most accurate results.

     

    Friday August 5th, 2016, my wife and I will attend the Pearl Jam concert at Boston's Fenway Park. Having been to their show at Chicago's Wrigley Field a few years ago, I'm like a kid before Christmas just waiting for this special ballpark concert to start. With this in mind, I've been listening to quite a bit of Pearl Jam through the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red. In fact, I've been streaming my PJ4CA Tidal playlist extensively. Listening with my iPhone 6 Plus, Sennheiser HD600 headphones (old but still one of the best), and the DragonFly Red, I squeezed a large amount of enjoyment out of this playlist. The track "Present Tense" from PJ's No Code album has all kinds of proper punch when it kicks in around 3:59 into the track. Switching to the analog output of the iPhone 6 Plus, this punch is completely gone. The track just goes limp with no dynamics. Pearl Jam's "Better Man," from Vitalogy, is lifeless without the DragonFly Red, even at 1:55 when the track really gets going. After connecting the Red, "Better Man" has life, delineation of instruments, and emotion is pulled from Eddie's vocals that simply isn't there without the Fly. It's also possible to hear micro details in the guitar work of Stone Gossard and Mike McCready on this track as well as album Producer Brendan O'Brien's organ. Readers may be interested to know Pearl Jam recorded "Better Man" for the Vs album but refused to put in on the album because it was too accessible (in other words too good / too big of a hit). The band even wanted to give the track away for a benefit album for someone else to sing, but in the end decided to hold on to it and re-recorded it for the Vitalogy album. Say what you will, but it's one of the best rock and roll songs of all time and can give me goose bumps when played through high-quality audio gear. Through the DragonFly Red, I got goose bumps.

     

    Switching gears to a little rap and hip hop was also illustrative of the benefits the DragonFly Red can provide. NWA's "Fuck Tha Police" is an entirely different song when heard through the Red as compared to the iPhone analog output. Without the Fly, the bass is just not there. The track is dead, leading me to believe the entire Straight Outta Compton album should not be listened to without a DragonFly. CA readers may not know that I am a big fan of Nicki Minaj and have all her albums offline within Tidal. When I get on an airplane, I always listen to Nicki. Dirty lyrics, great beats, and a unique voice. I'm sold. Listening to Nicki's track "Starships," the DragonFly Red had complete control over the bass and enabled Nicki's vocal to emanate from the mix with great clarity. Switching back to the iPhone standard output, this track and the whole album simply falls apart. It's a soup sandwich without the Fly.

     

    Combining elements of rock and rap, Rage Against The Machine is one of the best bands of all time and features some of the best pure musicians of all time. Listening to Rage's debut album through the Sennheisers and DragonFly Red, the Red had awesome control over the entire frequency spectrum. On "Killing In The Name" and "Take The Power Back," the extremely powerful bass, guitar crunch, and drum kick had visceral impact and a certain clarity of which the iPhone alone could only dream. Listening through the headphone output of the iPhone 6 Plus provides a listening experience I'd rather not have again. Rage requires the Red. Period.

     

    Rather than go through all the same tracks with a different combination of headphones and the DragonFly Black, I can say that the Black was my preferred choice (over the DF Red) only when listening with my JH Audio JH13 in-ear monitors. These earphones are very sensitive, requiring the volume of the DragonFly be turned down substantially. In this combination, the analog volume control of the Black was a bit better fit than Red with the JH13. When using the Black and the JH13, the same sonic impressions that I heard through the Red and other headphones were present. Control, clarity, and great delineation of instruments were hallmarks of the sonic character.

     

     

     

    Conclusion

     

     

    cash-logo-black-thumb.jpgAudioQuest continues the dynasty of its category defining DragonFly with the new DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red. Both devices could fit perfectly in a home-audio system or as the centerpiece of any traveler's laptop-based system. However for me, the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red are critical pieces of my mobile iOS playback setup. Whenever I'm in the car or on a plane, I have the DragonFly Red or Black connected to my iPhone 6 Plus. The days of using a separate digital audio player are circling the drain because of the new AudioQuest DragonFly Red and DragonFly Black. It simply doesn't make sense to carry an extra player with limited storage and connectivity, when one has access to all the music ever made and excellent sound quality, by using an iPhone and AQ DragonFly. In addition, when Apple removes the analog headphone output from the iPhone, the AudioQuest DragonFly will become a necessity. Only rubes will stick with the Apple EarPods with built-in lightning support or switch to one of the few lightning-enabled headphones. Combined with a lightning USB adapter and an iPhone, the DragonFly Red and DragonFly Black enabled me to hear albums like never before on the iOS platform. The original DragonFly was one of those products everybody just had to have. The new DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red improve upon the original and expand its use into new territories. If history is any indication, the new Flys will be replacing a ton of originals and improving the sound of countless iPhones for the first time. Unequivocally recommended and C.A.S.H. Listed.

     

     

     

     

     

    Images

     

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]28225[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]28226[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]28227[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]28228[/ATTACH]

     

     

     

     

    1-Pixel.png

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Product Information:

     

    • Product - AudioQuest DragonFly Black ($99), AudioQuest DragonFly Red ($199)
    • Product Page - DragonFly Series
    • Where To Buy - Dealers & Distributors
    • Product - Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter ($29) LINK
    • Product - Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter ($39) LINK

     

     

     

     

    1-Pixel.png

     

     

     

     

    1-Pixel.png

     

    Where To Buy In Australia:

     

    Addicted To Audio

     

    a2a.png

     

     

     

    1-Pixel.png

     

     

    Associated Music:

     

     

     

     

    1-Pixel.png

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Associated Equipment:

     

     

     

    1-Pixel.png




    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Hi Chris,

     

    I also have the Sennheiser HD600 headphones. I love them and have tried other headphones and I can see why Head-fi.org still ranks the HD650s tops and the HD600s 2nd. Did you try the Sennheiser HD600 headphones with the black and did the black drive the Sennheiser HD600 headphones sufficiently?

     

    Thank You,

     

    Jeff

     

    Chris,

     

    Great review as usual! One question for the present and two about the future (you can probably guess what they are):

     

    1) Any compatibility issues regarding DF's with Android or Windows Phone?

    2) What are AQ's MQA implementation plans (will these DF's be software upgradeable)?

    3) Any future plans for higher data rate support like 192 or DSD? - I hear you groaning already :-)

     

    BTW, I saw RATM back in the late 90s at the LA Forum and it was hands down the best concert I've ever attended (PJ and Springsteen included), a sea of undulating bodies. Most unusual concert: a double bill of David Bowie followed by Nine Inch Nails. Both great shows and they shared the stage for an awesome medley, but most of the Bowie audience left after he finished and most of the NIN audience didn't arrive until after Bowie finished. Too bad for them, but it allowed me to move to the front of the stage :-)

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    As a long-time visitor, this review prompts me to comment on a trend I've noticed--reviews increasingly seem like they quote untested information from the manufacturer. Your readers look to you for independent thought. I now read the info here more skeptically, and since your subjective comments rely on your readers' trust, this is a big loss. Worst examples from this review:

     

    1. "The new Black and Red units only serve to improve upon the original and improve our enjoyment of the greatest music in the world.". Since the review invites us to look at other sites for information on any use case but an iPhone streaming Tidal, this statement is completely without any foundation in the review itself. It sounds like a quote from a marketing blurb, particularly everything after the word "and".

     

    2. "The new products deserved so much more than a simple numerical model number increase, that AudioQuest named them the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red." The name/version of the product doesn't affect performance; again, it's just marketing

     

    3. "This thing just oozes quality." Appearance doesn't prove quality, performance and durability are what matters.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Thanks for the review, Chris. I picked up a Dragonfly Red at Gig Harbor Audio on Friday. Works great with my iPhone and the USB Camera Adapter.

     

    I was very happy that the Dragonfly can be powered by the phone. I have a Meridian Explorer 2, and was disappointed that it can't be powered by a phone or an iPad. I told the shop owner he may sell a lot of these if the iPhone 7 really comes with no headphone jack. :)

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Well, trust is an important issue. But the difference between trust-to-buy and trust-to-try.

    Okay, will readers know the difference ? Yeah, nowadays, paucity of brick-and-mortar specialist dealers, prevalence of online shops.

    Should reviews be engaging or...

    Of scepticism, I basically linked this to my signature on the first day

     

    As a long-time visitor, this review prompts me to comment on a trend I've noticed--reviews increasingly seem like they quote untested information from the manufacturer. Your readers look to you for independent thought. I now read the info here more skeptically, and since your subjective comments rely on your readers' trust, this is a big loss. Worst examples from this review:

     

    1. "The new Black and Red units only serve to improve upon the original and improve our enjoyment of the greatest music in the world.". Since the review invites us to look at other sites for information on any use case but an iPhone streaming Tidal, this statement is completely without any foundation in the review itself. It sounds like a quote from a marketing blurb, particularly everything after the word "and".

     

    2. "The new products deserved so much more than a simple numerical model number increase, that AudioQuest named them the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red." The name/version of the product doesn't affect performance; again, it's just marketing

     

    3. "This thing just oozes quality." Appearance doesn't prove quality, performance and durability are what matters.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    As a long-time visitor, this review prompts me to comment on a trend I've noticed--reviews increasingly seem like they quote untested information from the manufacturer. Your readers look to you for independent thought. I now read the info here more skeptically, and since your subjective comments rely on your readers' trust, this is a big loss. Worst examples from this review:

     

    1. "The new Black and Red units only serve to improve upon the original and improve our enjoyment of the greatest music in the world.". Since the review invites us to look at other sites for information on any use case but an iPhone streaming Tidal, this statement is completely without any foundation in the review itself. It sounds like a quote from a marketing blurb, particularly everything after the word "and".

     

    2. "The new products deserved so much more than a simple numerical model number increase, that AudioQuest named them the DragonFly Black and DragonFly Red." The name/version of the product doesn't affect performance; again, it's just marketing

     

    3. "This thing just oozes quality." Appearance doesn't prove quality, performance and durability are what matters.

    Hi Tom - Thanks for being a long-time visitor. With 2 posts in four years, you're in the camp of 98% of CA readers. Most just read without commenting. Thus, I take it you felt a strong need to comment in this review, based on your perception. I like nothing more than to read honest comments, both good and constructive.

     

    Let's dive into your constructive criticism to see if we can turn this into something good for the CA community.

     

    First, the words in this, and all my, reviews are 100% my own and reflect only my experience with the product. When I am jazzed by a product, I write much more enthusiastically about the product than when a product is ho-hum. Please let me know if something seems untested in this review. I test everything I about which I write. When it comes to independent thought, I think it's pretty clear that this review contains nothing but independent thought. I don't know of another HiFi site that would focus a review solely on the use of a product with an iOS device. i wanted to do 1) something different that all the other sites, and 2) relay to the CA community exactly how I use these devices and how they may benefit from using the devices like me. it would have been far easier to connect the Flys to my main system and A/B compare them to my $100,000+ setup. That would have bored me and likely the readers and taught the community nothing. In this review I also included an educational piece that tells how to use the DFs with an iOS device. You may have already known about the options, but I can guarantee you most people were unaware. Writing about a device unlike most other publications, educating people, and offering my honest opinion, is pretty independent in my book.

     

    1. That sentence is 100% sincere. I am a music lover who loved great quality sound. I truly believe and wanted to get the point across to the CA community that the new DFs do indeed improve the quality of our music on the go. If better sound quality doesn't increase your enjoyment of your favorite music, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. I've found that most people at CA have increased enjoyment of their favorite music when they use a component capable of delivering better sound quality. I don't see how you connect the dots between my statement and lack of a foundation etc... The statement if 100% fact. If the DFs improve our enjoyment of music, what's wrong with the statement? I hope you can clarify your thinking on this one. Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I just don't follow the logic.

     

     

    2. I can't your your opinion is wrong because it's just an opinion, but I do disagree. Suggesting you know about all names for all products and the reasons for them is a bit disingenuous. I believe names can be both marketing and indicative of a performance change or such a dramatic change for the consumer that a simple increment in numerical value doesn't do it justice. Going from the DragonFly 1 to 1.2 was a fairly small change and not a change at all with respect to the USB controller that enables iOS / Android usage. Calling the new DFs 1.3/1.4 would undersell the nature of the change.

     

     

    3. Again, we see things quite differently. Looking at a new Rolls Royce Serenity Phantom (LINK) with its lush custom interiors, I can easily say "this thing oozes quality." The adjective, "oozing quality" is taking creative license to describe what I see and feel. In the audio world, just like the automobile world, product can ooze quality. In this instance, the new DF red oozes quality. To suggest something oozes quality means exactly that, it looks and feels like a high quality product. High quality products usually offer good durability and I believe the DF Red is no exception. Oozing quality doesn't necessarily mean anything about specific performance metrics. If anyone was mislead into thinking the DF Red has great "performance" based on my statement that "This thing oozes quality," and in context of its look and feel, then that's unfortunate. My comments about performance are elsewhere in the review.

     

    Anyway, thanks again for your patronage of CA and for the constructive criticism.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Hi Chris,

     

    I also have the Sennheiser HD600 headphones. I love them and have tried other headphones and I can see why Head-fi.org still ranks the HD650s tops and the HD600s 2nd. Did you try the Sennheiser HD600 headphones with the black and did the black drive the Sennheiser HD600 headphones sufficiently?

     

    Thank You,

     

    Jeff

    Hi Jeff - Good to see another reader enjoying oldies but goodies. The Sennheiser HD6xx series is fabulous. IN my experience the Red is required for the HD600 to reach all its potential.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Thanks for the review, Chris. I picked up a Dragonfly Red at Gig Harbor Audio on Friday. Works great with my iPhone and the USB Camera Adapter.

     

    I was very happy that the Dragonfly can be powered by the phone. I have a Meridian Explorer 2, and was disappointed that it can't be powered by a phone or an iPad. I told the shop owner he may sell a lot of these if the iPhone 7 really comes with no headphone jack. :)

    I'm with you. When the next iPhone comes out without a 3.5mm output, the DragonFlys are literally going to fly off the shelves.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I'm with you. When the next iPhone comes out without a 3.5mm output, the DragonFlys are literally going to fly off the shelves.

    Chris ... Surely thats only an "if" ... or at most an "if as expected".

     

    Until Apple actually show the iPhone 7 (or whatever its called) surely you know better than to report rumours (especially Apple rumours) as fact!

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chris ... Surely thats only an "if" ... or at most an "if as expected".

     

    Until Apple actually show the iPhone 7 (or whatever its called) surely you know better than to report rumours (especially Apple rumours) as fact!

    Life is an if, but on this one I am talking about it as a certainty because even Apple leaked the info way early on to get people used to the idea.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I'm with you. When the next iPhone comes out without a 3.5mm output, the DragonFlys are literally going to fly off the shelves.

     

    I don't know about "flying off the shelves" Chris.

     

    If they remove the analogue output, it'll be a pretty big step towards their MO which is *wireless* audio playback. Like the Macbook with USB C ports, Apple is about making things smaller, simpler and less tethered.

     

    I'm sure there'll be a bunch of folks buying "digital" wired headphones with basic built-in DAC. This move will also push sales of Bluetooth headphones.

     

    Carrying a USB Camera adaptor + Dragonfly IMO will still be inconvenient for most folks.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I certainly got the feeling that Apple is trying to get me used to the idea of wireless headphones when they gave me a free pair of Bluetooth earbuds with my new iPad.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I certainly got the feeling that Apple is trying to get me used to the idea of wireless headphones when they gave me a free pair of Bluetooth earbuds with my new iPad.

     

    Interesting New Media. How well do they work (reliable pairing, battery life) and do they sound OK?

     

    Hopefully a good CODEC can be used (like apt X at least) if that's the push.

     

    I was speaking to a guy working for a mobile start-up here in Beijing today. Looks like many are gearing up for development of digital headphones utilizing the Lightning connector. With the extra power available, stuff like active noise reduction designs already are in or close to production (I saw a design using ear buds, not the large closed designs like the Bose QuietComfort or Beats Studio). He also showed me a new apt-X Bluetooth headphone design an associate was working on...

     

    Looks like the next round of mobile audio headphones coming soon (for better or worse). If the wireless CODEC is good and battery life reasonable, could be nice, especially if they can incorporate a lossless encoding technique that's supported by the phone. Would suck to stream lossy AAC/MP3 to another level of lossy Bluetooth encoding!

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Would it be reasonable to expect the next iteration would be thunderbolt rather than USB. Isn't the PCIe bus (I understand thunderbolt to be PCIe) a "quieter" computer interface?

    Dunno...just a dummy.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Would it be reasonable to expect the next iteration would be thunderbolt rather than USB. Isn't the PCIe bus (I understand thunderbolt to be PCIe) a "quieter" computer interface?

    Dunno...just a dummy.

    I doubt there will ever be a thunderbolt version. The market for Thunderbolt is tiny. The PCIe bus is much higher speed and much noisier than USB or a PCI bus.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I doubt there will ever be a thunderbolt version. The market for Thunderbolt is tiny. The PCIe bus is much higher speed and much noisier than USB or a PCI bus.

    I'm out of my discipline talking about this stuff so could easily be way off base but I believe it was Superdad who said that PCEe was more discrete than current standards. apologies to Superdad if I am mistaken.

    As the data is first ported out through thunderbolt isn't it natively PCEi?

    Isn't USB gone in, say, five years....a legacy protocal that is outliving it's utility.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Thunderbolt will be gone long before USB. There are so many mobile devices that use micro and mini USB and peripheral devices that use USB that it isn't going anywhere soon.

     

    Thunderbolt may may have a technical advantage but that doesn't mean much.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Thunderbolt will be gone long before USB. There are so many mobile devices that use micro and mini USB and peripheral devices that use USB that it isn't going anywhere soon.

     

    Thunderbolt may may have a technical advantage but that doesn't mean much.

    Chris, best.

    But your reply tells me....is this, forgive my age, a BetaMax/VHS argument....this lessor technology is still resident despite the superiority of another format.

    Is PCIe a less noisy format?

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chris, best.

    But your reply tells me....is this, forgive my age, a BetaMax/VHS argument....this lessor technology is still resident despite the superiority of another format.

    Is PCIe a less noisy format?

    Hi @wdw The VHS thing is what I was thinking about when I wrote that but had to run before I could write more. Thunderbolt could very well be a better technology and interface than the USB protocol, but it may not matter in the end. With respect to audio I've been told thunderbolt is electrically extremely noisy due to its high speed. I've been told the same thing about PCIe as opposed to PCI. I can't absolutely confirm this by running tests and conducting a longitudinal study, but I've anecdotally confirmed it with my ears as have others I respect.

     

    P.S. I used to think a lightning version of the DragonFly would be great, but I'm not so sure anymore, for various reasons.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chris, Thanks very much for the lengthy reply--as the saying goes you exceeded my expectations. Speaking of sayings, I like to say that if I only talk with people who agree with me, I'll never learn anything new, so it's fine if we don't see eye-to-eye on everything. I also like to say that when I am trying to be persuasive, I should ask myself whether the comment I just made can apply equally well to all the alternatives. Since you asked for clarification on one point, it seems to me that any audio product that improves on the original can claim that it improves our enjoyment of music relative to the original. That doesn't mean it's a product worth buying. If your statement has any meaning, it has to be relative to available alternatives not to the predecessor version. The available alternative doesn't have to be an on-premise $100,000 system (which I don't have lol). For what it's worth, I had no objection to the topic of the review itself, or to your enthusiasm for a solution to your issues to listening to music on the go--I travel a lot too and have come up with my own compromises; my comments were limited to what I saw as word choice that undermined at least the appearance of objectivity. --Tom

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Well, Chris, your words have (not for the first time) influenced my spending.

     

    And I'm real happy about it.

     

    Got the red DragonFly, added the Apple adapter, and along with the iPhone 6 and Oppo PM-3 headphones already here, I now have the best portable music setup I've ever owned...going back to the first iPods Apple shipped out to early adopters like me in October 2001.

     

    I don't need it much, mainly just when I take the train into the City, but it's super elegant.

     

    Dave, who is looking forward to the next or subsequent iteration of the iPhone that should have 256GB storage

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I realize that my car performs analog to digital conversion for DSP upon receiving the analog signal, but I have to get the analog signal out of my iPhone anyway and I prefer to do that the best way possible.

     

     

    Chris would you (or anyone else here) please explain this to me. Does this mean that even though you sent an analog audio signal to the head unit in your car the head unit STILL PERFORMS some sort of D/A function? If true i assume that the same would be true for home AVR units also? In other words IF you use an external DAC PRIOR TO an AVR (feeding the AVR an analog signal via traditional RCA type cables from the DAC - the internal DAC of the AVR will still ultimately perform the the DAC function? You mention DSP - why would that come into play IF the input signal is already an analog signal? I did try to read the "beginner's guide" to DSP but it did not help me with my understanding of why an analog signal cannot be passed through the amp circuitry out to the speakers without having to be "processed" by a DSP.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chris, Thanks very much for the lengthy reply--as the saying goes you exceeded my expectations. Speaking of sayings, I like to say that if I only talk with people who agree with me, I'll never learn anything new, so it's fine if we don't see eye-to-eye on everything. I also like to say that when I am trying to be persuasive, I should ask myself whether the comment I just made can apply equally well to all the alternatives. Since you asked for clarification on one point, it seems to me that any audio product that improves on the original can claim that it improves our enjoyment of music relative to the original. That doesn't mean it's a product worth buying. If your statement has any meaning, it has to be relative to available alternatives not to the predecessor version. The available alternative doesn't have to be an on-premise $100,000 system (which I don't have lol). For what it's worth, I had no objection to the topic of the review itself, or to your enthusiasm for a solution to your issues to listening to music on the go--I travel a lot too and have come up with my own compromises; my comments were limited to what I saw as word choice that undermined at least the appearance of objectivity. --Tom

     

    I'm new to this forum and recently bought the DF Red. I'm also new to the whole audiophile field. The Red is also new so the audio scrapping sound while watching a video last night may go away, I'll give it time to break in.

     

    I appreciate tomf's comments and his reply. Yes different opinions are important as is the flexibility to hear others opinions. What I also liked about tomf's reply was the point about the "sound compared to what". This is why I'm reading this blog. Frankly I'm not interested in hype. I don't mind Chris's comments bc those are his opinions, c'est le vie.

     

    So far most of what I've read about this whole audiophile stuff, e.g. Berkeley Audio Lab, is way past my purchasing power and frankly with all the shit that's going on in the world I don't think major money should be spent on this anyway. But that's just my .02$. I know, should be posted elsewhere.

     

    What I'm interested in is a audio hardware value sheet. E.g. Newbies should do steps 1-5 first. That sort of thing. Basics matter.

    So I've read most of Riden's iHi-Fi ebook and found it useful and informative. I use the Herbie's Audio Lab isolation feet under my dated, 2007 HK Soundstick 2 speakers.

     

    I'm also interested in a sound system that plays high res audio and TV audio out of one system, iMac, for less than $1000US. Is that the holy grail? When I chatted with Sonos they told me their sound bar, $700, was for TV audio. So that was a block.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Original article: "I also use this same adapter for playback in my car with the DragonFly / iPhone combination. My car has an analog input that enables me to send analog audio from the DragonFly to the head unit. I realize that my car performs analog to digital conversion for DSP upon receiving the analog signal, but I have to get the analog signal out of my iPhone anyway and I prefer to do that the best way possible. I then run a lightning cable from one of my car's power ports (cigarette lighter for those of you still hanging on to the past) to the input of the adapter. This powers my iPhone the entire road trip."

    I'd like to learn more about this car stereo. I'd like to do the same thing buying an aftermarket stereo. Suggestions? TIA

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Using the Dragonfly Red as an audio input?

    What could possibly go wrong if:

    I stuck the 1/4 inch male plug of a Y cable into the headphone jack of the Dragonfly then

    stuck the 2 male RCA plugs (at the other end of the Y cable) into one of the Aux inputs in the back of my integrated amp?

    Bonus question: what if I stuck the 2 male RCA plugs into the phono input?

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Guest
    This is now closed for further comments




×
×
  • Create New...