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    The Computer Audiophile

    The Importance of Surround and Height Speakers for Atmos Music

     


    Installing an immersive audio system for Atmos music can certainly be done on the cheap, but members of the Audiophile Style community are usually willing to spend a bit more to get better sound quality, as long as it makes sense. When it comes to Atmos music, finding what makes sense is the hard part. One of my goals with my Atmos music system, is to educate people and give them information they can use to decide for themselves. 

     

    I absolutely think every speaker in my 7.1.4 system matters immensely. I'd previously thought about installing speakers much less capable than the Wilson Audio Alidas, at least for height channels, but I'm thrilled I elected to go with my gut on this one, and install the best speakers I could for all the surround and height channels. Members of this community can take my word for it, or listen to excerpts below, that provide examples of why I think every surround and height channel is critical for Atmos music. 

     


    Key Questions

     

    As audiophiles think about Atmos music, trying to create a hierarchy of component importance, and figure out what really matters to us, a couple questions seem to be the most critical. First, does it makes sense to install high end speakers for surround channels? Second, are the height channels really important or even used very much? 

     

    The answer everyone wants to hear is, of course one can use inexpensive "acoustic wallpaper" for surrounds, throw a few Monoprice satellites up on the ceiling, and call it a day. Unfortunately, the laws of physics still apply to even the most nonconformist of audiophiles. Speaker design, drivers, enclosures and product support, all matter. To show people that this all matters, at least to me and likely to most audiophiles, I've created some videos. The videos are simple illustrations, that both show visually and audibly, the importance (or lack there of for some people), of surround and height channels in an Atmos music system. 

     

    In an unscientific fashion, I setup my iPhone 12 Pro to record video of my Merging technologies Anubis Premium, while recording the sounds from my 7.1.4 Atmos music system. To see how the system performs objectively and subjectively, here's a detailed article (link). Both the iPhone and Anubis were on a table immediately next to my listening chair. The iPhone 12 Pro's internal microphone was used because this exercise isn't about absolutely fidelity. The only way to really experience this system's potential is to sit in the chair and press play. 

     

    The video of my Merging Anubis is nice because it displays the music in each channel, relative to the other channels. What I mean by this is, if I only showed the audio in surround and height channels, but not in the main or center channel, it could be very misleading. If the surround and height channel audio is present, but down by 50 dB from the main speakers, it's far less critical than if it's around the same volume level. 

     

    My Merging Anubis screen displays both a CAPS 20 (Windows 11 PC) and MacBook Pro as sources. Under the Monitors section, my Atmos system is listed as the output. The MacBook is highlighted because that's the source I used for playback. In very small letters, above the word MacBook, one can see L R C LFE Sl Sr Ls Rs Tl Tr Trl Trr for the 12 channels in my Atmos music system. Above each letter(s) is the musical content being sent from the MacBook to the Anubis. Above the corresponding letters over the Atmos output on the right, is the same musical content, but at a lower volume because I like to save my ears and turn the volume down a bit. 

     

    Speaking of volume, -15 dB is a pretty "normal" level in my system, I often listen low and higher, depending n the content. I selected this level as a happy medium.

     

    Last, I could've spent much less time by just extracting the audio from the surround and height channels, and posting them as WAV files, but that would've provide the entire picture. Or at least, not the picture I believe will help people on their way to Atmos music or not. 

     

    Technical note: The videos below were created by combining two separate video and audio captures. This is because convolution filters cause the Anubis to display the audio correctly, but with dB subtracted here and there. The audio captured when using the convolution filter is correct, as it's what I hear at the listening position, but the Anubis display isn't accurate because it doesn't display what's heard in this case. So, I captured the Anubis video without using convolution, then added the audio with convolution, to show what it looks and sounds like accurately. The convolution filter enables the listener to hear the album as it was intended by the "artist" which is what is shown on the display when you see it without the filter. 

     

    Perhaps an example is helpful: If the front channels are reduced by 25 dB (example only) in a convolution filter, they will appear 25 dB down on the Anubis display. However, they would be reduced by 25 dB only to correct for an issue. Once corrected by 25 dB, the audio would sound just like the actual album because without the filter, there'd be a 25 dB boost caused by at the room, that wasn't in the album.

     

    Sounds convoluted I know, but this is how it works. I can explain more in the comments if needed. 

     

     

    Let The Show Begin

     

    Here we go with the first portion of a track. I only recorded partial tracks because that's all that's really necessary to show what I'm talking about and I like to stay within the bounds of copyright law, whatever that means.

     

    Elton John - Rocket Man (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    Here is the first couple minutes of the track that has everyone in the music business talking. However, I muted the front Left, Center, and Right channels for this recording. What's on the video is only the surround, LFE, and height channels. Even I was surprised to hear all the content that's in the surrounds and heights, in the first minute of the track. At about 58 seconds into the track, the mix turns legendary. Side and rear channels are used even more, to great effect. Have a look and listen. Remember, this is only the surround, height, and LFE channels in the audio recording. Nothing from the front left, right, or center. 

     

     

     

     

    Aretha Franklin - Amazing Grace (Live 1972) (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    This is a fantastic album, recorded live at the New Temple Missionary Baptist Church, Los Angeles 01/13/1972. With the front left, center, and right channels muted, one can really hear the audience and Aretha's voice as it was reverberating around the church. One important item here is how close in volume many of the channels are, according to the Anubis display. The center (muted) and top left and top right are definitely used in this mix, more than many of the other speakers. This is a fantastic track that I wish everyone could hear in its entirety. 

     

     

     

     

    Beatles - Come Together (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    I know many people have never heard this track. Only kidding. Giles Martin mixed this one really well, using all the channels. The front right, center, and left are more present in much of the mix, but the surround and heights are absolutely critical. Have a listen to what's in the surround, height, and LFE channels only. It isn't just a little reverb. 

     

     

     

     

    Billie Eilish - Bad Guy (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    Here's a pop song that I really like. The Atmos mix uses all the channels, while focusing mostly on the front right and left (as seen on the Anubis display). I'd say much of the audio in the surrounds and heights is fill-in, that ads to the immersive presentation. 

     

     

     

     

    Fleetwood Mac - Gold Dust Woman (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    Another classic we've all heard a million times. I never get sick of this track. While Stevie's vocal is mainly in the front channels (muted), she can be heard in the other channels. Other audio is much more apparent in the surrounds, especially at 1:20 into the video when Christine McVie's vocals are in the height channels. This really solidifies the importance of good height channels. 

     

     

     

     

    Yello - Waba Daba (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    This is what I consider a demonstration track. The music isn't my favorite, but it demonstrates an artist using Atmos to its full studio effect. Every channel is used as a primary speaker and for reverb. Look at the levels on the Anubis display and the amount of content in all the channels.

     

     

     

     

    Los Angeles Philharmonic - Night on Bald Mountain (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    I was surprised by the amount of information in the surround and height channels on this track. I thought I'd only hear a little reverb from Disney Hall, making the sound spacious, but not difficult for any speaker to reproduce. I was clearly wrong. The video shows both the level and amount of music coming from all the channels. Everything matters here. 

     

     

     

     

    Porcupine Tree - Harridan (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    I just became aware of Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson in the last couple months. What a great prog band! This album was mixed by Steven Wilson, who is one of the premiere Atmos mixing engineers in the business. Listening to the video below, it sounds like the entire song is being recorded, but keep in mind the front left, center, and right channels are on mute! This a lot of information in all the channels. The front right and left are certainly louder than the surrounds and heights, but listening to this complete track, it's easy to hear everything going on in all speakers.  

     

     

     

     

    Trondheim Solistene - Frank Bridge Variations: 1. Introduction and Theme (Surround and Height Channels Only)

     

    Nobody is doing it like Morten Lindberg. I mean NOBODY. Morten's Atmos mixes are second to none and set the bar that I wish everyone tried to exceed. This track was recorded nearly in the round and every channel is used as it should be. If one is a fan of this music, surround and height channels are equally as critical as the front array. If I could afford to put Wilson Alexia speakers around my room and on the ceiling I would. 

     

    Note: I wasn't a fan of 2L recordings prior to installing an Atmos system. Now, I can't live without them. I actually understand what Morten is doing now and totally love it. This isn't music created for demonstration at a HiFi show, this is fantastic music that sounds amazing. Squeezing this music into two channels is a travesty :~)

     

     

     

     

     

    The following track snippets are recordings of only the four height channels in my system. All other channels, including the LFE, are muted. 

     

    Trondheim Solistene - Frank Bridge Variations: 5. Aria Italiana (Height Channels Only)

     

    Another track from the same album of Morten Linberg's. Listen to all the musical content in the height channels only. This is insanity, in the best way.

     

     

     

     

    George Harrison - I'd Have You Anytime (Height Channels Only)

     

    Here are only the height channels on this track from George Harrison. This is definitely a lot of musical content, but it's a a few dB down from the main and side channels. Thus, not as present in the mix, but it's still definitely audible. 

     

     

     

     

    Triple Concerto - Concerto for Piano, Violin, Violoncello and Orchestra in C major “Triple Concerto”, op. 56: 1. Allegro (Height Channels Only)

     

    Here are the height channels only for a classical piece featuring Yo-Yo Ma, Anne-Sophie Mutter, and Daniel Barenboim. I used this piece to demonstrate the standard Deutsche Grammophon Atmos sound. Great use of all the channels. The height channels really raise the front soundstage like no two channel recording can. Notice the four height channels at the end, listed above the word MacBook. The level is higher than the surround channels, showing the importance of this height content and audibility. 

     

     

     

     

    Moby - Porcelain (Acoustic Version) (Height Channels Only)

     

    This is my favorite track on Moby's Reprise album. Please ignore the motorcycle that drove by my house at the beginning of the recording. Zeroing in on only the height channels, one can hear the acoustic guitar very well, and see it's at the same volume as the front right (muted) channel. His vocals are barely audible with only the heights enabled. As the violin and piano come in, the importance of the heights can be heard. 

     

     

     

     

    John Williams / Berlin Philharmonic - Imperial March (Height Channels Only)

     

    I selected this track as it's one of the most well known pieces ever written, it's the Berliner Philharmoniker, and it's John Williams. What more could we ask for? Anyway, this recording is only the four height channels! It's hard to believe this much musical information is in the heigh channels, and they are at a level above the main and surround channels! 
     

     

     

     

     

    A Different Visual

     

    John Williams / Berlin Philharmonic - Imperial March (Height channel audio with all channels in visual)

     

    This is the same John Williams Imperial March track as above, but one can see the usage of channels in a different way. Even though the audio is only the height channels, the video capture is all channels. The Merging Anubis web interface shows channel usage by highlighting the channels in use and thickening the highlight as more information is sent to those channels. One can see excellent use of all the Atmos space in this recording.
     

     

     

     

     

    Final Note About Speakers

     

    When I first installed the Wilson Alidas on the ceiling, I had second thoughts about using the fixed ceiling mount as opposed to the standard wall mount. The wall mount has adjustability that would've enabled me to aim the drivers directly at the listening position. However, after hemming and hawing and researching, I talked to Mitch Barnett about remeasuring my room with the speakers aimed directly at the listening position. Mitch assured me that the existing measurements were textbook and that I'd likely gain nothing because of how the speakers were designed. Based on the objective data and my subjective listening experience, I agree with Mitch 100%. It's my audiophile nervosa that kicked in and made me think the speakers needed an adjustment. 

     

    With respect to the center channel, I dreamt about using a full size speaker in this position. However, Wilson's Peter McGrath advised me not to do that because most of the music I listen to is two channel, and a large speaker in the middle would ruin the imaging between the front left and right speakers. I'm happy I brought this up with Peter for two reasons, 1) I'm getting better sound for my two channel because of this advice, and 2) I couldn't afford another Alexia in my system!

     


    Conclusion

     

    Based on my research, and experience, I believe the surround and height channels are much more important for music than they are for movies. Everyone can watch and listen to the examples above, and decide for themselves if the musical content in the surround and height channels is important enough for them. That's really the crux of this article. Providing information to members of the community. I can blather on about how important the surround and height channels are, but hearing it for oneself is experience that's second to none. 


     




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    any chance you can start adding links to the files/discs you are talking about?

     

    I eventually found "Trondheim Solistene - Frank Bridge Variations" but it took a bit of digging since you didn't say what album it is on.  I'm sure 2L wouldn't mind you posting a link to it on their shop website

     

    still looking for Atmos version of  "Tripple Concerto - Concerto for Piano, Violin, Violoncello and Orchestra in C major “Triple Concerto”, op. 56: 1. Allegro" ... slowed me down a bit with triple spelled incorrectly but past that there are so many recordings of this it is taking a while to find the one. Added Atmos to the search didn't help... still looking  😉

     

    thanks

     

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    31 minutes ago, bbosler said:

    any chance you can start adding links to the files/discs you are talking about?

     

    I eventually found "Trondheim Solistene - Frank Bridge Variations" but it took a bit of digging since you didn't say what album it is on.  I'm sure 2L wouldn't mind you posting a link to it on their shop website

     

    still looking for Atmos version of  "Tripple Concerto - Concerto for Piano, Violin, Violoncello and Orchestra in C major “Triple Concerto”, op. 56: 1. Allegro" ... slowed me down a bit with triple spelled incorrectly but past that there are so many recordings of this it is taking a while to find the one. Added Atmos to the search didn't help... still looking  😉

     

    thanks

     

    Done. 

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    Thanks a lot

     

    BTW I dove in and found  all of these are on Apple Music in Atmos except the 2L and the LA Philharmonic selection. They do have the  latter but not in Atmos. Looks like I'm going to order some 2L discs 

     

     

    it is a Golden Age for immersive streaming  😀

     

     

     

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    Thanks, Chris.  The Amazing Grace piece is especially helpful in understanding how immersive sound can create the illusion of being there

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    The 2L recording listed above  is available on Tidal along with others from their catalog

    Not Atmos but at least you can check them out before you take the $$ plunge for the files or discs. 

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    5 minutes ago, bbosler said:

    The 2L recording listed above  is available on Tidal along with others from their catalog

    Not Atmos but at least you can check them out before you take the $$ plunge for the files or discs. 

    I see them in Apple Music, Qobuz, and Amazon Music as well. 

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    I just KNEW that we are missing a lot of data from recordings only listening to 2-channel!

     

     

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    2 minutes ago, bobfa said:

    I just KNEW that we are missing a lot of data from recordings only listening to 2-channel!

     

     

     

    Yes, squashing all that information into two channels is beyond difficult. It's really amazing what can be heard in the other channels. If I didn't tell people, they may believe the front left, right, and center speakers were being recorded. 

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    Thanks Chris for that fine article on the importance of height info in Atmos. I totally agree! Even with my much simpler Wifi-based system (Sonos Beam soundbar and Dynaco surrounds powered by a Sonos Amp) the immersive effect of the vertical info is quite astounding when compared for example with stereo or 5.1. When I stand up from the couch I’m still in the sound bubble. Not so with other formats, where I feel the sound stays below me…

     

    I could stream most of your examples from Amazon Music (where they also tag each Atmos title from an album, so no bad surprise) and I agree Rocket Man is the most immersive mix I ever heard! Sound coming from everywhere, even the ceiling where I have no speaker…My setup with back speakers facing front and angled at about 30 degrees surely help for simulating the height channel.

     

    Of course, contrary to you, I don’t know how the Sonos App distributes the Atmos mix using 5+2 channels, but it’s extremely effective. 

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    Thank you for the great postings on immersive listening.  I also have a predominantly Wilson Audio speaker system (Alexx V for L/R and Watch for surrounds and center) and would appreciate learning the methodology you use for ripping DVD audio in either AURO 3D or Dolby Atmos.  I would also be interested in your thoughts on using JRiver and a Trinnov for streaming the digital rips from a NAS.  Thanks so much,

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    10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    Yes, squashing all that information into two channels is beyond difficult. It's really amazing what can be heard in the other channels. If I didn't tell people, they may believe the front left, right, and center speakers were being recorded. 

    I have been playing with the spacial audio from Apple Music on my AirPods Max.  IT is fun!  I have the Tigerfox 360 wall system here that is very fascinating but it is a one person show.

     

    There has to be something in-between that is "more normal?"

     

     

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    16 minutes ago, bobfa said:

    I have been playing with the spacial audio from Apple Music on my AirPods Max.  IT is fun!  I have the Tigerfox 360 wall system here that is very fascinating but it is a one person show.

     

    There has to be something in-between that is "more normal?"

     

     

    Oh yes :~)

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    3 hours ago, Wine Doctor said:

    Thank you for the great postings on immersive listening.  I also have a predominantly Wilson Audio speaker system (Alexx V for L/R and Watch for surrounds and center) and would appreciate learning the methodology you use for ripping DVD audio in either AURO 3D or Dolby Atmos.  I would also be interested in your thoughts on using JRiver and a Trinnov for streaming the digital rips from a NAS.  Thanks so much,

    Hi @Wine Doctor thanks for the kind words. Happy to hear you also have a Wilson based system. 

     

    The lossless Atmos or Auro 3D content is ripped from Blu-ray Disc or downloaded from one of these sites (link). Ripping it and preparing the files should really be another article as there are some technical details and screenshots that make it easier. I use MakeMKV to extract the files from Blu-ray. Then I use either Music Media Helper or MKVCleaver to extract the audio. Then I use the Dolby Reference Player to decode the Atmos. 

     

    If you have a Trinnov, the easiest way is to use an NVIDIA Shield and play the MKV files from the ripped Blu-ray or download that way. JRiver can struggle to output the MKV files via bit streaming. I know JRiver is working on a solution to this, but I'm unsure if it has been resolved. If this is resolved, JRiver would be a great solution for bit streaming to a Trinnov over HDMI. Trinnov processors are the best you can get.

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    Apple sent me an offer for two months for the price of one, so I re-upped for the spatial audio.  I'm going to try out all these above.  It's a great opportunity to test drive before committing to a purchase on disc.  Thanks Chris! Really been enjoying this project.  I was already on board with 5.1, but the Atmos mixes definitely do bring more.  I bought the Moving Pictures super deluxe for the Atmos mix.  Gave all the effluvia away to a friend who was ecstatic for the Red Barchetta model and picture book.  I kept the blu-ray and the vinyl.  :)  I look forward to a lot more posts with recomended recordings in Atmos!

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    4 minutes ago, scintilla said:

    Apple sent me an offer for two months for the price of one, so I re-upped form the spatial audio.  I'm going to try out all these above.  It's a great opportunity to test drive before comitting to a purchase on disc.  Thanks Chris! Really been enjoying this project.  I was already on board with 5.1, but the Atmos mixes definitely do bring more.  I bought the Moving Pictures super deluxe for the Atmos mix.  Gave all the effluvia away to a friend who was ecstatic for the Red Barchetta model and picture book.  I kept the blu-ray and the vinyl.  :)  I look forward to a lot more posts with recomended recordings in Atmos!

    I'm with you 100% Apple Music is great for the Atmos, at least as a sampling before purchasing a Blu-ray. 

     

    I love the Moving Pictures Blu-ray Atmos version. Fantastic!

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    1 minute ago, Jedburgh said:

    One of my favorits is Kraftwerk 3D, I love the music and the Atmos mix is done extremely well also making use of height channels, given the inspiration here I muted everything but heights, quite funny and interesting! Also listened to Bohemian Rhapsody and The End from Abbey Road - amazing…I agree that Rocket Man is great also…

    Must say though that I also like the stereo versions, the precision and imaging on good 2 channel is amazing as well…

    I use a Trinnov 32 outputting to my Meridian DSP’s via a Meridian 271 - digital all the way to the speakers dacs! When using the optimizer correctly the immersive experience is way beyond exceptional…

    Fantastic!

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    On 8/15/2022 at 3:55 PM, Jedburgh said:

    One of my favorits is Kraftwerk 3D, I love the music and the Atmos mix is done extremely well a

     

     I have the earlier "Minimum-Maximum" which is 2 DVDs with a DTS 5.1 surround mix. I listen upmixed to Auro3D. It has video too which is hard to describe but a mix of video and  computer generated graphics which I believe is what they do at their live shows. At one point they were doing them in 3D with glasses so I assume that is where the "3D" comes from in your set?

     

    I don't suppose you have tried the video with 3D Blu-Ray ?? I'm curious but the 3D glasses are over $100 each for my projector so not sure I'm quite that curious

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    On 8/23/2022 at 5:00 PM, bbosler said:

     

     I have the earlier "Minimum-Maximum" which is 2 DVDs with a DTS 5.1 surround mix. I listen upmixed to Auro3D. It has video too which is hard to describe but a mix of video and  computer generated graphics which I believe is what they do at their live shows. At one point they were doing them in 3D with glasses so I assume that is where the "3D" comes from in your set?

     

    I don't suppose you have tried the video with 3D Blu-Ray ?? I'm curious but the 3D glasses are over $100 each for my projector so not sure I'm quite that curious

     

    There is video on the 3D blu-ray I have, but I don’t think its 3D - I would not be able to see anyway, don’t have the gear for that! I saw the show live some years back, the video was 3D and when you entered you got 3D glasses, quite an experience. 

    I also have Minimum - Maximum - but its the SACD version - great sound but no video…

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    I have only just realised how important full range large speakers are for surround and centre speakers when listening to multichannel music. 
    I was lucky to acquire some pro stage foldback speakers, after reading the specs and realising my avr can easily drive them I thought I would give them a try so now I have permanently incorporated them into my room.

    Now I am hearing so much more information I need to go through my whole collection again.

    7182E8CE-58C5-41E0-AC7F-FA1370AF348B.thumb.jpeg.1a04b928b48e5994bf580063a6767d6c.jpegA5DD5E38-0BE0-4C27-924D-40E910099424.thumb.jpeg.2b6c9e7c616ad629a98dcbd733af1bc6.jpeg47227FD9-D5EC-4339-9A60-7C60487A3C17.thumb.jpeg.2cb83424a5fe9c11375b1796ed808b94.jpeg

     

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    On 8/28/2022 at 2:52 AM, bretho72 said:

    I was lucky to acquire some pro stage foldback speakers,

     

    It is a shame more audiophiles aren't aware of the great performance and value you get with pro audio gear. I use Genelec subs and they are superb. I would be using their powered monitors all around if I had to start over. 

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    15 minutes ago, botrytis said:

    Oh boy. That’s not a rebuttal, it’s an opinion based on incorrect assumptions, lack of experience, and factual errors. 
     

    Wow. 

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