High Resolution Blu-ray The Easy Way

I agree with what you are saying. I don't want things dumbed down either! But this would include adding into any blu ray audio releases annoying player restrictions/lack of mShuttle/video content that wasn't wanted etc etc<br />

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Some how I can't see ALL the labels getting this right and into the one universal format. Without some signed agreement and standards, it will end up a dogs breakfast IMHO<br />

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I dont think iTunes is the answer for hirez either. What I was pointing out is at least it is an ultra convenient universal format.<br />

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I think sites like HD Tracks and Linn Records are the answer. If there are labels like Bravura out there who want to rerelease hi REZ music, they would be far better off getting their lawyers to approach distribution channels like these sites and sorting out any issues there, than wasting time developing a new blu ray format IMHO...That's what labels like Deutsche Grammophon are clearing doing with HD tracks. Trialling a few releases and seeing how it is going. Bravura would be better off doing something like this. Even starting up their own site, if they have to.<br />

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Cheers<br />

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Wap<br />

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Personally am still doubtful that high-rez downloads are the answer. Anyhow, this is an interesting thread, although it shows how difficult life still is if one is an audiophile and music lover wanting to listen to more than half a dozen music labels in high-resolution. <br />

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The question raised by sq225917's earlier in this thread and picked up again by wap raises the off-topic issue whether a new standard hard copy format would solve a lot of our current problems and struggles.<br />

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Ever heard of the German expression "elephant in einem porzellanladen"? elephants in a china shop .. I just realised it's all a matter of perspective: until now I thought the elephants lacking space and unable to move are just people like me, still listening to mostly 1950s, 60s and 70s music on vinyl but unable to catch up with 21st century digital material. But I put myself to the other side now, looking at my LP collection and observing how squeezed computer audiophiles still are, considering six hours for a download, adding extra electronic toys between usb and hdmi outputs and s/pdif inputs, filling harddisks with 24/192 files.<br />

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In the end who's more in the china cage - computer audiophiles or vinyl lovers? Please don't get me wrong, this is not meant to be negative or polemic, just trying to put things into perspective and adding food for thought..

it is NOT another format, or another hard disc medium...it is simply a feature set added to BluRay, kinda like directors comments or special featurette add-ons are. It doesn't require a new player or rebuying the same music again. It simply requires an internet connection. (All this from the consumer side of things). If the producer side of things does't like it, well they don't have to do it. Eventually I'd think, like any other feature, the more it's asked for, the more it will be included.

I hear ya. I guess my point was more about popular music, rock and even most jazz. I am pretty excited by all the classical that is available in high res (I was just listening to Mozart Symphonies downloaded directly from the BSO as 24/96 aiff files). <br />

I am not sure I think Linn or HDtracks is going to be getting their hands on 24/96 and above Led Zeppelin, or Radiohead, or Tool, or Shelby Lynne. I suspect the record companies/distributors do not want to either go to the bother, or to release at all, titles like this to a small third party for distribution. These companies still seem wedded to physical formats, so I am just hoping and praying that they might embrace BRD with mShuttle as way to provide a premium product (with attendent extra cost to the consumer and extra profit margin for them) container for high res music files (along with what they would see as value added video content). I am not saying that I endorse this approach as my preference, I am just saying that this approach would be preferable to not getting high res of popular music at all.

Do you have any idea of the market size of consumers like us who want 24/96 or higher?<br />

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Companies like HDtracks and Linn clearly have their infrastructures in place and their business models appear to be working.<br />

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Is there some way that Computer Audiophile could lead the way in making it clear to companies such as HD and Linn that there is a viable market out there?<br />

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Neil

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...the speed of dying Suns.<br />

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Locks only keep the honest people, honest.<br />

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There’ll always be those who can take that which was made so it could not or should not be taken readily. Always.<br />

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For personal use, and without generating any income from it, copying that which I own in one format to some other is an appropriate theology.<br />

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Some investors and major manufacturers have come up with how to use a current medium for their purposes. Those such as 2L or whomever wish to enable ripping and/or copying their BRD content, by further employing this Shuttle tech, are doing us a favor. That’s all. <br />

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True too it is another path for promotion too. AS files are quite easily traded, and I feel today, more so than are discs.<br />

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I offer to lend out my DVDs ro BR discs lately and often get the response, I’ll just stream it from Blockbuster, or Netflicks.<br />

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I can’t count how often I hear someone who isn’t even really computer savfvy, say, Oh, yeah, I just watched “TRUE GRIT” online last night!<br />

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Huh? It’s still at the theaters!<br />

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The deal here is not so much people are predisposed to download content rather than buy a hard copy, it’s that these people who so readily and repeatedly stream media into their homes, download files of video and music, are doing so purely for it’s substance.<br />

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Not for it’s Quality!!<br />

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These iTunes and wherever else downloaders of mp3, or aac, files are not like us in truth. Only the method we use is in common.<br />

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The iPod generation is not overly concerned with top flight quality products, when they seek to download them. They want quick… 2G, 3G, 4G… 20G.. 100N. Give it to me on my phone now!, sorts of folks.<br />

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They ain’t interested in excellence just extremely fast..<br />

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Take a few steps back from your PC… server… or BRD players. Some distance might gain for you a better perspective. I think we’re too impatient or too myopic with our views.<br />

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We as ‘cyber server audiofiles’, aren’t the target of the BRD manufacturers. The other 90 – 95% of the world is the target.<br />

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Get on board with that idea and decide if you are going to scrounge around and scour the net looking for Shuttle content BDs, or BRD ripping software and techniques that will glean for you the imbedded info off these disc and onto your server. Or if you will just accept a windfall when it comes our way.<br />

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When we, the least portion of the buying public are thrown such a bone, grab it and dig it. It’s not often. Even in the future it’s not going to be common for a very, very very, long time. <br />

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Why?<br />

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Thruput. Server speeds, transmission links. Storage spaces… and so on. That amounts to another investment of money and energy to provide as well, downloads of their content…. And to a quite small audience too.<br />

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It all may very well be headed that way, but that way is beyond the horizon right now. As was said in my day, “It’s otta sight!”… but in a poorer context.<br />

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I truly wish it wasn’t so. That everyone making and selling musical Disc, LPs, Blue Ray, etc, would allow us to gain said info from their master recordings online regularly.<br />

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As viable a means and method as we can argue here for the hows and whys of providing for us all cyber files of high res content, we’re so deeply in a minority as to be always overlooked. Forgotten. We don’t count. Well, not for much, in the eye’s of the BR disc makers. Certainly not with most of them.<br />

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We are not quite yet the appitamy of convention.<br />

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Add to that the notion that what content we do get is pitifully small given the actual available content out there already, it’s a frustrating affair if you ask me.<br />

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Think about it. Even those who say they are headed into our waters full force and will soon offer to us excellent high end high res fare, have set a IMHO, prohibitive price structure on their proposed products already!<br />

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$45 - $50 an album? Are you Kidding me?<br />

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Why so high? Because so few folks will buy it/them. <br />

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If however this venue of High Res files via cyber space, or simply for the high ear audiofiles were as prevalent as the Best Buy Blue Ray disc player and BR flick buyer were, these albums would be half that or less. Probably far less if the enterprise were truly aimed at providing a service more so than as a money making concern. Maybe in the normal range of CDs, $15 - $20.<br />

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But we ain’t the majority of the buying public. now or in the near future. If … when… or where ever … we can capture high res input for our servers, or as we cherry pick ourselves along the fat file highways, we should remind ourselves to be grateful for all small favors.<br />

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If the price seems to high, it’s because it is. There and then we all have the right to say, “Nope! That price is ridiculous. I’m not buying it!<br />

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Or to cave… and throw our money into the cyber landscape. So… be happy. Or get started formulating committees, and collecting names to be submitted to those entities responsible for collecting their means and forging their efforts into what they have chosen to do… so as to induce them to alter their business plan for us and add a link to access openly, that which they now print and press physically en masse, everyday..<br />

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If I were any of these BR disc makers, it would take some doing for anyone to convince me to open still another door and invest still further for such a minimal group of buyers. A lot of convincing indeed.<br />

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I do wish it were otherwise. That I could stream or download 24/96 or greater from sites as easily as I can get to a music store and browse their CDs.<br />

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Has anyone, any where, ever seen the numbers Apple has tied up in their iTunes music stores 256K file wharehouse? It’s gotta be way up there!!! Way up!!<br />

Why do we have 1080 p video? This is not my area of expertise, but apparently the answer is not beause of consumer demand, but because manufacturers felt they could sell 1080 p at a premium price, so they went forward with it, and convinced consumers they must have it.<br />

While I understand that the true audiophile market is a very small, niche, market (I have worked in the industry), I do not believe that there is no market for better sounding music distribution. There are a lot of young people who do listen to music seriously, usually via iPod or iPhone, but they do listen. Interestingly, I have many times demonstarted the effect of better in ear monitors to iPod users (not audiophiles) and every time they have been willing to go out and spend a couple hundred dollars on better IEMs. I am talking about kids here, a number of these same kids play vinyl (albeit on fairly modest systems) at home, they tell me: because CDs do not sound as good!<br />

I think the assumption that there is not a large market of people who would appreciate better than CD sound quality is flawed. The real problem is that these people do not know that better sound quality is even possible, many of them believe what their told: often that mp3 is better than CD because it comes from a high tech computer. If the industry took the same approach as with video, and convinced consumers that high res is better, and worth paying more for, I am confident a healthy market would develop for high res audio distribution.

barrows<br />

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Do we need a 1Tb iPhone or iTouch for that to become a reality?<br />

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i.e. does it need to be a mobile device before the masses take to it?<br />

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Neil.

MMM- the record labels took in <i>billions</i> in 2010, and there are folks who believe the actual financial picture for the labels is up - way up. <br />

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Take this link with a grain of salt, as the author probably has a bit of an agenda, but it is interesting, if light, reading. <br />

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-Paul<br />

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http://blog.tunecore.com/2010/10/music-purchases-and-net-revenue-for-artists-are-up-gross-revenue-for-labels-is-down.html<br />

1080p does make a very big difference in certain types of movies - namely one of my favorite genres, which is animation. The characters pop out of the screen and amazing - absolutely amazing - detail is revealed. A side by side with 720p shows the staggering amount of detail lost without 1080p. <br />

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Movies with a lot of CGI benefit as well. <br />

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Check out HoodWinked on Blu-ray, or Despeciable Me. Delightlful! <br />

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-Paul<br />

Or am I missing something Chris? My personal experience suggests there is more to the format than the sampling and bit rates, as the same music released on DVD-A then dts hd sounds much different. Obviously this method is magnatudes easier but I am wondering if one loses something that the decoder seems to add? just to be clear this is only for specific discs then not all blu rays? Thanks!

I am not suggesting that "the masses" need to be convinced they need high res audio, only that a significant market needs to be developed. I do not care much for video, and own a simple 720 p Bravia. My audio system resides in a different room altogether. As far as I understand, true 1080 p content can only be found on BRD, but I do not believe "the masses" all own 1080 p sets and BRD players-the ones that do, and that actually purchase BRD for watching, are the ones who care about quality in movies (or one should go to the theater).<br />

"The masses" do not need to be involved to make a big enough market for high res, but we do need to attract people beyond the niche audiophile market. I believe there is a huge untapped market of people who do care about audio quality-but this market is not "the masses". Every year at RMAF I meet people who are decidely not audiophiles (even many 20 somethings) who have found their way there out of curiousity. Most of them are blown away by even simple decent systems. I suspect that for every one of these non-audiophiles which come to RMAF there must be thousands of people who feel the same way about quality.

Hi Barrows<br />

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I thought we finally got 1080P or better video in the states because PAL video was so much beter res, and NTSC had been lagging behind the rest of the world for ages anyhow.<br />

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Europe and Asia have had high res TV for years before the States did.<br />

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Sure your thoughts are valid too as to personal experiences with first hand demonstrations of good and better. No doubt anyone would opt for the higher level preforming device if their hearing or vision were in tact.... would they then fervently subscribe to the media thereafter? Do each and everyone quickly reach into their pockets and pay for it?<br />

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Hardware, yes perhaps, to a point. Media too perhaps. Some.<br />

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But my argument loosely stated earlier, says, all things being considered, those opting for top flight media... and top tier gear... are now and going forward ONLY going to be a nitche market. <br />

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Jeeesss… as avid as I’ve been in collecting and amassing a just better than average rig, IMHO, I’ve no where near resided in or with the ultimate or even very high end audio offerings.<br />

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Obviously the niche will grow. Sure.<br />

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But mainstream we ain’t.<br />

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How quickly, how wide spread, will depend on the content coverage and distribution network (s) put into place by .... uh, those folks with the bigger big bucks who want to make more big bucks.<br />

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Believe me, I'd love nothing better than to browse the net for HD MUSIC and grab those albums and cuts which amuse me or that I'm passionate about by clicking here or there a few times.<br />

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But such widespread instances and choices within these venues and genres even, simply ain't gonna jump off for a good long while. <br />

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So the hurdles are obviously there. They amount to more than merely the technology, bandwidth, and distribution.<br />

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What good does it do to have every classical recording ever made if the largest audience for music is asking for Sting instead?<br />

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Ask some of these kids, adults even, who is Sam Cooke, Roy Orbison, or some others whose work is now being exploited and offered as high res downloads?<br />

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If you find an artist you like being offered in this manner... then there's issues with the actual album being served up! I can really like the artist... but not the particular work.<br />

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this too will slow things up... and why it's important to cover the genre considerably, rather than eclectically... which seems the current cases. Copyrights, artists creative properties costs, choices, etc., etc. <br />

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...and why I say it's gonna be a while... so when things come along and IF you or I like 'em, and can justify their costs... grab 'em up!<br />

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If I can get say, a BR disc of Black & White Night.... for less money than via a download... I will do that.<br />

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It is just basic economics at that point IMO.<br />

...and I agree with about all you say. Basically.<br />

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Whomever generated this mShuttle tech should be the tip of the spear here. Those folks need to be knocking on doors. Making those calls, and soliciting new business from these BR disc pressers.<br />

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Tactile too has its own attraction. Being able to hold a thing. Look at it. Admire it. Show it off. There’s that mind set as well.<br />

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New tech, methods, arrangements, as attractive as they can appear, all have one downside. Acceptance. <br />

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Widespread, general, without regard to demographics, acceptance. Normally, new tech takes a couple generations to be accommodated fluidily… across cultures… nations.. etc. that means about 40-50 years. Usually.<br />

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The past 30 argues those numbers pretty well though. From CDs in 1980, cell phones, DVDs, getting the industries to agree on Dolby as the basic audio stream to accompany video, HD VIDEO, a nationwide switch to digital video transmissions… which got it’s actual launch time rededicated for about 5 years, to HD audio downloads, and for Blue Ray, and now streaming media, and 3D Blue Ray content.<br />

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Digital media manufacturing has been very busy the last 3 decades…. And it’s still spotty with regard to any senseable proliferation of HD AUDIO AVAILABILITY.<br />

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It's gonna take a very big shot of convenience being proposed to the world wide BR disc making market for this high res downloading ‘Aldous Huxley’ world to be a formidable enterprise.<br />

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Say for starters EVERYONE MAKING BLUE RAY AUDIO discs should be implementing this mSHUTTLE Tech. Not merely some off the beaten path genre… now and then… sometimes or once in a while. Standardization. Which means heads getting together and agreeing.<br />

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It’s gonna take a lot of people agreeing on ONE thing or SOME OTHER. Then all can begin to skip happily along. Then there’ll be other gripes, and still more barriers.<br />

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I think it’s tantamount to the HD V. Blue Ray wars. Or the ideas behind HDMI. They all, the recording enterprises themselves, as Paul said a bit ago… are making money! Don’t rock the boat if it ain’t sinking! They’ve no reason to offer another method of collection… in their own minds… just yet. <br />

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If MShuttle tech gets wxhibited and demonstrated to them as a viable means for garnering more income… IOW, is profitable, they’ll jump on it just like a banty hen on a mole cricket!<br />

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I hope they do… soon.<br />

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Though as asked previously, just how many, where, when, who, and what is using this mShuttle tech and what are the visions of those who have rendered it for use?<br />

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I’n not seeing any of those answers being posted here.<br />

either I did not make myself clear, or you did not really read my post?<br />

My point is, that it is not only the audiophile market who will appreciate better sounding (recording quality, high res) music, but not that it needs to adopted by "the masses". Just like HD TV (and now HD is 720 p as broadcast) the industry convinced consumers that they needed it-those who take advatage of 1080 p is a smaller subset who actually purchase BRD to see the movie, and a true 1080 p set up. Still, this smaller subset is much larger than a niche market.<br />

Back to audio: my premise is that there are many more people that would appreciate what high res audio has to offer than the niche/audiophile market if they new it existed, and it was aggressively marketed at them (like 1080 p video is).<br />

There is a level of music lover out there, many times the number of audiophiles, who would pay more for better sounding music files-but I am not referring to the masses.

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Barrows... I said I agreed... and wished to expand on another aspect of this continuum, thereater.<br />

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In order to expand upon, and reign in new blood, it's gonna take a major move towards providing these new 'recruits’ choices, affordability and options, as well as the vaunted higher quality media. Regardless how it's delivered, albeit cyberspace is attractive, it has limits too.<br />

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My reflection on the Who's making these mshuttle discs, how many of them are there and what sorts, was another point... though I'd be grateful were it answered.<br />

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Though, as Paul inferred earlier as well, this thread is maybe just another agenda being promoted by the author... as a good many have gone before on these pages. Pointing a spotlight here and there at times for well... someones benefit. Maybe ours... usually though it seems to benefit the makers of the hardware or software more so than us.<br />

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This account likely will go as so many before it as a shooting star. Gaining much brilliance albeit, become quite shortlived… and eventually forgotten<br />

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Unless those behind the mShuttle design promote it avidly..<br />

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BTW… It would be nice to see more hardware accounted for here which curiously enough is seldom if ever even mentioned. <br />

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PS Audio for example has reputedly a ground breaking device that has seen no formal account of it’s Perfect Wave & Bridge arrangement on these pages to the best of my knowledge. <br />

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Bel Canto, another leader in digital engineering is as well almost completely ignored from any formal reviewed herein. They’re still making DACs I believe.<br />

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I don’t accurately recall the last time I saw one reviewed on CA though.<br />

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I near pleaded for an actual individual, and up to date account of the Lynx card here for a severely long time and had to post one myself. Gee.. even the reference gear isn’t given it’s time in the sun as to how it became the ref?<br />

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Yikes.<br />

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There is as well, Wavelenght Audio and Imperical Audio whose products see scant few pages yet are near founders in this comfuser based audio realm.<br />

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However, some of the companies which employ the tech developed by Wavelength get press here… like Ayre, and Bryston.<br />

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Reviews which are conspicuously absent of prominent gear makers equipment, of course, enables one to draw whatever deductions one wishes. <br />

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Sorry, my curiosity seems to get the better of me at times…. So I say aloud those things which remain unanswered.<br />

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I’m glad to know of this particular aside for capturing Blue Ray content. I do hope the ‘mShuttle’ deally takes off like a field afire…. And crosses many genres and disc producers tables, and the shelves of our local BR Disc sellers..Hopefully all will see it as a plus.<br />

what audiophiles want is quality. If these BRDs are certified to be 24/176.4 and higher source recordings we may be in business. If the audio files are just upsampled lower source recordings, then why bother.<br />

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The labels currently releasing high resolution (24/176.4 and higher) files on DVD data discs or digital downloads are known to most CA frequent readers. It does not matter how these labels deliver the files, in general, they stand on their reputation and expertise for delivering quality music that audiophiles expect. If they find the business model of BRD and mShuttle works better for them, then great. I am in favor of ensuring they can continue to deliver quality recordings at reasonable prices without DRM restrictions.<br />

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But I remain skeptical as the larger labels and dishonest labels jump on the BRD bandwagon. I have read enough users comments on BR movies on the Internet to know that while BR offers the potential of something better, often it does not deliver anything better than what we already have. And I am also not in favor of more complex players that have a very high failure rate. If you thought that CD and DVD transports have reliability problems, you ain’t seen nothing yet especially if you opt for anything less than the Oppo BDP.<br />

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Until the labels offer 24/192 multichannel or DSD128 or DXD audio files, I see little reason to change from the more common DVDs and digital downloads used now. The last thing I need is 24/48 or 24/96 on BR.<br />

Non resampled tracks, or albums?<br />

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I agree. But the music itself, the content, is as important as is the quality.<br />

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tons of top quality zither or conga music isn't going to reel me in. Not if it was 32 bit... 384k... <br />

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Fact is ... if it isn't being purchased now... how will making a great high res product out of it do it any better a deed?<br />

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I'm guessing new sellers of the hgiher res file types or downloads, will get scrutinized more often now... and should.<br />

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I suspect they'll be easy to be found out however as time moves along.<br />

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it sounds like we are on the same page here. I am excited about the high res I can get, whether by download, a DVD-A rip, or high res files distributed on DVD. In any case, while there is a lot of high res classical available, not so much for rock. I listen to both (and jazz and world, hardly any world music other than CD). <br />

I am just hoping that there will be some accepted format that will deliver high res versions of some of my favorite rock music.<br />

BTW, I believe Chris C. is working on a review of the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC and Network Bridge combo-this is a little bit of a moving target as PS Audio is still dialing in the Bridge software to perfection. Also their new audio management software is constantly changing.<br />

I believe Chris had reviewed bel canto in the past. In any case, it is unrealistic to expect any one reviewer to be able to review every possible DAC, computer interface, and peripheral product out there. Doing a good review takes a lot of time and effort-I would rather see chris review a few products well, than many products poorly.

My two cents worth from a business point of view:<br />

1. IMHO, it is a slippery road for downfall if Bravura releases its albums in Blu-ray with mShuttle and not the common DVD-ROM, and downloads via the Internet. Let me put it another way. Even if Bravura were to give me $10 for its first album with the condition that I must listen to it extensively, I would say no, thank you. Why? I need to buy the blu-ray hardware, the mShuttle and spend time in learning and ripping the audio track to iTunes before I am able to listen to tracks. Wanting me to pay $45 and go through the investment in hardware and time that are inapplicable to other albums/labels for years to come is a definite "no way" for me. <br />

2. IMHO, Bravura, as a start-up, should simply focus on what it knows and does best, namely, produce excellent sounding albums. Contract out the business issues to others. Follow the steps of Reference Recordings and other small labels. Give the albums to HDtrack and Linn, now that they have set up downloads for 24/192. For consumers who want physical DVD-ROMs, Bravura sells to them directly merely to fill in the gap. <br />

3. The new 2L album with mShuttle is not a good example to follow. I know of no other label as enterprising as 2L. Its marketing has no peer as its tracks are available for download in practically all popular music houses that I know of, including iTunes. Its physical discs are also available in Hong Kong, handled by NAXOS and are on racks in record shops. Its own site has various formats for downloading that suits all consumers. For Bravura to do the same will tie up its capital and efforts unnecessarily and doing it in half-baked way is worse than following item 2 above. According to the newsletter of 2L, it is selling more downloads than physical discs. For a start-up such as Bravura, IMHO, it should first follow the market in order to be sustainable. Linn already ceased production of CD players, seeing the trend of diminishing demand for physical discs.

no one can review them all.<br />

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Granted.<br />

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Perhaps invites to some other listners so they can share thier thoughts on comparable gear could help.<br />

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Comparaisons must be made in reviews to make for a firm footing or foundation in the process.

<i>"I need to buy the blu-ray hardware, the mShuttle and spend time in learning and ripping the audio track to iTunes before I am able to listen to tracks. "</i><br />

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francisleung - With all due respect, I'm willing to bet you've spent more time tweaking your listening chair, flipping vinyl, cleaning a stylus, etc... Ading tracks to iTunes from an mShuttle DVD is no different than adding them to iTunes from a download on your desktop as long as you have a Blu-ray drive. <br />

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If you love the music this is a small price to pay. If you don't love the music simply move on.

<i>"IMHO, Bravura, as a start-up, should simply focus on what it knows and does best, namely, produce excellent sounding albums. Contract out the business issues to others."</i><br />

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francisleung - Bill and the others at Bravura have been around the block more than a few times with giant record labels and tiny record labels. These guys know what they are doing. Your statements about what they should do are vast oversimplifications that presuppose they haven't thought of all this. Trust me Bill has been studying all of this for years.

Hi Chris. I'm sure Bill and others at Bravura have been around for years...<br />

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But don't forget the shear awesome power and reach of internet distribution.<br />

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The US might be a market for how many people..300,000 maybe? Even to get physical BR disc's out into THAT market (with all it's know efficiency and customer service) takes a small army of distribution channels/logistics, not to mention vast financial resources.<br />

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A label can potentially reach over 4 BILLION people instantly with the power of the internet.... and do away with ALL of this!<br />

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There is NO WAY the "old" distribution channels can match the huge productivity gain of the internet.<br />

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Over here. 10 thousand miles from the US, and 15 thousand from Scotland, I can browse an entire online catalogue from my music server, then purchase high def tracks and put them straight onto my player. Antime that suits ME. Not when a shop might want to open, or a postal van might want to drop the goods off...All without moving from my house. No contacting "resellers" to see if something is available. Then waiting another 2-3 weeks for a "discs" to be shipped...<br />

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Given the choice...what would you do? Remember we all don't have the luxury of living in London or New York Chris...<br />

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Let me put it a different way. By asking you one simple question. When you got the idea to start Computeraudiophile, did it cross your mind to use the old paper magazine format to get your ideas and media "published"? <br />

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The old model of music distribution by physical format is finished. It's history. Gone. The end. You know this. We all do.<br />

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There is no going back.....<br />

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Wap.<br />

Hi wap - I agree 100%. <br />

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