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    The Computer Audiophile

    The Next Track Immersive Music Episode

    Hey Guys - I was recently a guest on @kirkmc and @DougAdams The Next Track podcast, where we talked immersive music. I love being on Kirk's and Doug's show, these guys are such pros. They even edit out all of our nonsense chatting that nobody cares about, except us. I would say their show is all killer, no filler, but that would give me a little too much credit as a guest. 

     

    Here's the complete episode. Enjoy. 

     

     




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    2 minutes ago, ted_b said:

    Nice interview!  YES, we need an uncompressed Wilson-mastered American Beauty bluray ASAP.

    Absolutely!

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    Nice interview, Chris.  I noticed that all of your focus is on Dolby Atmos and did not mention AURO 3D.  My system has 5.1.6 speakers (the 5.1 speakers being Wilson Audio) and I use a Trinnov Altitude 16 as the source for immersive audio.  I have found that I prefer the sound from AURO 3D albums (particularly those released by Spirit of Turtle).  And since my Roon device supports AURO 3D, downloading and working with AURO 3D files is much easier than ripping or dealing with Dolby Atmos files.  Am I missing something?

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    13 minutes ago, Wine Doctor said:

    Nice interview, Chris.  I noticed that all of your focus is on Dolby Atmos and did not mention AURO 3D.  My system has 5.1.6 speakers (the 5.1 speakers being Wilson Audio) and I use a Trinnov Altitude 16 as the source for immersive audio.  I have found that I prefer the sound from AURO 3D albums (particularly those released by Spirit of Turtle).  And since my Roon device supports AURO 3D, downloading and working with AURO 3D files is much easier than ripping or dealing with Dolby Atmos files.  Am I missing something?

    You aren’t missing anything :~)

     

    Auro is great but the mass market has selected Atmos. Apple, Amazon, Tidal, and soon Qobuz all went with Atmos. Auro has serious financial issues that have pushed some of the tiny number of supporting labels away from it, to Atmos. I know Bert at Spirit of Turtle loves Auro as well, but I think it’s a dead format. Same with Sony 360. Just my take. 

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    Nice PODcast

    /RANT/

    However . . .
    Insanely well recorded 5.1 surround music has been around for many years, and yet Atmos is all we hear about.

    The jump from stereo to 5.1 is vastly more significant than the one from 5.1 to Atmos.

    Chris, I'm happy that you have (finally) found the holy grail, but it's a disservice to most members and the "public", if we let them think that it's Atmos or nothing.
    And honestly - most Atmos labeled tracks are really ambience enhanced stereo or 5.1 at this point.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm currently fussing over how to get my rig from 5.1 to Atmos, but that is 75% driven by the allure of content from streaming services and only 25% for the height channels.
    I was on my way a decade ago, but then realised how scarce recordings was (and remained until recent).

    Yes, I'll be likely be going "Immersive" (Auro 3D / Atmos / DTS X) , but I want most people to know what an insane transformation 5.1 is.
    That "Immersive" is already in most peoples homes and open for business!!!

    Please don't "HIGH-ENDify" this experience - help let the masses know!

    /END RANT/


    And yes, I'll want all my amazing 2L recordings in glorious Auro 3D (or Atmos - the discount version),
    but luckily I purchased the 2L Blurays containing all available formats. 

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    3 minutes ago, DigiPete said:

    Nice PODcast

    /RANT/

    However . . .
    Insanely well recorded 5.1 surround music has been around for many years, and yet Atmos is all we hear about.

    The jump from stereo to 5.1 is vastly more significant than the one from 5.1 to Atmos.

    Chris, I'm happy that you have (finally) found the holy grail, but it's a disservice to most members and the "public", if we let them think that it's Atmos or nothing.
    And honestly - most Atmos labeled tracks are really ambience enhanced stereo or 5.1 at this point.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm currently fussing over how to get my rig from 5.1 to Atmos, but that is 75% driven by the allure of content from streaming services and only 25% for the height channels.
    I was on my way a decade ago, but then realised how scarce recordings was (and remained until recent).

    Yes, I'll be likely be going "Immersive" (Auro 3D / Atmos / DTS X) , but I want most people to know what an insane transformation 5.1 is.
    That "Immersive" is already in most peoples homes and open for business!!!

    Please don't "HIGH-ENDify" this experience - help let the masses know!

    /END RANT/


    And yes, I'll want all my amazing 2L recordings in glorious Auro 3D (or Atmos - the discount version),
    but luckily I purchased the 2L Blurays containing all available formats. 

    For all intents and purposes 5.1 is dead if you want to talk about the masses. Atmos transforms from stereo to 5.1.2 to 7.1.4 etc... Height channels are just as important as the rear channels.

     

    I know some of the people that have been doing multichannel for many years get their feathers ruffled by me talking about immersive audio, not you specifically, but the world has moved on from multichannel and into Atmos. I have Elton John's Rocket Man in 5.1 and Atmos. Atmos is better to me because it uses 25% more speakers / the height channels. All the streaming services are doing Atmos. Yes, there is a tiny amount of Dolby Audio 5.1 and 4.0 content, but if we want to talk about the masses, that ain't it. 

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    1 minute ago, Kal Rubinson said:

    And you can get the decoder as a VST plugin!!

    But it's not supported and hasn't worked well for consumers at all. 

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    Given the company's financial situation and the current site to purchase anything, it's a tough road for an artist to pay for. 

     

    Screen Shot 2022-09-21 at 3.59.14 PM.png

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    24 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    For all intents and purposes 5.1 is dead if you want to talk about the masses.

    Here's the thing, though, I care only about the masses if their behavior contributes to what I want and so far......

     

    25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    I have Elton John's Rocket Man in 5.1 and Atmos. Atmos is better to me because it uses 25% more speakers / the height channels. All the streaming services are doing Atmos.

    ...........it has not.  A Micky Mouse upsampling of a old rocker holds no interest for me and the addition of more speakers, particularly height channels, has not yet added significantly to my enjoyment of the the music I listen to, so far.

     

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    4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    But it's not supported and hasn't worked well for consumers at all. 

    I agree that it has failed, for many reasons but I would have preferred it.

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    Just now, Kal Rubinson said:

    Here's the thing, though, I care only about the masses if their behavior contributes to what I want and so far......

     

    ...........it has not.  A Micky Mouse upsampling of a old rocker holds no interest for me and the addition of more speakers, particularly height channels, has not yet added significantly to my enjoyment of the the music I listen to, so far.

     

    I mentioned the masses because that's the gist of Pete's argument. 

     

    Rocket Man is the most far from Mickey Mouse I've ever heard. Just because someone is old and a rock star shouldn't mean much. His art is timeless. 

     

     

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    Just now, Kal Rubinson said:

    I agree that it has failed, for many reasons but I would have preferred it.

    Me too.

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    6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    I mentioned the masses because that's the gist of Pete's argument. 

    I understand that we are but the tail of the market and don't get to wag the dog but I always hope that the decisions made by and for the mass market will redound to my own benefit.  Atmos has the potential but, so far, has not had any real impact for me.

    6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Rocket Man is the most far from Mickey Mouse I've ever heard. Just because someone is old and a rock star shouldn't mean much. His art is timeless. 

    I will take your word for it.  I went through an Elton John phase too many decades ago.

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    Chris, sorry if I let my frustrations overrun this thread.
    Atmos is clearly going to be the way to catapult MC to many more people through streaming.
    Streaming is the future - heck, it's the present 😉


    I suppose my point is, as a music loving community, we could do more to open the gates to MC music bliss.
    It would serve the world, as well as ourself, to get as many people on board as possible.
    SACDs, audio DVDs and blurays of MC 'failed' because it was too much hassle.
    I know, I've been doing it - it was beautiful but laborious.

    A good balanced (Atmos) AVR with €/$ 2,5k of Kali Audio monitors and a sub would blow most peoples musical socks off.
    But how are they ever going to know, if we hide away in our ivory tower?
     

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    8 minutes ago, DigiPete said:

    Chris, sorry if I let my frustrations overrun this thread.
    Atmos is clearly going to be the way to catapult MC to many more people through streaming.
    Streaming is the future - heck, it's the present 😉


    I suppose my point is, as a music loving community, we could do more to open the gates to MC music bliss.
    It would serve the world, as well as ourself, to get as many people on board as possible.
    SACDs, audio DVDs and blurays of MC 'failed' because it was too much hassle.
    I know, I've been doing it - it was beautiful but laborious.

    A good balanced (Atmos) AVR with €/$ 2,5k of Kali Audio monitors and a sub would blow most peoples musical socks off.
    But how are they ever going to know, if we hide away in our ivory tower?
     

    No worries Pete. I’m always with you 100%
     

    Finding ways to bring better sound to more people is fantastic. I’m all in. 

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    4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    For all intents and purposes 5.1 is dead if you want to talk about the masses.

    When it comes to the masses.. I don't think any multi-channel format will ever become the norm.

     

    With the exception (because of my influence) of my in-laws and neighbor... In my circle of friends and family.. I have never been to a home that had more than a soundbar to experience "multi-channel" audio. Not one. It's just not that important to them. 😫 Sadly, most people I know just use the speakers built into their televisions.

     

    On the other hand... I think 5.1 is far from being dead... At least for the film industry. Heck, most films (Blu-ray and DVD) are still being released in Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA along with streaming using some form of lossy Dolby Digital... Atmos is barely scratching the surface with UHD.

     

    Thankfully there are enough of us audiophile nuts to keep multi-channel audio on the surface. but are there enough of us to bring immersive audio to the mainstream... I hope so. Selfishly, I'm hoping for the day I can purchase both Hans Zimmer and John Williams (lossless) box collections in a form of immersive audio. Until then, I'll enjoy what's available. And use Auromatic to upmix what's not.

     

    I am very grateful for forums like these. It's wonderful to be able to share our passion for the hobby with other like-minded individuals. I absolutely love this stuff.

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    4 minutes ago, 3dsoundshop said:

    When it comes to the masses.. I don't think any multi-channel format will ever become the norm.

     

    With the exception (because of my influence) of my in-laws and neighbor... In my circle of friends and family.. I have never been to a home that had more than a soundbar to experience "multi-channel" audio. Not one. It's just not that important to them. 😫 Sadly, most people I know just use the speakers built into their televisions.

     

    On the other hand... I think 5.1 is far from being dead... At least for the film industry. Heck, most films (Blu-ray and DVD) are still being released in Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA along with streaming using some form of lossy Dolby Digital... Atmos is barely scratching the surface with UHD.

     

    Thankfully there are enough of us audiophile nuts to keep multi-channel audio on the surface. but are there enough of us to bring immersive audio to the mainstream... I hope so. Selfishly, I'm hoping for the day I can purchase both Hans Zimmer and John Williams (lossless) box collections in a form of immersive audio. Until then, I'll enjoy what's available. And use Auromatic to upmix what's not.

     

    I am very grateful for forums like these. It's wonderful to be able to share our passion for the hobby with other like-minded individuals. I absolutely love this stuff.

    I love this stuff as well. 
     

    Atmos will be the norm, no matter how it’s played back by the consumer. Stereo, headphones, soundbar, 7.1.4, etc… Won’t matter what the end user does because it’s a single deliverable. 

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    10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Atmos will be the norm, no matter how it’s played back by the consumer. Stereo, headphones, soundbar, 7.1.4, etc… Won’t matter what the end user does because it’s a single deliverable. 

    Agreed and, again, that choice is based on convenience and cost.  Same reasons we got 2 channel stereo instead of 3.  Had that been our history, the evolution to multichannel/surround might have been diferent.

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    @The Computer Audiophile I enjoyed the podcast and thank you for the mention!

     

    I have made some progress on my project.  The first steps from a Sonos Soundbar to a Sonos ARC has been very interesting. Both with Music and TV.    I have been enjoying both Apple Music and the Berlin Philharmonic subscription. 

     

    I have a lot of writing to do!

     

    RJF

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