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    The Computer Audiophile

    By The Computer Audiophile •

    Audiophile Style State of the Union

    Over the years the Audiophile Style forum has been an invaluable resource to many audiophiles and music lovers alike. This is all due to the contributions from members of the community from around the world, who freely give their time to help others and enjoy this wonderful shared interest we call audiophilia. Whether one's interests are mainly music or gear or a split between the two, matters not. Audiophile Style is about increasing one's enjoyment of music, gear, and the community in general. Nobody needs more negativity in their lives or more judgement of their personal pursuits. The world is full of that nonsense. Audiophile Style is a place to leave all that behind, to forget about one's mentally or physically draining day, and to immerse oneself in that which has brought joy to so many for so long. 

     

    Recently the scales have tipped a bit too far toward snark, combativeness, imposition, and confrontation. All of this is killing the vibe and the culture of Audiophile Style, pushing it more toward the 4chan of audio rather than a place to learn, share, and have fun. When I don't want to read some threads because I know the usual suspects will be on their high horses, something needs to change. When members of the community can't even have an enjoyable conversation without being rudely interrupted by people with an opposing agenda, something needs to change.

     

    We've had a very limited set of forum rules since our inception in 2007. These rules just keep honest people honest. Others find ways to bend them as far as possible, seeking to impose their own view of how this site should be run and what topics the conversations should include. For the most part, more rules won't change behavior. There are folks on the extreme ends of the audio continuum who just can't live with those who disagree, and that's a problem. 

     

    I've always encouraged people to post whatever opinion they hold or facts they have about all audio topics. However, this has to be done either in its own thread or in a thread where the information is desired. Those on the extreme ends just can't live with this either. When given the opportunity to self-police, the extremists can't stop themselves from posting in topics where the vast majority of people have zero interest in what they have to say. It's the equivalent of walking into a classical music party uninvited and putting on a Rage Against The Machine playlist. Sure, it's fabulous music but the time and place are wrong.  

     

    The bottom line is this, Audiophile Style is about increasing one's enjoyment of this wonderful hobby. I look forward to the 99% of members of this community working toward this goal and having a good time. 

     

     

    What's Changing?

     

    There is a new sub-forum called Objective-Fi. This is the place for objective audio discussions. It will be free from subjectivist appeals to authority, anecdotes, and unscientific experience threads and comments. This will free-up the objective-minded members of this community from going in circles trying to explain why something just can't be, for the 100th time. 

     

    This new sub-forum doesn't mean that the rest of the forum is entirely subjective only. Because audio is an inherently subjective pursuit, it makes no sense to create a subjective-Fi sub-forum equivalent to the Objective-Fi sub-forum either. The reality is that life isn't black & white. The other forum areas will continue on as they've been for years. If there is an objective challenge to one's subjective experience, the comment(s) will be moved to the Objective-Fi sub-forum for the discussion to continue unabated. 

     

    In essence the rules haven't changed, but now there is a place for discussions to be had where people on both sides of an issue can examine it and discuss it without turning everyone off and ruining peoples' days. 

     

    Please remember, the problem isn't what's said, it's the place in which it's said. 


    Thanks to everyone who has provided feedback in an effort to bring the enjoyment and fun back into our pursuit of HiFi and great music. Audiophile Style wouldn't exist without the wonderful members of this community. 

     


    - Chris
     

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    Jud
    37 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

     

    MQA is done. I was thinking of the future.


    Unless @mansr has decided to absent himself from Web audio discussions entirely, his take will still be available to read. Not as convenient as reading it here, I know.

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    lucretius
    12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Why? They are all subjective unless driven at the same time by a robot. Hard to believe you’d be into that “pseudo-objective” clap trap. 

     

    What about those dyno graphs?

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    pkane2001
    21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    I've been down this path countless times, naming brands etc... not going down it again for you to ignore the evidence. Plus, you don't seem to want the information so I will not force it down your throat.

     

    I do want the information. I've yet to see it. Maybe you can give me a link to where you shared it before. Just did a quick search of your posts mentioning Amir. Only one reference to a brand that you claim Amir will not measure... which he measured earlier that same year, before you even posted the accusation. 

     

    Should I be asking this question in the Objective Fi forum to get actual evidence?

     

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    Mercman
    8 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

     

    I do want the information. I've yet to see it. Maybe you can give me a link to where you shared it before. Just did a quick search of your posts mentioning Amir. Only one reference to a brand that you claim Amir will not measure... which he measured earlier that same year, before you even posted the accusation. 

     

    Should I be asking this question in the Objective Fi forum to get actual evidence?

     

    Some folks just can't grasp what all of this is about.

     

    Good job Chris!

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    austinpop
    5 hours ago, Jud said:

    In case you haven't noticed, Chris is kind of at wit's end here, because y'all blew right through the past several ACMs (Asshole Coping Mechanisms). Someone even said "we can be assholes on occasion and you've allowed us to get away with it."


    So true. Chris has given these guys ample opportunities to mend their ways. After that big Forum Guidelines thread, there were a few days of good behavior, and then it was back to the snark.

     

    A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do. 9_9 

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    Iving
    20 minutes ago, austinpop said:


    So true. Chris has given these guys ample opportunities to mend their ways. After that big Forum Guidelines thread, there were a few days of good behavior, and then it was back to the snark.

     

    A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do. 9_9 

     

    yes - remarkable patience, proportionality and fortitude in CC imho

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    RickyV

    This is a sad sad day for AudiophileStyle there are no winners here only losers.

     

    I think this is especially very hard on Chris. The decision to do this must have been a difficult one. But in the end it will all work out well, I am sure. 

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    audiobomber

    I generally respond in the tone of the post I'm responding to, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So if the attitude of a few people improve or they leave, the tone of the site improves. I don't want objectivists or technical experts to leave, but if someone can't be civil, then better they go.

     

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    Cazzesman

    I feel for you Chris.    Being Australian looking in, CA is symptomatic of the current state of the USA.

     

    The man at the top sets the agenda regarding what is exceptable in a polite, civil society.

     

    With your country being run by a narcissistic, petulant, lying, self absorbed 5 year old has provided everyone with the justification to act accordingly.    Civility is in fee fall.   
     

    Opinion becomes fact.   “Many people say” is the go to phrase to justify a stance.     Misinformation is king and finding which way is “up” is harder than ever.   

     

    As was mentioned elsewhere..........if you wouldn’t say the things you write to a persons face, then you need to modify your level of respect.

     

    Just my 2 cents from afar.

     

    Regards Cazzesman
     

     

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    PeterG
    18 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

    Not true at all.  Amir lets people post most anything they like, but they will probably be asked, mostly by members, to supply verifiable confirmation. That IMO is only fair. You can't just make up fake news there and expect to get away with it.

     

    I hope you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Amir the guy who went on an incredible rant about the Schiit Yggdrasil because it did not measure well enough to be as good as the rest of the world believes it to be?  The whole episode seemed like a personal attack.  Regardless of whether the Yggy is a good DAC or not, it was not objective approach, in the common English use of the word, even if he was asserting an "objectivist" position.  So let's not get too fixed on Amir being fair or scientific in his approach

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    PeterG
    17 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:


    It’s going to take some common sense and communication between those who really want to help make it work. If you aren’t up for it, I understand. 

    I don't expect any of my comments to be objectivist. but maybe it would help those who are moved to send them a notification similar to other notifications on post reactions

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    PeterG
    12 hours ago, marce said:

    But it is OK to read the same subjective statement a million times...

    Why do you have to hide behind the teachers legs, provide proof, explanations and fight science with science, because music reproduction is science... Making and creating music is art, capturing, recording and playback is engineering.

    I did not say that, and no I do not think it is helpful for people to repeat things endlessly.  If I wanted to hide behind someone's legs I would have remained silent, or just upvoted others. 

     

    The beginning of your post is the kind of incivility I hope we can get rid of.  Ironically, the end of your post argues for my position that we should ban people not segregate ideas--the music and its reproduction are (should be?) inseparable to enjoyment, are they not?

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    PeterG
    6 hours ago, Jud said:

    Back a few years this all was new enough that I think more of us felt we needed help where we could find it, and had an obligation to provide it if we could. There was more of a sense of being in this together before we all got so damn swaggeringly confident in ourselves.

    YES!!!  In my early years at this, Chris and other posters  on CA were absolutely essential to my ability to put together a decent system.  THANKS TO ALL ADVICE GIVERS OF OLD!!!

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    PeterG
    3 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

    No doubt some will disagree, but MQA just got a huge boost from Audiophile Style.  Gone now is the venue that dared challenge the Old Guard of the Audiophile Elders.  Gone now is the irreverence that made Computer Audiophile Style what it is today.

     

    I understand the business need to bow to the market.  But the "subjectivists" just won the lottery here.  As more time passes, it will become more and more indistinguishable from forums like Hoffman.

     

    A truly sad day.

    Hi Sam,

    I disagree with many of your posts, but at least all the ones I remember were well expressed, and many of those were very interesting.  Interesting enough that I once Googled your name.  I hope you will not be discouraged for long, that you will continue to post, and that you live long and prosper

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    esldude
    5 hours ago, Jud said:

     

    I've seen you being genuinely helpful (and seen you being criticized unfairly for it, and responded to the critics that they were in the wrong, as you may recall). Sincerely hope you won't give up trying.

     

    Saw you disagreed with my other post, or at least some portion of it. I really do think this is a matter of being able to play well with others - that's everyone. I think, very sadly, that we may have shown we can't. I hope everyone here proves me wrong.

    I've not forgotten those times you spoke up for some fairness in considering my posts. 

     

    If it is a matter of being able to play well with others, Chris decided we can't.  So now you won't be allowed to play with others.  If you have certain viewpoints the default position is you'll stick in one 2nd grade sub-forum.  Imagine..... those who attempt to keep to things that follow known science, physics and rational principles disagree with some who spin yarns from the aether.  So we'll keep the aether and offer a special aether free section so as not to upset those not up to speed on the Michelson-Morley results yet. 

     

    So considering Brandolini's law, and how some companies use the Gish Gallop as a marketing method, yes once things are additionally stacked against you, you would only be wise to give up trying in one place and go elsewhere.  Chris has structured things that way now on his forums. 

     

    One need only look at the predecessor he is following at Head Fi.  Now AS is poised to slide all the way to maximal profit with no contrary views possible in the mainstream discussions of the forum.  Head Fi is the largest audio forum on the internet by a good margin.

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    Samuel T Cogley

    At the end of the day, this was a business decision for Chris and nothing more.  "Subjectivists" buy more stuff and are way more influenced by hype and the Audiophile Press.  Chris is just going where the money is.

     

    "it's not personal, it's business"

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    The Computer Audiophile
    4 minutes ago, esldude said:

    One need only look at the predecessor he is following at Head Fi.  Now AS is poised to slide all the way to maximal profit with no contrary views possible in the mainstream discussions of the forum.  Head Fi is the largest audio forum on the internet by a good margin.

    I've always looked at what Jude has done with Head-Fi as a great model. He has a huge audience that has maximized its enjoyment of this wonderful hobby. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that in my book.

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    The Computer Audiophile
    2 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

    At the end of the day, this was a business decision for Chris and nothing more.  "Subjectivists" buy more stuff and are way more influenced by hype and the Audiophile Press.  Chris is just going where the money is.

     

    "it's not personal, it's business"

    Not really Sam. This place has to be enjoyable for me, otherwise it turns into a job that I could get anywhere, but with much less hassle. It wasn't enjoyable for me babysit adults who had every opportunity to curtail their own behavior and follow the well known rules. I could have banned those who couldn't follow the rules, but I opted to give them an opportunity and to give the objective minded ones who do follow the rules a place free from BS. Perhaps we end up in the same position with respect to some people leaving but it isn't about the money. 

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    Samuel T Cogley
    2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    I've always looked at what Jude has done with Head-Fi as a great model. He has a huge audience that has maximized its enjoyment of this wonderful hobby. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that in my book.

     

    Last week, I would not have believed you aspire for AS to be like Head-Fi.  After this weekend, it's still a little shocking, but totally jibes with your new industry-friendly makeover.  I expect to see Scoggins back here any minute now...

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    The Computer Audiophile
    1 minute ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

     

    Last week, I would not have believed you aspire for AS to be like Head-Fi.  After this weekend, it's still a little shocking, but totally jibes with your new industry-friendly makeover.  I expect to see Scoggins back here any minute now...

    Understood. 

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    esldude
    54 minutes ago, PeterG said:

    YES!!!  In my early years at this, Chris and other posters  on CA were absolutely essential to my ability to put together a decent system.  THANKS TO ALL ADVICE GIVERS OF OLD!!!

    Those bygone days were when you asked how to connect something you'd be told use a USB cable meeting spec.  While now the same question with that answer will result in being told you'll need a somewhat expensive cable, and one or two USB cleaners, and maybe some optional power supplies for the cleaners before you can expect good results. 

     

    I learned a lot in those days, now you'll mostly be helped to spend lots of money on dubious gear for some pretty simple setups.

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    The Computer Audiophile
    1 minute ago, esldude said:

    Those bygone days were when you asked how to connect something you'd be told use a USB cable meeting spec.  While now the same question with that answer will result in being told you'll need a somewhat expensive cable, and one or two USB cleaners, and maybe some optional power supplies for the cleaners before you can expect good results. 

     

    I learned a lot in those days, now you'll mostly be helped to spend lots of money on dubious gear for some pretty simple setups.

    You're misremembering things Dennis. The The Synergistic Research Tricon USB cable ($550) was talked about around here two monts after this site started. Not that I'm proud of it, but just want to get the facts out there. 

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    daverich4
    2 hours ago, austinpop said:

     

    A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do. 9_9 


    Any chance that’s a typo and you meant to say...

    A Mansr gotta do what a Mansr gotta do?

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