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    The Computer Audiophile

    By The Computer Audiophile •

    Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res Mess

     


    This morning I've been testing Apple Music's new lossless and Hi-Res offerings on both my iPhone 12 Pro running iOS 14.6 and my Mac Mini (M1) running macOS 11.4. In my tests, I'm only concerned with playing the music bit perfectly, in other words without making any changes to the audio. If Apple Music says it's streaming lossless audio, then I want to stream that audio losslessly, rather than accidentally converting it to lossy AAC or MP3 etc... Whether or not people can hear the difference is a topic for another discussion. I'm just making sure I can play the music in its original form and that Apple is sending true lossless and Hi-Res to my audio devices. 

     


    Let's Dig in


    What is bit perfect and why should I care? In the simplest terms, bit perfect means that the audio hasn't been changed. The music sent, in this case from Apple Music, into the playback device hasn't been altered. The source is what has been delivered to Apple by the record labels. Apple is just the delivery company.

     

    If you care about high quality, getting the lossless streaming you're paying for from Apple Music, Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon Music, etc... then you should care about bit perfect because without it you have no idea what's happening to your audio. If this isn't a concern for you, no worries. 

     


    Testing Methodology 

     

    Device 1
    My Apple iPhone 12 Pro running iOS 14.6 and the Apple Music app. I connected the newest version of the Apple Camera Connection Kit to the iPhone, so I could attach a USB Audi interface, and feed power to the phone and interface. 

     

    Device 2
    Apple Mac Mini (M1) running macOS 11.4, and Apple Pro Display XDR, and USB audio interface connected to the ports on the back of the display. 

     
    I use the following testing methodology to test Apple Music. 

     

    The USB audio interface is a Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB that accepts USB input and outputs audio over AES/EBU or S/PDIF (BNC). 
     
    I use a Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3 that identifies and decodes HDCD on all sample rates from 44.1 up through 192 kHz. When an unaltered HDCD music track is played, the HDCD indicator on the DAC is illuminated. The HDCD flag is on the 16th bit for lossless CD files and the 24th bit for high resolution files. Any alteration, DSP, volume leveling, etc... changes this least significant bit and won't enable the HDCD indicator to illuminate on my DAC. Apple Music's lossless audio that I tested was 16 bit / 44.1 kHa and the Hi-Res audio was both 24 bit / 176.4 kHz and 24 bit / 192 kHz. That's the hardware piece. 
     
    With respect to source files, here's what I do. 
     
    I have a list of roughly ten known HDCD albums (although I could use more if needed). Many of these albums were only released as HDCD encoded CDs/files. There is no alternate lossless version. For example, Reference Recordings only releases CDs that are HDCD encoded. Pearl Jam's Live On Two Legs was only released as an HDCD master for its lossless CD version. 
     
    I set a baseline by playing my own local copy of the albums and make sure the HDCD indicator illuminates. I played some Reference Recordings albums through Apple Music on macOS and made sure the app could handle bit perfect playback. All was good there. On iOS, I used used other apps such as Qobuz, to play the identical music through the identical hardware. All was good through the Qobuz app. Again, there are no alternative versions of these lossless albums. It's the same music on all the services that offer lossless streaming.
     
    Absolutely there are possible holes in my methodology, but I believe I've minimized them as much as possible. If anyone can identify a hole, please let me know and I will retest. 
     

     

    Test Results
     
    On macOS, I found no way to play bit perfect lossless or Hi-Res audio from Apple Music. In addition to a couple other nonsensical issues that I'll get into later, Apple is doing something to the music it streams. 

     

    Test 1, streaming Pearl Jam's Live On Two Legs release I was able to illuminate the HDCD indicator for the first couple seconds of playback. After this, the light went out for good, even if I skipped to the next track. When I clicked the play button to start the entire album over again, the HDCD indicator illuminated again for a few seconds. If I had to guess, I'd say this is because of watermarking mandated by the major record labels. Apple has a perfect copy of the album on its servers, the perfect copy starts, but then something changes in the stream that causes the music to not be bit perfect. I'm open to all input on what this could possibly be, but watermarking is my best educated guess for now. 

     

    Test 2, streaming the Reference Recording's album Exactly Like This from Doug MacLeod, displays different behavior and bolsters my aforementioned watermarking theory. This album, from a very small independent record label that I don't believe watermarks it's music, alters between bit perfect and not bit perfect. Upon playback, the HDCD indicator is on sometimes then off for a period of time, then back on etc... I really don't have a good guess for why this happens. I originally thought maybe an adaptive bit rate issue caused it, but even after downloading the tracks to my device offline and playing them, the problem remained. 

     

    Test 3, streaming the Reference Recording's album Break The Chain from Doug MacLeod produced the identical behavior. The only difference here was that the album was Apple's Hi-Res offering at 24 bit 176.4 kHz. Again, no solid bit perfect playback. Something is happening to the music. 

     

    A note about Apple's Hi-Res offerings that makes this a real mess. On Macs running macOS / OS X, the Apple Music app looks at the sample rate in Audio Midi upon the app's launch. Whatever same rate is set there, is the sample rate that Apple Music will use for playback as long as the app is open. OK, fine you say, Apple Music lossless is probably 16 bit / 44.1 kHz and that can be set in Audio Midi. Sure, now for the mess. Apple Music Hi-Res is be definition not 16 bit / 44.1 kHz. It go up through 24 bit / 192 kHz. OK, you can run through the whole dance closing Apple Music, manually setting the sampan rate in Audio Midi, then reopening Apple Music and off you go. Oh no you can't. Apple Music doesn't tell you what the sample rate of its Hi-Res music albums. Thus, you have no idea at what sample rate to set Audio Midi. 
     

    UPDATE: To find the sample rate of the album and play it correctly you have to play a track, click the info button to reveal the sample rate, change Audio MIDI to correct sample rate, restart Apple Music, play the track again. 

     

    How did I find the same rate? Fortunately, the Apple Music app on iOS has auto sample rate switching, which enabled me to get the rate, then sixth back to my Mac to run the tests. This was good because I could see the bit perfect audio stream for the first few seconds once I had the correct sample rate set. 


    Note: the Qobuz app plays this music bit perfect on my Mac.

     

     

    On iOS, as I just mentioned, we have the high benefit of automatic sample rate switching when playing music in Apple Music. The results for Test 1, 2, and 3 were identical on iOS as they were on macOS. Bit perfect for the first few seconds of major label albums. Bit perfect on and off for Reference recordings' albums. Apple Music on iOS switched between outputting 44.1 to outputting 176.4 without an issue. If only the audio would remain bit perfect during playback, it would be a great solution. 

     

    I will note that the Qobuz iOS app played everything bit perfect, but there needs to be an asterisk. For some reason Qobuz resamples the 176.4 Doug MacLeod album Break The Chain at 192 kHz on iOS rather than 176.4. I checked Neil Young's greatest hits to make sure I cold stream 192 material bit perfectly from Qobuz and succeeded. iOS and iPhones are fully capable of bit perfect audio at 176.4 kHz, so I'm not sure why Qobuz is resampling the RR releases. 

     


    What About mQa?

     

    There is interesting news on this front. Some labels have snuck mQa material into Apple Music just like they have on other services. Users of Apple Music can search for mQa and they'll see some albums such as the Radka Toneff Fairytales album. The albums playback as mQa on a DAC in my system that is a full mQa decoder. 

     

    I checked a number of other albums that have appeared on Tidal as mQa only and didn't find mQa for these releases on Apple Music. 

     

    As readers of Audiophile Style know, I'm no fan of mQa and am very pleased it hasn't made its way into more releases or officially into Apple Music. Those who may be reading this as fans of Apple Music, rather than typical audiophile offerings, and aren't familiar with mQa, can get the gist of it and the company from the following videos.


    Part 1 - https://youtu.be/pRjsu9-Vznc
    Part 2 - https://youtu.be/NHkqWZ9jzA0

     


    Wrap Up

     

    As it stands now, Apple Music's lossless and Hi-Res offerings are a bit of a soup sandwich. You can't really stream the audio without some type of DSP going on that makes the music different from the lossless version on CD and on other lossless services. My guess is digital watermarking. In addition, it's not possible to get a consistent lossless or Hi-Res stream for other music that I tested, such as that from Reference Recordings. When I ran into similar issues with Amazon Music HD, using its apps just like I used the Apple Music apps, I was happy to find the Amazon Music HD streams lossless and Hi-Res through third party devices from Bluesound. Given that Apple doesn't integrate with Bluesound, I can't test this. Apple does integrate with Sonos, but as I found previously (link), the new Sonos Port can't stream bit perfect either, so a test on that platform would be useless. 

     

    I will happily update this article if there are holes in my tests or something else changes. As it stands now, I don't know of any holes and I stand by these conclusions. 

     

     

     

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    The Computer Audiophile
    2 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

    By the way, my next prediction is that Tidal and Qobuz will be out of business within a few short years, especially if the big three do lossless correctly.

    I hope you're incorrect, but I can see the realities as well. 

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    Rsbrsvp
    1 minute ago, Daren F said:

     

    Using the same logic, anyone with amazon music who plays a FLAC file on Amazon and the same file on Qobuz in FLAC bit perfect will hear that the Qobuz is better. So, something is lost somewhere.

     

    Amazon, Apple and MQA all use the marketing definition of lossless.

    Not sure it means information was lost.  Perhaps- modified.  Perhaps not delivered by my network in the same way.

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    Rsbrsvp

    If the big three do lossless as bit perfect, Tidal and Qobuz MUST cut their price to $10 a month or they are gone.

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    Rsbrsvp

    By the way- If I were a marketing consultant to the big three I would tell them- do you guys want to double your subscribers overnight?

     

    Just add bit perfect exclusive mode and all of Tidal and Qobuz subscribers are yours within days.  

     

    For this reason alone the big three should get this bit perfect thing right.  It is worth a fortune to them.

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    Daren F
    31 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

    By the way- If I were a marketing consultant to the big three I would tell them- do you guys want to double your subscribers overnight?

     

    Just add bit perfect exclusive mode and all of Tidal and Qobuz subscribers are yours within days.  

     

    For this reason alone the big three should get this bit perfect thing right.  It is worth a fortune to them.

     

    A good portion of Tidal and Qobuz subscribers do so because of their integration with Roon.

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    Rsbrsvp

    OK- that's fair.  So they will loose half their customers to the big three if they get bit perfect right.  If the big three bring in Roon, Audrivana, ect, then thy get all of their customers.

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    Richard Dale
    1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

    By the way, my next prediction is that Tidal and Qobuz will be out of business within a few short years, especially if the big three do lossless correctly.

    Qobuz has a good understanding HiFi/Audiophile customers such as myself, and I’m a happy subscriber to the top tier service. Apple has no understanding of this market, and serving that market consists of a lot more than ‘doing lossless correctly’. I own Apple products, but I’m never going to use their music services.

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    Rsbrsvp

    To tell you the truth,

     

    I would never even consider Apple, Amazon, or Spotify over Qobuz if it were not for one problem.  I listen to modern genres and Qobuz has less than half of the music I want to listen to.

     

    So for me- the opposite is true.  Even if the big three don't get bit perfect correct and don't understand audiophiles, I need to hear the music I like or it is worth nothing to me.

     

    I find that hardware improvements like USB regenerators, OXCO clocks, my etherregen, ultra low noise power supplies and others along with software enhancements like "audiophile optimizer", "Fidilizer" etc... get this lossless although non bit perfect streaming so so good- that I do not feel I am lacking much.....  

     

    If Qobuz had my music, I would be there tomorrow- period....

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    wklie
    12 hours ago, vortecjr said:

    I’m going to test Shairport-sync with stdout in the next couple days.

     

    Yes, please do.

     

    stdout avoids the feature of stuffing in shairport-sync.  Related settings including disable synchronization, drift tolerance, etc. may impact bit perfect delivery.

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    Geoffrey Armstrong

    Thanks Chris for providing a great service to us with this bit-perfect test, as you did previously with Amazon HD.

     

    Your article and the discussion seem to revolve mainly around streaming lossless from Apple Music, which is understandable. I think it's also interesting to look deeper into what happens when you attempt to purchase and download lossless music from, what is still referred to as the iTunes Store.

     

    I purchased the first track from Miles Davis's Kind of Blue, "So what". It showed up as lossless and this is while I had the option; "Download Dolby Atmos" checked in the Music app's General prefs.

     

    The Miles Davis Album showed up as a "lossless"; but not a Spatial Audio album in the store.

     

    What I got when I downloaded this track was a a file that appears within the "Apple Music" folder with an extension of .movpkg

     

    This is actually a folder and when you right click on it and choose "Show package contents" you see a list of files. Some of these files end in the extension .frag

     

    It is all of these files taken together which make up the actual lossless music file. Could this be why you experienced the HDCD light coming on and turning off, I wonder?

     

    I've seen posts on Reddit where some folks tried to figure out ways to concatenate these .frag files together into the single music file.

     

    It appears though they are also encrypted. So any attempt to concatenate them together and/or use ffmpeg to convert the result of those concatenated files to a single .mp4 file, have only resulted in a file which plays as silence.

     

    Now, I don't want to get into any attempts to do this, or remove encryption from these files; but the sad fact of the matter appears to be, that Apple have re-introduced DRM into these lossless versions of the files.

     

    Interestingly when I unchecked the "Download Dolby Atmos" option in the Music app, and attempted to purchase the second track, "Freddie Freeloader" from the iTunes store, I now got an AAC .m4a 256 kbps lossy file. So it appears that it's only by checking this option that you can download a file in lossless form, and remember, this is not an Atmos recording. I confirmed by re-checking the Atmos option and downloading "Freddie Freeloader" again and got the .movpkg encrypted (and fragmented file).

     

    So this is sad news. From memory, Apple removed DRM protection for purchases of music from the iTunes store back in 2009. I was hoping the introduction of lossless from Apple would allow us to purchase and download lossless music from Apple, which we would then be free to play through any player of our choosing. Something we've been able to do from Qobuz from the beginning.

     

    Apple have re-introduced DRM through the back door of lossless/Dolby Atmos, and the only player you'll be able to play them with, is Apple's own Music App.

     

    I believe it must be these same .movpkg files that are streamed via HLS, I believe, when you use the Apple Music streaming service, and these should also stream via their web app, I guess, though I haven't tried it.

     

    It is understandable that the files from Apple Music streaming would be encrypted; but I do wish this wasn't the case for purchases. I would also like to see options for purchases from Apple; just as we have on Qobuz. These could be Apple Lossless, Dolby Atmos or perhaps still AAC at 256 kbps at a lower price.

     

    I'm inclined to be generous to Apple here, as they are in a period of transition, and I hold out hope that one day we'll be able to purchase and download files from the iTunes Store in Apple Lossless format ,as well as, download all our "matched" files from our iCloud Library (formerly iTunes Match), in Apple Lossless format, and play them back however we wish.

     

    Apple; are you listening to us, as we try to listen to you!

     

     

    Screenshot 2021-06-23 at 09.54.28.png

    Screenshot 2021-06-23 at 10.02.17.png

     

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    Marco Klobas

    Apple Music as a subscription always had DRM even before the lossless introduction. Purchases don't have DRM. Apple sells only AAC, though.

     

    Dolby Atmos is AAC. I think Apple decided to keep Dolby Atmos in AAC to reduce bandwidth. I'm not a Dolby expert. I see that it can carry up to 128 channels.

    I've downloaded on my Mac a lossless / Dolby Atmos track.

    The .movpkg file package contains a subfolder Data. The .data file inside it contains, among other things, an index of the various versions (emphasis is mine to spot easily main informations):

    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-256-binaural",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/BINAURAL",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-256-downmix",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/DOWNMIX",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-256",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-HE-stereo-64",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-HE-stereo-64-binaural",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/BINAURAL",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-HE-stereo-64-downmix",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/DOWNMIX",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-128",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-128-binaural",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/BINAURAL",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-stereo-128-downmix",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2/-/DOWNMIX",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-alac-stereo-44100-24",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="2",NAME="songEnhanced",SAMPLE-RATE=44100,BIT-DEPTH=24
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-atmos-2448",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="16/JOC",NAME="songEnhanced"
    #EXT-X-MEDIA:TYPE=AUDIO,GROUP-ID="audio-atmos-2768",AUTOSELECT=YES,CHANNELS="16/JOC",NAME="songEnhanced"

    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=264995,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=264995,BANDWIDTH=267287,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="d8cb7044e68ba2036c03274d24e70ef6a1c6375b35fce16fae5632f4070007d5",AUDIO="audio-stereo-256-binaural"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr256_bm.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=260511,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=260511,BANDWIDTH=271347,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="eac10af3428251ee2f8c056eb966570d813b967fd5027667c83bf865953a772c",AUDIO="audio-stereo-256-downmix"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr256_dm.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=259294,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=259294,BANDWIDTH=268186,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="1098626e2bc698d3fea380193f55075503656719bdbd2e09647c2ee7be8ae66b",AUDIO="audio-stereo-256"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr256.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=70918,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=70918,BANDWIDTH=75373,CODECS="mp4a.40.5",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="7f82811019138e2e2c0dcb6d6ae14ee0bb30d90dba7831696b9260759d814dfe",AUDIO="audio-HE-stereo-64"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr64.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=74656,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=74656,BANDWIDTH=76988,CODECS="mp4a.40.5",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="ee326e45b1d644ad57f56a20971eca4c967802c57db831bef805ffa4ae30c4d1",AUDIO="audio-HE-stereo-64-binaural"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr64_bm.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=71685,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=71685,BANDWIDTH=77809,CODECS="mp4a.40.5",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="b24912204d3bd110e11669069ed0f3d9eaa20ecdadd241cbaba7d58ce284ea17",AUDIO="audio-HE-stereo-64-downmix"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr64_dm.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=132080,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=132080,BANDWIDTH=139028,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="dfb08389c21b5b8cff34ac9c3ff2ab65cd0eb4ab896eecde483241dab02604db",AUDIO="audio-stereo-128"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr128.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=134888,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=134888,BANDWIDTH=137584,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="d68193e91e715e107dd1b1d76e3779a57b67c4f7ea67c909510add1cb9e23e95",AUDIO="audio-stereo-128-binaural"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr128_bm.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=131847,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=131847,BANDWIDTH=137378,CODECS="mp4a.40.2",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="2659ce21a0707f412ce382b2c096554c6443d3beb1c51948401e48160d591963",AUDIO="audio-stereo-128-downmix"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr128_dm.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=1650502,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=1650502,BANDWIDTH=1745984,CODECS="alac",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="561e16644b039475f6a2aa0739a2281398f639ee7934180c027ec4042f1bbee8",AUDIO="audio-alac-stereo-44100-24"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr2116.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=450221,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=450221,BANDWIDTH=450191,CODECS="ec-3",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="5ac776f49c9709c22da6c83f603d6354be78b352e9ae3122f6b2043953319443",AUDIO="audio-atmos-2448"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr2448.m3u8
    #EXT-X-STREAM-INF:AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=770212,_AVG-BANDWIDTH=770212,BANDWIDTH=770191,CODECS="ec-3",STABLE-VARIANT-ID="bb1ee4d3bea1c3fb25f0795af98d2b9a25825c28bcab87b05ac383062aee8ab0",AUDIO="audio-atmos-2768"
    P293742664_A1450330590_audio_en_gr2768.m3u8

    The codecs of the two Atmos versions are marked as EC-3 which is a lossy format. The only ALAC version is the 44.1 kHz/24 bit.

    I've downloaded then another song from another album which isn't Dolby Atmos. It contains of course only AAC and ALAC versions.

     

    HLS, as you said, it's an audio/video streaming format (.m3u8) composed by chunks (fragments). I guess that if you disable Dolby Atmos in Music preferences, then the download provides a regular .m4a files instead of .movpkg (always with DRM of course).

     

    Edit: I just read that you have already tested the "disable Dolby Atmos" thing to check how it changes the download.

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    Geoffrey Armstrong

    “Apple sells only AAC, though.”

     

    Well it’s also selling these HLS files (.movpgk) if you have Download Dolby Atmos turned on.

     

    These should stream as lossless local files to an appropriate DAC, I believe,

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    Marco Klobas

    You're right. It's a new "thing" that Apple introduced. It surprised me.

     

    I'm now afraid – as it seems to me, you are – that Dolby Atmos it's a sort of Trojan horse to reintroduce DRM.

     

    I rarely purchased music from Apple because I prefer lossless files. Now with this HLS trick it's even less attracting.

     

    I agree: it'd be nice if Apple provided an option to purchase ALAC music.

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    Marco Klobas

    Correct me if I'm wrong, @Geoffrey Armstrong.

     

    A quick recap:

    Non Dolby Atmos purchase + "Download Dolby Atmos" unchecked = lossy m4a without DRM

    Non Dolby Atmos purchase + "Download Dolby Atmos" checked = movpkg package with DRM containing lossless and lossy m4a

    Dolby Atmos purchase + "Download Dolby Atmos" checked = movpkg package with DRM containing lossless, lossy m4a and Dolby Atmos

     

     

     

     

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    Geoffrey Armstrong
    19 minutes ago, Marco Klobas said:

    Correct me if I'm wrong, @Geoffrey Armstrong.

     

    A quick recap:

    Non Dolby Atmos purchase + "Download Dolby Atmos" unchecked = lossy m4a without DRM

    Non Dolby Atmos purchase + "Download Dolby Atmos" checked = movpkg package with DRM containing lossless and lossy m4a

    Dolby Atmos purchase + "Download Dolby Atmos" checked = movpkg package with DRM containing lossless, lossy m4a and Dolby Atmos

     

     

     

     

    You are correct as far as my understanding goes, yes.

     

     

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    Marco Klobas
    48 minutes ago, Geoffrey Armstrong said:

    You are correct as far as my understanding goes, yes.

     

    Thanks.

     

    Basically, the information that spread when Apple Music lossless launched claiming that purchases aren't lossless isn't correct (DRM aside).

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    charlesphoto
    5 hours ago, Geoffrey Armstrong said:

    Something we've been able to do from Qobuz from the beginning.

     

     

     

    There's the answer right there. Why the sudden need to download albums from Apple? Qobuz works - just use it. Apple doesn't need any more of our $$ - the Cayman Island banks are full. 

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    Geoffrey Armstrong

    I think it comes down to the issue of whether or not you "own" media which you purchase and what exactly you're at liberty to do with it. When you purchase a movie on disc, of course you don't own the media, the studio (or whoever) does. The same with music. You are at liberty to play it on whichever device you wish though, … and when you purchase a CD or Vinyl LP, nobody dictates which CD player or Turntable you have to play it on.

     

    Apple on the other hand is restricting your ability of playing back Lossless purchases to the Apple Music app. So the situation is no different to streaming that same music.

     

    No incentive to purchase then!

     

    … and although Apple AAC 256 KBPS was always touted as all you need, and as good as it gets, the record labels together with Apple, don't seem to value it as highly as Lossless, since they are not placing those restrictions on purchased AAC 256 KBPS files.

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    new_media

    Apple’s press releases clearly stated that they would only be selling AAC versions and that lossless and spatial audio would be streaming only. Lossless/ALAC tracks download in the same .movpkg format.

     

    Streaming files on Apple Music have always had DRM, so they are not reintroducing it. It has always been there. Every streaming service uses DRM, which I am sure the labels insist on.

     

    I see no indication that Apple is trying to reintroduce DRM for purchased music. They were very clear that the music store would not be selling lossless or spatial audio versions.

     

    I do think that Apple is deliberately sabotaging music purchases in favor of streaming and that they will likely kill the music store in the not-too-distant future. But honestly, who buys music from them anymore anyway?

     

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    Geoffrey Armstrong
    50 minutes ago, new_media said:

    Apple’s press releases clearly stated that they would only be selling AAC versions and that lossless and spatial audio would be streaming only. Lossless/ALAC tracks download in the same .movpkg format.

     

    Streaming files on Apple Music have always had DRM, so they are not reintroducing it. It has always been there. Every streaming service uses DRM, which I am sure the labels insist on.

     

    I see no indication that Apple is trying to reintroduce DRM for purchased music. They were very clear that the music store would not be selling lossless or spatial audio versions.

     

    I do think that Apple is deliberately sabotaging music purchases in favor of streaming and that they will likely kill the music store in the not-too-distant future. But honestly, who buys music from them anymore anyway?

     

    I admit, I didn't read those press releases. So thanks for clarifying that. What's still confusing to me is that I was able to purchase and download a .movpkg file, and I believe I can stream that to a suitable DAC locally. In other words, I'm not forced to stream it, and can play it offline, without an internet connection, I believe. I haven't tried that though, admittedly.

     

    If Apple will only sell AAC versions, then why didn't the iTunes Store only allow me to purchase and download the AAC version?

     

    In any case I think the structure of those HLS/movpkg files may explain why Chris had those experiences with the HDCD light going on and off periodically, since the same files are obviously used for pure streaming.

     

    That's the main point I wanted to make.

    Screenshot 2021-06-23 at 16.56.49.png

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    MikeyFresh
    1 hour ago, new_media said:

    I do think that Apple is deliberately sabotaging music purchases in favor of streaming and that they will likely kill the music store in the not-too-distant future. But honestly, who buys music from them anymore anyway?

    Absolutely, and I for one never bought any music from Apple, only from HDtracks, ProStudioMasters, etc... and sadly, SuperHiRez and Pono too (RIP).

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    new_media
    57 minutes ago, Geoffrey Armstrong said:

    I admit, I didn't read those press releases. So thanks for clarifying that. What's still confusing to me is that I was able to purchase and download a .movpkg file, and I believe I can stream that to a suitable DAC locally. In other words, I'm not forced to stream it, and can play it offline, without an internet connection, I believe. I haven't tried that though, admittedly.

     

    If Apple will only sell AAC versions, then why didn't the iTunes Store only allow me to purchase and download the AAC version?

     

    In any case I think the structure of those HLS/movpkg files may explain why Chris had those experiences with the HDCD light going on and off periodically, since the same files are obviously used for pure streaming.

     

    That's the main point I wanted to make.

     

    I tried purchasing a track just to see what would happen, and it downloaded as a (DRM-free) 256 Kbps AAC, so it is interesting that yours downloaded as a hi-res file.

     

    But, if you have an Apple Music subscription, you don't need to purchase tracks to download them for local playback. I've added plenty of albums to my library through the streaming service, and I am able to download them in lossless, hi-res, and Atmos.

     

    I certainly hope that Apple has not chosen a format that isn't capable of being streamed bit-perfect. I believe that other streaming services stream fragmented files, but they can be reassembled and still achieve lossless/bit-perfect?

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    Geoffrey Armstrong
    9 minutes ago, new_media said:

     

    I tried purchasing a track just to see what would happen, and it downloaded as a (DRM-free) 256 Kbps AAC, so it is interesting that yours downloaded as a hi-res file.

     

    But, if you have an Apple Music subscription, you don't need to purchase tracks to download them for local playback. I've added plenty of albums to my library through the streaming service, and I am able to download them in lossless, hi-res, and Atmos.

     

    I certainly hope that Apple has not chosen a format that isn't capable of being streamed bit-perfect. I believe that other streaming services stream fragmented files, but they can be reassembled and still achieve lossless/bit-perfect?

    Thanks for that. It shows just how much I've been using iTunes/Music app over the last few years. I'm out of touch 🙄

     

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    Marco Klobas

    @Geoffrey Armstrong So, when you downloaded your purchased song, you actually downloaded an Apple Music offline file.

     

    How do you differentiate the two things after a purchase?

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    Geoffrey Armstrong
    8 minutes ago, Marco Klobas said:

    @Geoffrey Armstrong So, when you downloaded your purchased song, you actually downloaded an Apple Music offline file.

     

    How do you differentiate the two things after a purchase?

    I understand where you're coming from. If you have an Apple Subscription you don't need to purchase. I get that (now). If you look at the image I attached though, you will see the iCloud status is "Purchased". I would think if I just added it from the iTunes Store to my library without purchasing, I would expect the status to be "Subscription". I also need to check if they billed me.

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